Lots of negativity regarding Embree

[DBT]

You also can't totally dismiss that he went 3-10 with those 28 seniors who were coming off a 5-7 season that would have been 6-6 without the hatchet job by the refs (awarding possession to KU when we had a player stand up holding the ball) and Hawkins complete mismanagement of the rest of the 4th quarter.

Embree's 4-14, DBT. In those 18 games, we've been blown out more times than in 5 years under Hawkins. Recruiting and attendance are already way down.

What exactly do you need to see before you'd pull the trigger?

Our coaching is horrible by every measure.

I don't want to get into this argument. I am trying to weigh all the factors. I am neither defending Embree nor throwingn him under the bus. One could also argue that last year Embree was a coach taking over for a previous coach and changing systems while also changing conferences and, by many measures, playing the toughest schedule in college football.

If he were replaced tomorrow I would not be upset.

 

[Buffnik]

I don't want to get into this argument. I am trying to weigh all the factors. I am neither defending Embree nor throwingn him under the bus. One could also argue that last year Embree was a coach taking over for a previous coach and changing systems while also changing conferences and, by many measures, playing the toughest schedule in college football.

If he were replaced tomorrow I would not be upset.

Fair enough. I know you generally come from a place where you don't want to fire a coach until you feel he's been given a reasonable opportunity to succeed. I can definitely see that side of it with Embree. He inherited a bad situation and there wasn't a reasonable chance that he'd have quick success. Given that, there's an argument to be made that we should wait to see how he does once he's got a roster of his guys. My argument is that he's given me nothing to make me believe that he is leading us to a good place.

 

[DBT]

Fair enough. I know you generally come from a place where you don't want to fire a coach until you feel he's been given a reasonable opportunity to succeed. I can definitely see that side of it with Embree. He inherited a bad situation and there wasn't a reasonable chance that he'd have quick success. Given that, there's an argument to be made that we should wait to see how he does once he's got a roster of his guys. My argument is that he's given me nothing to make me believe that he is leading us to a good place.

And your argument is a good one. Honestly, if I were Bohn, I'd be talking, behind the scenes, to the best football folks I could for their opinions. Mac would not be one of those.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

And your argument is a good one. Honestly, if I were Bohn, I'd be talking, behind the scenes, to the best football folks I could for their opinions. Mac would not be one of those.

If i were Bohn i would've walked a long time ago. But I guess we can place his failures on coach mac.

Its good to be Mike Bohn these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lvbuff]

I'm not exactly sure how everyone can get their panties so wadded up in their assholes about this. WTF it is college football...Buffs suck now...its not like they never sucked before. Texas sucked for a while Bama sucked, LSU sucked...Its all cyclical. They will be back...part of what I see is a bunch of queer bitches (some on this site) mostly on other sites bitching and moaning and arguing intangible hypothetical bull**** that doesn't make one bit of difference. Why waste your tie complaining about **** that you can not control? Oh Bluto, the recruiting class wasn't as good as it should have been. The athletic director hired the wrong guys. The score boards suck. There aren't any renovations occurring. The president sucks. The fans suck, the players suck...Good grief!!!!! There is so much more to life than CU football. I promise all of you...If you take a few weeks or months off Colorado football will be there when you get back. The kids will be there the coaches will be there--maybe different ones, adminstrators will still be there.


As to critiquing players, I have watched this team get its ass beat just like the rest of you. I have made comments about it as well, But for soem of you ****ers who have made egregious statements about individuals, Man up and go see them personally and tell them what you think about their performance. Don't be a bunch of pussies and say your **** on the internet. For those of you who thinkyou know better than the coaching staff, make an appointment and let them know your position...If you have the balls to do it, come back and report out to the rest of us.

Sorry for the rant...just sick of all the asshole posers.

 

[GeauxBuffs]

I'm in the wait and see mode....There is a lot to be negative to ponder, losses to CSU and Sacremento State...On the other hand, this team pulled off a 4th quarter comeback, something that would never occur under the prior regime. Moreover, we have little developed talent....Our best wide reciever is injured, the next are a red shirt freshman (Spruce), an actual freshman (Thomas), and a guy who is good possesion reciever, but would probably not see the field if playing for another D1 team. Our best running back is injured (powell), and the next guy is dimuntive and no Rodney Stewart....The QB would at best be third string for Kansas...Defensively, I think were bad, but good enough to keep us competive in game all things considered....I just want to see what this team is like when Crawley et al are all juniors. Although I'm frustrated with the current affairs of the team, I'm not comfortable saying screw Embree. McCartney went 2-8, 4-7, and 1-10 his first three seasons....Using this snapshot today, he would be fired....I have difficulty in determing whether this is going the way of Hawk, where the players lost faith, or, whether the team is improving but that doesn't neccessarily show up in wins and losses....Does anyone have poignant insight regarding whats happening....definitive proof that this is far from Mac, and much more like Hawk.

