What's new
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

Josh Rosen stirring up things

I think people are completely misinterpreting his full statements. I believe his point is that there are kids in school who are only there as a path to the NFL- there is no other path. For many, many football players getting a free education is a good trade-off for the work they put in, but for some school is completely superfluous. That leads to things like General Education majors, PE majors, tutors who "help" write term papers, etc. which scandalize the institutions and in some sense devalue degrees from those institutions.

Should there be a path to the NFL that doesn't involve going to a university to play football?

I think it's a fair question to ask.
 
I think people are completely misinterpreting his full statements. I believe his point is that there are kids in school who are only there as a path to the NFL- there is no other path. For many, many football players getting a free education is a good trade-off for the work they put in, but for some school is completely superfluous. That leads to things like General Education majors, PE majors, tutors who "help" write term papers, etc. which scandalize the institutions and in some sense devalue degrees from those institutions.

Should there be a path to the NFL that doesn't involve going to a university to play football?

I think it's a fair question to ask.

Very fair question to ask. Loved the article.
 
I think people are completely misinterpreting his full statements. I believe his point is that there are kids in school who are only there as a path to the NFL- there is no other path. For many, many football players getting a free education is a good trade-off for the work they put in, but for some school is completely superfluous. That leads to things like General Education majors, PE majors, tutors who "help" write term papers, etc. which scandalize the institutions and in some sense devalue degrees from those institutions.

Should there be a path to the NFL that doesn't involve going to a university to play football?

I think it's a fair question to ask.
Maybe instead of telling these kids it is okay to just focus on football there should be a larger point to be more well rounded and have a desire to learn/better yourself because football never lasts forever. Instead people give them the excuse that if they don't succeed at school that is fine, just don't go. I would prefer the first option but that is just me.

Unfortunately when kids are "given" something, like a scholarship, they take it for granted and trash it when a lot of them are making similar money to NFL practice squad guys and more than the average graduate at their school (based on about $55,000 it takes to go to a place like CU).

To top it all off this comes from a spoiled, entitled kid like Rosen so it just sort of comes across as complaining rather than trying to start a conversation. Obviously I am admitting my personal bias with that so part of my interpretation of his comments is wrong, but still.
 
Be careful what you wish for with the NFL farm system talk. Personally, I'd prefer college football remain relevant and not something akin to college baseball or college hockey. Both of which are entertaining, but don't have nearly the same following.
 
Umm he can't go to class and not do a damn thing? I'm sure he probably already does and gets away with it. Quit crying.
 
Maybe instead of telling these kids it is okay to just focus on football there should be a larger point to be more well rounded and have a desire to learn/better yourself because football never lasts forever. Instead people give them the excuse that if they don't succeed at school that is fine, just don't go. I would prefer the first option but that is just me.

Unfortunately when kids are "given" something, like a scholarship, they take it for granted and trash it when a lot of them are making similar money to NFL practice squad guys and more than the average graduate at their school (based on about $55,000 it takes to go to a place like CU).

To top it all off this comes from a spoiled, entitled kid like Rosen so it just sort of comes across as complaining rather than trying to start a conversation. Obviously I am admitting my personal bias with that so part of my interpretation of his comments is wrong, but still.

To start with I don't think it is fair to say that a kid is "given" a scholarship, very few people are so naturally talented that they don't have to work their butts off to earn that scholarship and then work their butts off to keep it.

The issue comes with how they see it and what they do with it. I have heard recruits and players talk about how HCMM puts an emphasis on getting a degree, can't remember much of that same sentiment coming out of kids about Bama or FSU. At some schools the pitch to recruits, every recruit, is that we can make you an NFL player, that is where the focus is.

We can be certain that a lot of kids who go to USC or Oregon look at how many draft picks they had in prior years but it does seem that the PAC12 in general does a better job of trying to give kids the opportunity to be student-athletes instead of just players.

Rosen can come across as an elitist punk but I think beyond the surface he is a pretty smart guy and he has taken the opportunities he has and worked hard to take advantage of them. The point might seem more appropriate coming from some poor kid from the ghetto but that doesn't mean that Rosen can't or shouldn't be making it. His background and position make it more significant because he doesn't have to be the one doing it.

As far as an alternate path to the NFL in some cases it may make sense. As we have discussed in other forums on this board not every kid is cut out for the traditional college path. A lot of good athletes never make it into college ball (and almost all of these don't make it into the pros) because they don't qualify academically.

I don't think the alternate pro league will make it, football is much to expensive to operate and make a profit without a strong market for it.

