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Legit question: Are we better than last year?
- Thread starter seattlebuff
- Start date
we don't have the bodies to compete in conference. we knew this going into the season. I had hoped coaching would get us a few wins in conf, but it doesn't look like it. the staff as a whole is better at coaching by far than last year, imho. but, without recruiting at a much higher level than currently, I don't see us improving for a very long time.
ChemEBuff
Member
Was talking to a friend last night and we brought up the same point. I dont think we have the players to compete right now and that might take a while to change. The thing that baffles me though, is the fact that even with average to below average players coaching adjustments should put these guys in a position to succeed. While watching the game last night i was completely blown away by the fact that our defense could do literally nothing to stop ASU from moving the ball. I know our players may be smaller or a bit undersized or whatever, but doesnt it seem like these coaches should be able to make some sort of adjustment to what ASU is doing so they dont score 40+ on us before half time? Offense is a different ball game. ASU defense was keyed on to us the whole night and it didnt look good from the start. The buffs are one of the few teams in college this year that look completely incapable of stopping a nose bleed. And part of me wants to put that all on coaching...
Another way to think about it... Say that CU had fired Hawkins when they should have instead of a year late and say they had brought in a staff like this one. I believe we'd have avoided falling totally off the cliff and would have seen immediate and real improvement. We had more bodies then. How they would have recruited is pure speculation too but they would have been starting from a stronger position than now after the last 3 years of completely ruined recruiting.
This staff does a lot well. They are very good, IMHO, at organization and working together and effectively planning and such. But they aren't recruiting at a high enough level for us to really improve anytime soon. If they can get in guys that can be redshirted and developed then you will start to reap some benefits but I don't see us getting to even .500 in conference without significant upgrades in raw talent.
This staff does a lot well. They are very good, IMHO, at organization and working together and effectively planning and such. But they aren't recruiting at a high enough level for us to really improve anytime soon. If they can get in guys that can be redshirted and developed then you will start to reap some benefits but I don't see us getting to even .500 in conference without significant upgrades in raw talent.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Exactly.
But, but, but in twelve quarters of conference play, CU was competitive in the first quarter against Oregon, even though we finished that quarter trailing Oregon 29-10.
I'll come around when CU is competitive in a conference game for four quarters.
By this time last year, Embree actually had a road victory. By that admittedly shaky measure, CU is regressing.
Each of the three conference games thus far were complete **** shows. There is nothing firm I can stand upon to believe Cal will be a win.
Deleted member 807
Guest
Agree with the bold. The accountability for that decision is lacking. The brain trust that were behind that decision are still on CU's payroll, lurking in the shadows, fortified by the recent Rick George and Mike MacIntyre hires. And CU has little more than a pair of new scoreboards and a contract stipulation to show for a facilities plan.
ASU was coming off what could've been a confidence destroying loss in which they were physically dominated by ND. ASU does have significantly more talent and depth than we do, though that can be said of every single team in the Pac. We're years away from a bowl game, and that is if this staff is the right one.
And at this point last year Embree managed to lose to CSU and a FCS team and had lost to Fresno 69-14, UCLA 42-14, and ASU 51-17
Sent from a red light
Being competitive in conference play is a tall order. I'm not saying that to be flippant. The truth of the matter is that every other school (save for USC) has improved since last year. We could be better, but in comparison, we're still behind. We actually need other teams to regress for us to start being competitive. I don't see that happening anytime soon, I'm afraid. Maybe add Cal to that list as well. The other issue is that the few teams that we were closest to (WSU, OSU, UU) all got a lot better, while we just got a little better. It doesn't help us much to see Stanford slipping up. They have a long way to go before they need to worry about us. Same goes for USC, frankly.
We have covered the non-conference part. Outside of one quarter against Oregon, we are not any better in conference play. Anemic offense, giving up big plays on defense, and special teams mostly just along for the ride. Rinse, repeat.
You have gone out of your way to avoid calling like it is. That's okay, totally expected from you by now.
This team already won two games they wouldn't have won last season, so yes, they're better. The most optimistic among us saw 3-4 wins before the season started, and that's still the case.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
I didn't expect us to win any conference games (maybe one if we played above our heads). It was clear the conference was getting better. I said 2-10 before the season started (including the Fresno game). But I did expect us to be more competitive, like maybe losing 45-17, or 38-17, where the outcome isn't determined until maybe middle 3rd or into the 4th quarter. We're not even close to that. Maybe that's two steps forward from last year, and we've only taken a half-step forward, maybe.
And I'm going to keep stating this: PRich is overhyped on this board. If he doesn't beat his guy on a fly pattern, he's basically just an average WR. Can he go over the middle? Where are the slants, z routes, etc.? Can he sit down in the zone? I'm not seeing it ... and NFL scouts can't be either. This is the same act we've seen in his other years ... 2-3 big games and zero in the rest.
And I'm going to keep stating this: PRich is overhyped on this board. If he doesn't beat his guy on a fly pattern, he's basically just an average WR. Can he go over the middle? Where are the slants, z routes, etc.? Can he sit down in the zone? I'm not seeing it ... and NFL scouts can't be either. This is the same act we've seen in his other years ... 2-3 big games and zero in the rest.
All valid, except I thought we'd go 1-10.
Deleted member 807
Guest
The Oregon 1st quarter was exciting for the first 13 minutes, but we still trailed by 29-10 at the end of this most proud P12 accomplishment under MacIntyre.