 

[SteelCity Buff]

I'm in wait and see mode about Embo, as I'm waiting to see how two things play out. The first is his response to the defense. I don't think we can continue with Brown as DC- even in the lb unit, that most feel has decent talent and is handled by a competent position coach, we've been abused and exposed. If he stays with Brown, it's even beyond Barnett's loyalty to Okruh. The second thing I'm waiting to see is how EB's offense looks with Seifo or Dillon, who most seem to think will be representative p12 qb's. While Webb has shown some sack in taking a serious pounding, I don't think I would take him over any of the other p12 qb's, and I've seen every team but 'Zona. If next year looks the same offensively, with or without the same qb, I'll know what I need to know.

 

[somebody]

i'm not exactly sure how everyone can get their panties so wadded up in their assholes about this. Wtf it is college football...buffs suck now...its not like they never sucked before. Texas sucked for a while bama sucked, lsu sucked...its all cyclical. They will be back...part of what i see is a bunch of queer bitches (some on this site) mostly on other sites bitching and moaning and arguing intangible hypothetical bull**** that doesn't make one bit of difference. Why waste your tie complaining about **** that you can not control? Oh bluto, the recruiting class wasn't as good as it should have been. The athletic director hired the wrong guys. The score boards suck. There aren't any renovations occurring. The president sucks. The fans suck, the players suck...good grief!!!!! There is so much more to life than cu football. I promise all of you...if you take a few weeks or months off colorado football will be there when you get back. The kids will be there the coaches will be there--maybe different ones, adminstrators will still be there.


As to critiquing players, i have watched this team get its ass beat just like the rest of you. I have made comments about it as well, but for soem of you ****ers who have made egregious statements about individuals, man up and go see them personally and tell them what you think about their performance. Don't be a bunch of pussies and say your **** on the internet. For those of you who thinkyou know better than the coaching staff, make an appointment and let them know your position...if you have the balls to do it, come back and report out to the rest of us.

Sorry for the rant...just sick of all the asshole posers.

nsis

 

[Burrito]

I'm in wait and see mode about Embo, as I'm waiting to see how two things play out. The first is his response to the defense. I don't think we can continue with Brown as DC- even in the lb unit, that most feel has decent talent and is handled by a competent position coach, we've been abused and exposed. If he stays with Brown, it's even beyond Barnett's loyalty to Okruh. The second thing I'm waiting to see is how EB's offense looks with Seifo or Dillon, who most seem to think will be representative p12 qb's. While Webb has shown some sack in taking a serious pounding, I don't think I would take him over any of the other p12 qb's, and I've seen every team but 'Zona. If next year looks the same offensively, with or without the same qb, I'll know what I need to know.

If the LBs are talented yet sucking, why do you say the coach is competent?

 

[tante]

I am trying to make an appointment for early next week so I can tell Embree now I feel. Also trying to just have a fifteen minute one on one with both Obama and Romney before the election so I can make sure they address my concerns. This whole if you have a problem have a meeting is going to revolutionize the internet.

Also I took offense with some of the stuff you posted lvbuff, are you available today from 4:00pm to 5:00pm to discuss it?

 

[buffwings]

dont forget to come back here and report your findings.

While you're at it, set up meetings w/ Benson, Disteffano, and Bohn as well. Take some other ABers with you.

 

[Buffnik]

If the LBs are talented yet sucking, why do you say the coach is competent?

Yeah. I wonder where all the posts about Cabral are. If any other position group was supposed to be the strength of the team and then performed like this, the position coach would be getting pounded on here. Especially after that coach had also come up empty in the previous recruiting class. Cabral has earned a lot from us, but at some point we have to start asking the tough questions. Does he still have the fire as a LB coach? Has he been staying on the cutting edge of the position? Or are we using the same concepts and running the same drills that we were a decade ago?

 

[Highlander27]

To be fair, this wasn't Mac's setup. Mac's setup was to come in and jump on the handgrenade for a few years and then pass it along to Embree when they got it working better.