What I could see potentially happening which would benefit both the NFL and the kids is the forming of a kind of super JUCO league. A small number of JUCOs that play each other at a very high level of competition. Players could either RS and spend 3 years there or do a combination of two years at the school and spend a season working in a developmental gym like McChesneys sixzero to prepare for the draft and NFL camp.

Instead of taking classes toward a degree that they have no intention of completing and may not have the academic skill and desire to pass they could do their coursework in a trade which would give them a quality option should as it does for most, football not work out supporting them the rest of their lives.
 
Most people in college can't fulfill their full potential though, it's not like athletes are the only ones who have other obligations limiting their commitment. Seems like certain kids value different parts of being a student athlete and act accordingly, not that it is some impossible situation to navigate.

It's a valuable point to make. The expectation to work more than full time is damaging to individuals and as a necessary extension damaging to the society constructed of those individuals. I'm 34, so depending on who you ask I'm a millenial, I'm proud of millenials challenging the conventional definitions of an appropriate work schedule and ideal work ethic.

You can call me lazy if you want. I'm saying that the work I had to do to prove I was worthy of admission to certain segments of professional society was counter-productive. When I slept on the floor of a research lab and showered at the campus rec center and made multiple trips between class, off-campus work, and on-campus unpaid internships without seeing the inside of my own house I was navigating a situation that was not impossible; but it was foolish.
 
He comes across pretty whiney in that article. The NCAA limits sports to 20 hours per week, so essentially he is complaining about going to school and having a part time job. Then he gets the benefits of tutors and cooks, which the majority of college kids outside of their freshman year never see. There are lots of people that are going to school and working jobs to pay for school or their family and they manage to survive just fine even without a hot tub in their dorm room.
 
To start with I don't think it is fair to say that a kid is "given" a scholarship, very few people are so naturally talented that they don't have to work their butts off to earn that scholarship and then work their butts off to keep it.

The issue comes with how they see it and what they do with it. I have heard recruits and players talk about how HCMM puts an emphasis on getting a degree, can't remember much of that same sentiment coming out of kids about Bama or FSU. At some schools the pitch to recruits, every recruit, is that we can make you an NFL player, that is where the focus is.

We can be certain that a lot of kids who go to USC or Oregon look at how many draft picks they had in prior years but it does seem that the PAC12 in general does a better job of trying to give kids the opportunity to be student-athletes instead of just players.

Rosen can come across as an elitist punk but I think beyond the surface he is a pretty smart guy and he has taken the opportunities he has and worked hard to take advantage of them. The point might seem more appropriate coming from some poor kid from the ghetto but that doesn't mean that Rosen can't or shouldn't be making it. His background and position make it more significant because he doesn't have to be the one doing it.

As far as an alternate path to the NFL in some cases it may make sense. As we have discussed in other forums on this board not every kid is cut out for the traditional college path. A lot of good athletes never make it into college ball (and almost all of these don't make it into the pros) because they don't qualify academically.

I don't think the alternate pro league will make it, football is much to expensive to operate and make a profit without a strong market for it.

What I could see potentially happening which would benefit both the NFL and the kids is the forming of a kind of super JUCO league. A small number of JUCOs that play each other at a very high level of competition. Players could either RS and spend 3 years there or do a combination of two years at the school and spend a season working in a developmental gym like McChesneys sixzero to prepare for the draft and NFL camp.

Instead of taking classes toward a degree that they have no intention of completing and may not have the academic skill and desire to pass they could do their coursework in a trade which would give them a quality option should as it does for most, football not work out supporting them the rest of their lives.
Forget all the minor league talk. Not gonna happen. What should happen, though, is for the NFL to 1) eliminate the age restriction on entering the draft; and, 2) expand its practice squad rosters.

Right now, practice squads are 10 men. They make around $7k a week. Figure 18 weeks. 18 x 7000 x 10 = $1,260,000

The NFL could easily triple that to have 30 man practice squads. And I believe every owner would think it was a great investment of $2.5M to have better practices, more depth/insurance against injury and more opportunity to do player development within the system.
 
To start with I don't think it is fair to say that a kid is "given" a scholarship, very few people are so naturally talented that they don't have to work their butts off to earn that scholarship and then work their butts off to keep it.

The issue comes with how they see it and what they do with it. I have heard recruits and players talk about how HCMM puts an emphasis on getting a degree, can't remember much of that same sentiment coming out of kids about Bama or FSU. At some schools the pitch to recruits, every recruit, is that we can make you an NFL player, that is where the focus is.

We can be certain that a lot of kids who go to USC or Oregon look at how many draft picks they had in prior years but it does seem that the PAC12 in general does a better job of trying to give kids the opportunity to be student-athletes instead of just players.