And yet at the time we had played Oregon the best out of anyone this season. Conference play has been really, really bad thus far, but I'm going to avoid going off the deep end just yet until I see the Arizona/Cal/USC games at home.
We are improved. It is hard to see it because we are still so bad but we are making improvements.
The problems are as Liver and Sacky point out we are still so far behind and the other teams in the conference aren't standing still waiting for us.
It is frustrating to see or think about it the day after we played a game in which we were out of it less than 5 minutes in but just go back and look at how bed we were last year. We won one flipping game by one point last year including the OOC. We had an average margin of minus 28 points per game for the season. It was only that low because a lot of coaches had mercy on us as their players were laughing at us in the first quarter of games.
Our talent is terrible, for the most part we have Sun Belt level talent playing at multiple positions. That isn't going to change in one partial recruiting class.
I still see a good likelyhood of picking up a conference win this year. It isn't happening against UCLA, Washington, or USC and likely not against Zona. Those teams are enough better than us that they could play their worst game of the year and still beat us. Cal looks ripe and despite yesterday Utah may be beatable.
The big difference is that I see a team that is starting to buy what the coach is selling. I see a team that gets the plays in and run without time outs and penalties, a team that tries to make adjustments. I also see a combination of some of M2's kids he has brought in and how he found and developed kids at SJSU and see a team that is slowly turning things around.
Guys this isn't going to be easy. We sucked really badly the last couple years and we could be way better and still suck. This is going to take some time and we are going to have some bumps in the road. Last night was simply proof of that reality.
The problems are as Liver and Sacky point out we are still so far behind and the other teams in the conference aren't standing still waiting for us.
It is frustrating to see or think about it the day after we played a game in which we were out of it less than 5 minutes in but just go back and look at how bed we were last year. We won one flipping game by one point last year including the OOC. We had an average margin of minus 28 points per game for the season. It was only that low because a lot of coaches had mercy on us as their players were laughing at us in the first quarter of games.
Our talent is terrible, for the most part we have Sun Belt level talent playing at multiple positions. That isn't going to change in one partial recruiting class.
I still see a good likelyhood of picking up a conference win this year. It isn't happening against UCLA, Washington, or USC and likely not against Zona. Those teams are enough better than us that they could play their worst game of the year and still beat us. Cal looks ripe and despite yesterday Utah may be beatable.
The big difference is that I see a team that is starting to buy what the coach is selling. I see a team that gets the plays in and run without time outs and penalties, a team that tries to make adjustments. I also see a combination of some of M2's kids he has brought in and how he found and developed kids at SJSU and see a team that is slowly turning things around.
Guys this isn't going to be easy. We sucked really badly the last couple years and we could be way better and still suck. This is going to take some time and we are going to have some bumps in the road. Last night was simply proof of that reality.
Ugh no kidding
^^This as well^^
We have a bunch of guys who were recruited by other people who got used to the way things were, including losing.
It's also hard to change a culture when you don't have the substance to back it. We could have played a perfect game against Oregon, maximum effort, perfect game plan, everyone on board, and by how much do we still lose.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I am still in a wait and see mode with MacIntyre. He most definitely came out strong with that 2-0 start. Getting a win in the RMS left a great first impression. Seeing the team play for 4 qtrs of mostly penalty free ball was refreshing.
But the bloom is off the rose with three abysmal conference game, punctuated by three different foes showing mercy and bringing in scrubs after the half. The coaching, fitness and execution are getting worse as the season goes on. I was hoping for steady improvement.
But the bloom is off the rose with three abysmal conference game, punctuated by three different foes showing mercy and bringing in scrubs after the half. The coaching, fitness and execution are getting worse as the season goes on. I was hoping for steady improvement.
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Remember that M2 was 1-12 his first year at SJSU, and wasn't playing Oregon and other ranked teams.
This isn't going to happen right away. We just don't have the talent right now. Will M2 be able to turn it around in the future? I think so but there is no guarantee, it is a huge job even to get to where we belong on the field against PAC opponents.
Not surprising that we look like we are regressing in some ways. We have no depth, our opponents are much better than our OOC foes were, and the guys are figuring out that we are at a significant dissadvantage.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I've read the SJSU brochure with all the turn-around stuff.
I agree about the lack of talent and the need for patience.
But this team was 100% not ready from the opening series. That lack of fight in the first quarter has me concerned. If there was a game plan for ASU, I didn't see it.
Can't argue about the first few series. Our guys looked lost on both sides of the ball.
A small positive but significant for me though was that even after it was obvious that the game was gone early and ASU did take the foot off the gas our kids did put out some effort. I saw a different response than we saw last year.
Granted it didn't make any difference, we got killed either way but at least I am seeing some attitude changes.
We are going to have some more ugly games before the end of this year. I don't like it but thats the reality. I am more concerned with how we handle those games this year at this point.
A small positive but significant for me though was that even after it was obvious that the game was gone early and ASU did take the foot off the gas our kids did put out some effort. I saw a different response than we saw last year.
Granted it didn't make any difference, we got killed either way but at least I am seeing some attitude changes.
We are going to have some more ugly games before the end of this year. I don't like it but thats the reality. I am more concerned with how we handle those games this year at this point.
It's inly been the road games this year to where they've given little effort and quit early on
Sent from a red light
lawdogg
Club Member
I'm sure you realize how little consolation that is.