Would love to see Embree to succeed but i'm skeptical. You just don't play the way we do, getting smoked the way we do without having terrible coaching in one form or another.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I'm in the wait and see mode....There is a lot to be negative to ponder, losses to CSU and Sacremento State...On the other hand, this team pulled off a 4th quarter comeback, something that would never occur under the prior regime.

This statement is simply incorrect. In the OU game in 2007 the Buffs were down 24-10 in the 4th quarter, and came back to win. The same year, Nebraska was beating the Buffs 35 to 24 at halftime - and the Buffs came back to win the game. In 2008, Iowa State was beating the Buffs 24-13 in the 4th quarter, and the Buffs came back to win. In 2009, Kansas was leading 30-27 in the 4th quarter - the Buffs came back to win. Also in 2009, A&M was leading the Buffs 34-28 with a little over 2 minutes to play - CU came back to win. In 2010, Georgia was leading at halftime, and scored a TD on their 1st possession of the 2nd half - but the Buffs came back to win the game.

Moreover, we have little developed talent....Our best wide reciever is injured, the next are a red shirt freshman (Spruce), an actual freshman (Thomas), and a guy who is good possesion reciever, but would probably not see the field if playing for another D1 team. Our best running back is injured (powell), and the next guy is dimuntive and no Rodney Stewart....The QB would at best be third string for Kansas...

And yet last year, when the Buffs had a team full of seniors, when CU had Paul Richardson, Toney Clemons, Rodney Stewart, Tyler Hansen, a senior-laden OL --- the team managed to win a whopping THREE (3) games. Offensively - with all those seniors - the team averaged 346 yards per game, and a whopping 19.8 points per game!!

Defensively, I think were bad, but good enough to keep us competive in game all things considered....I just want to see what this team is like when Crawley et al are all juniors. Although I'm frustrated with the current affairs of the team, I'm not comfortable saying screw Embree. McCartney went 2-8, 4-7, and 1-10 his first three seasons....Using this snapshot today, he would be fired....I have difficulty in determing whether this is going the way of Hawk, where the players lost faith, or, whether the team is improving but that doesn't neccessarily show up in wins and losses....Does anyone have poignant insight regarding whats happening....definitive proof that this is far from Mac, and much more like Hawk.

First of all, McCartney's first year coaching at CU was 1982. Thirty years ago. That's what you want to base Embree's coaching record off of? Something that happened during a completely different era of college football. Unfortunately there wasn't an internet back in 1982. There wasn't a Pac-12 Network. Every football game wasn't televised every week. Head football coaches didn't earn millions back in 1982. Football programs didn't depend on big television contracts, huge donor support, etc. like they do today. Part of CU's problem, imo, is that CU football is stuck in 1982​!!!

 

[DBT]

Well, lots of good points on both sides of the argument. Fact is, we can't change coaches every 3 years. If Bohn were to make a change after this year, it would have to be as sure a thing as sure can get. It would have to be a "WOW!" kind of hire. Hiring some promising young offensive coordinator wouldn't do it.

 

[MtnBuff]

Would I be upset if they replaced Embree at the end of this year? No. Would I be surprised if they keep him at least one more year? Even less so. Rarely, short of getting drunk and having pictures published with the wrong young women hanging all over a coach or trying to intimidate the cop that makes the arrest for a DUI is a coach given less than 3 years no matter how bad a job he does.

Truth is that no matter how you want to revise it Embree inherited a team that was almost completely devoid of talent. He had a big number of seniors last year but most of those seniors would have had trouble seeing the field at a decent FCS school much less in the PAC. The jr. and soph. classes that he inherited which are now his sr. and jr. classes were even worse. A culture of losing completely permiated the entire program to a point were it was expected. In addition to that Hawkins had demolished recruiting ties in Colorado and the program has been irrelivant so long that we are off the radar for most decent recruits. Add to that an administration which has ignored facilities and made it clear that "on the cheap" is the standard of operation until further notice.

With all of this I don't know which magical coach could have come in and turned this thing around fast enough to make the fans around here happy. We can look at other schools doing well with first year coaches but situations are different. The ASU team that came in this week had more speed that didn't see the field than we have on the entire roster.