Rosen can come across as an elitist punk but I think beyond the surface he is a pretty smart guy and he has taken the opportunities he has and worked hard to take advantage of them. The point might seem more appropriate coming from some poor kid from the ghetto but that doesn't mean that Rosen can't or shouldn't be making it. His background and position make it more significant because he doesn't have to be the one doing it.

As far as an alternate path to the NFL in some cases it may make sense. As we have discussed in other forums on this board not every kid is cut out for the traditional college path. A lot of good athletes never make it into college ball (and almost all of these don't make it into the pros) because they don't qualify academically.

I don't think the alternate pro league will make it, football is much to expensive to operate and make a profit without a strong market for it.

What I could see potentially happening which would benefit both the NFL and the kids is the forming of a kind of super JUCO league. A small number of JUCOs that play each other at a very high level of competition. Players could either RS and spend 3 years there or do a combination of two years at the school and spend a season working in a developmental gym like McChesneys sixzero to prepare for the draft and NFL camp.

Instead of taking classes toward a degree that they have no intention of completing and may not have the academic skill and desire to pass they could do their coursework in a trade which would give them a quality option should as it does for most, football not work out supporting them the rest of their lives.
That is sort of what I was implying when I said "given," not that they don't deserve or earn it just that when you don't deal with the financial side of most of what you are getting, or have no idea what that value really is then it isn't going to be worth nearly as much to you. Similar to when training table was taken away a couple of weeks ago, do you think any of those kids knew the school was getting charged $20 bucks a player for a meal? That is a **** load of money. Do you think these kids realize how much money a tuition check for $32,000 really is? Most parents work their entire lives to save money for their kids education and can't save that much. They don't but they are definitely young. The whole conversation changes when they leave college as it should.
 
It's a valuable point to make. The expectation to work more than full time is damaging to individuals and as a necessary extension damaging to the society constructed of those individuals. I'm 34, so depending on who you ask I'm a millenial, I'm proud of millenials challenging the conventional definitions of an appropriate work schedule and ideal work ethic.

You can call me lazy if you want. I'm saying that the work I had to do to prove I was worthy of admission to certain segments of professional society was counter-productive. When I slept on the floor of a research lab and showered at the campus rec center and made multiple trips between class, off-campus work, and on-campus unpaid internships without seeing the inside of my own house I was navigating a situation that was not impossible; but it was foolish.
Well I would argue that the concept that full time is 40 hours a week is a load of **** but maybe we just disagree here. It is fine to sit back and say I don't want to work that much but don't expect to be paid the same amount of money as people before you.
 
It is completely ridiculous, unfair, inefficient, etc. to force people to attend college in order to pursue their completely unrelated professional objectives for the sake of entertaining and enriching others. A sham, basically. Moreover, it is a tough sell from my point of view that the promotion of big business athletics is related to the purpose of a university.

This is compounded by the fact that seem people are simply not intellectually suited for academic work.
 
Well I would argue that the concept that full time is 40 hours a week is a load of **** but maybe we just disagree here. It is fine to sit back and say I don't want to work that much but don't expect to be paid the same amount of money as people before you.

This is a good read

This is something business first learned a long time ago. In the 19th century, when organized labor first compelled factory owners to limit workdays to 10 (and then eight) hours, management was surprised to discover that output actually increased – and that expensive mistakes and accidents decreased. This is an experiment that Harvard Business School’s Leslie Perlow and Jessica Porter repeated over a century later with knowledge workers. It still held true. Predictable, required time off (like nights and weekends) actually made teams of consultants more productive.

I think people should be paid enough to have an appropriate quality of life and hours on the clock really shouldn't be the primary determinant of what quality of life members of a society should experience.
 
It is completely ridiculous, unfair, inefficient, etc. to force people to attend college in order to pursue their completely unrelated professional objectives for the sake of entertaining and enriching others. A sham, basically. Moreover, it is a tough sell from my point of view that the promotion of big business athletics is related to the purpose of a university.

This is compounded by the fact that seem people are simply not intellectually suited for academic work.
Why are you even here?
 
He comes across pretty whiney in that article. The NCAA limits sports to 20 hours per week, so essentially he is complaining about going to school and having a part time job. Then he gets the benefits of tutors and cooks, which the majority of college kids outside of their freshman year never see. There are lots of people that are going to school and working jobs to pay for school or their family and they manage to survive just fine even without a hot tub in their dorm room.

That 20 hours is organized official in practice time. It doesn't include film study both individual and by position group, lifting and conditioning time, training room time, locker room time, travel time involved with games, media time (significant for a guy like Rosen,) and a whole bunch of other things that go into being a D1 athlete. It is way more than a part-time job.

