It's similar to Goodell suspending a player for violating league rules.
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Key CU Buffs player suspended for the season
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It's enough of a "legal" proceeding that there has to be some sort of due process. A university would face liability if it just suspended or expelled students without any sort of fact finding or process for the accused to address the charges. That being said, I'm sure there are process rules in place here. I'm not sure what they are, though, and fear that they may err on the side of protecting the "victim" rather than seeking the truth.
Joe Theismann's Leg
Well-Known Member
If a university's mission is to prepare students for career readiness, blocking them from an internship that would likely parlay into a job that would net them hundreds of thousands of dollars the very next year seems pretty antithetical.
I don't think that is a University's mission. Also, it's my observation that it is a little counter-productive to think that way.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
If a University's mission is to prepare students for career readiness, then having consequences for bad behavior would seem appropriate. I know it sucks to lose Tupou, and if anything the argument should be whether this student board is consistent with its punishments (which doesn't appear to be the case) but let's not forget that Tupou broke bones in this kid's face. Don't punch people, I learned that when I was like 5 years old.
As a "State" institution, when the review board hears a case, they have to provide pretty much the same basic due process as a court: right to confront the accuser/cross examination, present a defense, access to documents, be represented by a lawyer, some appeal process.
This was not a one-sided affair. If Tupo's lawyer felt it was, he'd take it to the courts for violation of due process.
Typed with thumbs.
This was not a one-sided affair. If Tupo's lawyer felt it was, he'd take it to the courts for violation of due process.
Typed with thumbs.
Actually he isn't a minor, he's over 18 and would be tried as an adult and subject of open records.
That said I agree that the school process should not be made public regarding individuals.
My question is based on the severity of the punishments that can be handed out by a body that is outside of the judicial system and the degree of openness in terms of the consistency and criteria applied. This is not aimed specifically at Josh's case, I don't know the details so it wouldn't be fair to comment, but instead at the general process.
gone native
Club Member
There is one pretty vital distinction: usually a standard of guilt for a review board is "preponderance of the evidence" meaning at least 51% of the weight of the evidence points towards guilt (similar to a civil case). A criminal court requires the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard to convict.
I don't think suspension for a semester is a particularly harsh punishment for the average student. It's pretty devastating for an athlete who competes only during that semester, though.
A semester suspension is pretty big thing for any student
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Sure, it's a punishment, but not debilitating. It can screw up your timetable and mess up your housing situation. Still, students voluntarily take off semesters all the time. It's not like you can't graduate or anything like that.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
It's still not as bad as getting your face broken IMO.
Maybe don't go around starting fights? This kid has had his face beaten in multiple times in the short time he's been at CU.
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SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
That makes it ok I guess. :rolling_eyes:
If you were there that night and saw it go down like that, then speak up, but I suspect you weren't. The result of whatever happened that night was this kid going to the hospital with broken bones in his face. Just because someone provoked you, doesn't give you the right to pummel them. If you do, you pay a price which is what's happening. I really don't have a lot of sympathy here.
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough.
Don't start a fight if you're not ready to fight. Calling a bunch of football players a racial name...sounds like a good way to not start a fight.
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I don't know the details of the incident beyond what has been posted here and the little that has shown up in the media.
Breaking somebody's face, even provoked will get you consequences most places in life (FSU, and Nebraska among others excepted.)
There is however a long reported list of incidents involving this "victim" which would indicate that he has a serious problem provoking others. If in fact he did make the racial epitaph then he as well should be before the review board as well. CU does have a policy regarding inappropriate conduct based on race and other factors.
Jeez, I wasn't suggesting that anyone should go that far! :lol:
Okay, so I can't schpell.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
I'm going to take your word for it that racial slurs were used, I'm sure you wouldn't say it unless you believed it were true, but that still doesn't give someone the right to pound another person's face in.
It doesn't matter who started the fight, a kid went to the hospital with a broken face and that deserves harsh punishment IMO.
I really don't understand this mindset that you can go around saying whatever you want to strangers and never have to answer the bell. Weird outlook.
Not hitting a person is a thing, I guess. But in my 20s and for the first few years in my thirties, I sometimes hit people. Sometimes I got hit, and I usually deserved it.
When I lived in Europe I always felt that they should hit each other more often. I know that it is a strange outlook, and violence isn't supposed to solve things. On the other hand, people acted like utter assholes all of the time, without much fear of reprisal. I'm pretty sure that some of the behaviors (mostly unapologetically taking space from others) they exhibited would have certainly resulted in at least a confrontation if not a good ol' fashioned ass-kicking in the U.S. My conclusion--right or wrong--is that sometimes the threat of violence makes us polite. Obviously there's a line when that fear of violence becomes oppressive.
I don't know if this kid deserved to get his ass kicked or not. But some people do.
So basically you're saying it's perfectly fine to run your mouth and use racial slurs and one can't expect to have repercussions for their actions. This is a two way street, not a one way that you are trying to make it. If you don't want to get in a fight, don't run your mouth. It's as simple as that. It's also different if this was an isolated incident, but it wasn't. The "victim" has a nice little track record of running his mouth at people.
pcbuff
Well-Known Member
The courts view follows the sticks and stones nursery rhyme. Basically trying to equate a broken eye socket with an n-bomb aren't equal.
So yeah, he deserved it. But the system can't allow gladiators to kill the spectators. It is a life lesson every big strong man has to learn!
The courts dropped the charges.
The person that retaliates is usually the person who gets caught and punished. It's not outrageous that Tupou's being punished for breaking this kid's face. The outrage is coming from the severity of the punishment and the fact that it's a disciplinary system run by students, not professionals, that is ruining this kid's playing career.