On the other side of the argument a coach may have a reasonable expectation of some time to turn things around but he also has to demonstrate reasonable progress and give reason to believe. Losing to Hawaii last year right out of the box was bad, getting dominated doing it was worse. In the grand scale that loss doesn't even register though compared to losing to CSU, Sac State, and getting destroyed by a mediocre MWC Fresno team. You can argue talent when we are losing to UCLA or ASU but not to Sac State.

I think that no matter what happens short of an even more complete meltdown Embree gets at least one more year. Don't say I agree or disagree but I don't see him getting fired. I do see his hand being forced in making some changes though. None of the assistants can stand up and beat their chest with pride but some are obvious weaknesses. Most obvious is Marshall. The OL was supposed to be our deepest, most talented unit. Bak was supposed to be a pro prospect, Munyer was listed by some for pre-season PAC honors, others were fairly highly respected recruits. The OL has been a complete disaster and isn't getting better. Marshall has also managed to completely wiff on the two best classes of OL recruits in memory in the state of Colorado. I am also far from pleased with Brookhart, he just seems clueless and his units are grossly inconsistent and underperform badly.

I know lots of people here hate Brown. I don't know if that is because of his Hawkins ties or just because he is a goofy looking guy with a goofier dad but from a coaching standpoint I don't entirely understand it. No he hasn't done well but as a coordinator he has been 10 times better than EB and EB keeps getting a pass. He has no LBs to work with, last year he had a HS level group of DBs to work with and people want him to make adjustments to fix things, give me a break. He may end up getting fired simply because changes have to happen but if he is fired and EB survives intact then I know that Embree is done because it isn't done on performance.

Speaking of LBs it is hard to say this about a long time dedicated Buff but I am seriously wondering about Cabral. His recruiting has been way less than we have come to expect in the past and his LBs, who already lack speed, don't seem to have a clue how to respond to what teams are doing to them.

At this point like it or not we are very likely to have Embree as coach next year. My hopes are that in the next year Dr. Phil will announce his retirement, potentially Benson goes as well, and their replacements will take football a little more seriously and can make a better decision on the future of the program than we would get from the current clueless individuals.

 

[Buffnik]

MTN - Re-read your first couple paragraphs. Then explain to me how Cabral won 2/3 as the interim head coach at the end of 2010.

 

[Duff Man]

Way to take a stand, Mtn. Just to recap, there may or may not be many things wrong with this coaching staff.

 

[Duff Man]

MTN - Re-read your first couple paragraphs. Then explain to me how Cabral won 2/3 as the interim head coach at the end of 2010.

...scoring over 34 and 44 points in those two wins no less. We finished last in the conference in offense last season. Last. No one is saying we should have been putting up Oregon type offensive numbers, but you have to do better than last with experienced starters pretty much everywhere.

 

[duaneallman8]

In one of Bama's recent games, the D-Line had 3 or 4 guys get penetration. All of them, nearly simultaneously got tall and raised thier arms to the sky as they chased the QB... Sure enough, pass deflected. It's a small thing but it really highlighted how fundementally disciplined a well coached team is and how different it looks than what we are watching right now

 

[Wyo Buff]

It's hard for me to accept the attitudes of the many relatively young people here, who grew up being taught they are "something special" - who really believe they are "awesome" and that their immediate needs are what counts the most. It's akin to the belief systems exhibited by high-schoolers who change schools and abandon their neighborhoods (what a quaint idea) and friends, to play for a better team.I graduated twice from CU, spent over 10 years as a full time student and my support for the Buffs is similar to patriotism - this is my university, love it or leave it.I'm not sure how responsive this is to the thread, but I'm sick of all the whining. Support the players and coaches - they are here for along while

This. Tired of the whining sissy bull**** around here. Wish we lived in a world where we could line up and figure it out.

 

[MtnBuff]

MTN - Re-read your first couple paragraphs. Then explain to me how Cabral won 2/3 as the interim head coach at the end of 2010.

So your thought is that had we just made Cabral HC we should be contending for the conference now. A number of the players that won those 2/3 were no longer around by the time Embree took over. They also got the boost that often happens when you make a coaching change in season. The whole team was just happy to see Hawkins gone. Playing a bad Iowa State team and Kansas State at that point didn't hurt.

Don't get me wrong. There isn't any excuse for this team not having at least 3 if not 4 wins by this point. The OOC performance is completely inexcusable.

All I am saying is that I don't see anybody else out there that would have this team much better than that at this point. Either way we are almost certainly looking at a minimum of one more year with Embree. If he deserves it or not is a discussion that can be defended on either side but we aren't making that decision. Either way, and I am reasonable sure he will be here, some serious changes do need to be made. Even those changes aren't going to turn us into a contender but we should be better than we have shown so far.