Take advantage and you get a degree and no debt which is huge. His point though deals with those schools in the system that make attaining or excelling at that degree difficult and that is a legitimate point.
 
Forget all the minor league talk. Not gonna happen. What should happen, though, is for the NFL to 1) eliminate the age restriction on entering the draft; and, 2) expand its practice squad rosters.

Right now, practice squads are 10 men. They make around $7k a week. Figure 18 weeks. 18 x 7000 x 10 = $1,260,000

The NFL could easily triple that to have 30 man practice squads. And I believe every owner would think it was a great investment of $2.5M to have better practices, more depth/insurance against injury and more opportunity to do player development within the system.
Sorry but I disagree with this one. Football isn't basketball or baseball. Hell they'll get a payday but might be the only one they get. Only so many Adrian Peterson types on Earth.
 
A developmental league can work. I think people would attend those games as lower priced alternatives to the NFL. Obviously it wouldn't be good for college football, but it's likely more fair to the players.
 
A developmental league can work. I think people would attend those games as lower priced alternatives to the NFL. Obviously it wouldn't be good for college football, but it's likely more fair to the players.
Probably wouldn't change college football too much. They still provide the money, fan bases, infrastructure and for 95% of the players a way to make money.
 
I don't understand why so many people seem so interested in an NFL developmental league. Such an arrangement could only hurt college football. I figured we were all college football fans here. This is a very odd discussion.
 
I don't understand why so many people seem so interested in an NFL developmental league. Such an arrangement could only hurt college football. I figured we were all college football fans here. This is a very odd discussion.
agree. It would ruin college football IMO. The farm league would get all the 5*'s and college football would get all the Rudys.
 
Be careful what you wish for with the NFL farm system talk. Personally, I'd prefer college football remain relevant and not something akin to college baseball or college hockey. Both of which are entertaining, but don't have nearly the same following.
Unless we run in to a situation where so many colleges drop football that the NFL feels the quality of their product is diminishing and they need to do something radical to improve it, the conversation is a total non-starter. The NFL LOVES this set up where the existing farm system is completely free.

In other words, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
I'm not so much worried about it as I'm perplexed at the eager acceptance and outright cheerleading for such an arrangement among supposed college football fans.
 
I am not sure that the entire interview was all that great, but there was one excellent point he made: yeah, most of these kids would not otherwise be in college, but it is a great opportunity. Unfortunately, a lot of kids waste that opportunity to focus on getting ready for the NFL when the vast majority of them will never play a down in the NFL, much less make a living from it.

That being the case, it should be a incumbent on the institution that is making money off of the efforts of all of those athletes that they are given the opportunity to make the most of their education, not just be kept eligible.

I agree with that sentiment. Sure, there are going to be some knuckleheads who just don't give a **** and aren't interested in actually getting an education. Fine, let them waste that chance. But for those who are genuinely struggling, help them get to where they want to go. Don't just do their homework for them, or pressure the prof to keep them eligible, or steer them toward the path of least resistance.
 
I don't understand why so many people seem so interested in an NFL developmental league. Such an arrangement could only hurt college football. I figured we were all college football fans here. This is a very odd discussion.
Oh, I thought we were all about the college "kids" getting their payday in the NFL? I'm confused.

Seriously, until these leagues get to the point of getting competition levels on par with college also coaching, training... it will probably just a niche. Sustainability seems a long way off.
 
Probably wouldn't change college football too much. They still provide the money, fan bases, infrastructure and for 95% of the players a way to make money.

This is also why I don't think a developmental league would be viable. The NFL has it's hard core dedicated fans but it also has an almost total monopoly on the casual fans. It dominates TV and sports discussion at almost all levels. College has it's dedicated fans who understand that the level of play isn't the NFL but who have their interest because of their affiliations with the college teams they support, either because they went there or because of geographic loyalty, the college team represents "their" state or region.

We have seen with the numerous attempts at alternative professional leagues that the interest from the public just doesn't develop. Nobody does fantasy football for the XFL, local radio doesn't spend six months discussing who the starting QB will be. Minor league football doesn't have the allegiance that college ball does. Nobody is going to pay a $500+ seat license in addition to the ticket prices to see them, certainly nobody is going to write checks to give them donations.

Minor league baseball works because it is a pass time. Major league baseball pays the payroll cost and with 45-80 home dates they can generate enough revenue to cover other cost and make a profit.

Football is a much more expensive sport to operate with much fewer games. They simply don't have the means to generate the revenue to make it viable.
 
Back
Top