 

[Mick Ronson]

you also are just not going to go out and hire top coordinators for a coach who is already on a very hot seat. job security-wise that isn't a move guys with a wife and kids are going to make...even if they are from a lower-tier of football divisions.

 

[Buffnik]

So your thought is that had we just made Cabral HC we should be contending for the conference now. A number of the players that won those 2/3 were no longer around by the time Embree took over. They also got the boost that often happens when you make a coaching change in season. The whole team was just happy to see Hawkins gone. Playing a bad Iowa State team and Kansas State at that point didn't hurt.

Don't get me wrong. There isn't any excuse for this team not having at least 3 if not 4 wins by this point. The OOC performance is completely inexcusable.

All I am saying is that I don't see anybody else out there that would have this team much better than that at this point. Either way we are almost certainly looking at a minimum of one more year with Embree. If he deserves it or not is a discussion that can be defended on either side but we aren't making that decision. Either way, and I am reasonable sure he will be here, some serious changes do need to be made. Even those changes aren't going to turn us into a contender but we should be better than we have shown so far.

No. My point is we had enough talent in the program to be mediocre or better with the right coach. Cabral wasn't qualified and we saw what he did. We brought in a HC less qualified than Cabral and let him hire coordinators who are less experienced and qualified than what Cabral had to work with during his 3 games.

 

[MtnBuff]

No. My point is we had enough talent in the program to be mediocre or better with the right coach. Cabral wasn't qualified and we saw what he did. We brought in a HC less qualified than Cabral and let him hire coordinators who are less experienced and qualified than what Cabral had to work with during his 3 games.

Mediocre is by definition .500. I don't see anybody out there we could have gotten, even at a much higher price that would have had this bunch at .500.

As to your point about hiring a HC and two coordinators who had zero experience at even coordinator positons I agree completely. I can see giving a young, dynamic guy a chance but if you are going to do that at least give him a chance by having somebody who has experienced the position there to guide him.

I think there is a better than average chance that at some point Embree is going to be a successful head coach. I just don't think it is going to happen in this job.

 

[SteelCity Buff]

If the LBs are talented yet sucking, why do you say the coach is competent?

In part it could be what the linebackers are asked to do by the defensive call? When I call Cabral competent, it's working off his body of work. Your suggestion that he isn't doing well may very well be right.

 

[BlackNGold]

No. My point is we had enough talent in the program to be mediocre or better with the right coach. Cabral wasn't qualified and we saw what he did. We brought in a HC less qualified than Cabral and let him hire coordinators who are less experienced and qualified than what Cabral had to work with during his 3 games.

I just don't agree with this...Yes we should of beat CSU and Sac St...but this team is lacking talent in so many areas that I doubt that many coaches would get to 6 wins with this team. The 2010 team you are comparing it to had two number one draft picks that were seniors plus Scotty McKnight, Tony Clemons and Paul Richardson as WRs - I could go on but the talent on that roster was much better than we have now and they did not do very well - the blow out loss to Cal comes to mind. I think some of the Freshmen will be very good in two years but they are not there yet.

 

[MtnBuff]

I just don't agree with this...Yes we should of beat CSU and Sac St...but this team is lacking talent in so many areas that I doubt that many coaches would get to 6 wins with this team. The 2010 team you are comparing it to had two number one draft picks that were seniors plus Scotty McKnight, Tony Clemons and Paul Richardson as WRs - I could go on but the talent on that roster was much better than we have now and they did not do very well - the blow out loss to Cal comes to mind. I think some of the Freshmen will be very good in two years but they are not there yet.

Agree with this. You also didn't mention a 3 year starting sr. QB and some other talent advantages that team had.

I am as frustrated as anyone at seeing us go out and get blasted week after week and when it is by teams like Fresno, CSU, and Sac State it is even worse. If we had hired a different coach we may not have lost those games but even with the best coach we would still be at best a bad football team right now. I do see the foundation of a better team being built. I'm not saying that we will see that better team under Embree but if he is gone his replacement is going to inherit a better situation than Embree did.

 

[Burrito]

So we know there's no way Brown, Embree, or EB is getting sacked, so who does go. I think Carbral and Marshall. Maybe Kennedy.

 

[Duff Man]

Yeah, it's really too bad Embree has not had an experienced QB as the starter.