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Mac considered one of the best off-season hires

CVilleBuff said:
Won't be breaking through in SEC anytime soon, IMO. Tennessee has their disadvantages sitting in a state with little talent compared to their neighbors, and there's only so many legacy commits out there.

As for us, his lack of rebuilding experience wouldn't have been an ideal fit.
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tennessee's lack of success more has to do with south carolina finally keeping all their instate talent.
 
I see a 3-5 Tenn team heading into Missouri on November 2. If they lose that one, the 'Fire Foodcart' chant could get pretty loud.
 
sweaty teets said:
tennessee's lack of success more has to do with south carolina finally keeping all their instate talent.
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:nod:

The rise of SC from nobodies has had a bigger effect on the Vols than anyone else. Would also add Bama regularly dipping into Georgia for top talent has hurt the Vols as well.
 
Duff Man said:
:nod:

The rise of SC from nobodies has had a bigger effect on the Vols than anyone else. Would also add Bama regularly dipping into Georgia for top talent has hurt the Vols as well.
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I know our circumstances (donor support, stadium size, recruiting base) are quite different than Tennessee's, but their considerable drop (not dissimilar) in the football world has provided considerable shadenfreude these last few years.
 
sweaty teets said:
tennessee's lack of success more has to do with south carolina finally keeping all their instate talent.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. Don't see Tennessee being poised to launch the raids into SC, GA even FL/AL like they used to for the foreseeable future. And you've got Memphis metro within range of half the SEC closer than it is to Knoxville.

Definitely important to keep in mind Clemson's rise alongside U of South Carolina, too. They've taken it to a new level, although always having recruited rather well.

They also used to poke around Virginia, and still attempt to, but the elite talent in VA is largely being picked up by UVA and others at the moment, for however long that may last.
 
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NW Buff said:
How is your assertion that the lists are accurate based on one example any better than buffedup's assertion that they are not accurate based on one example?
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Well I was hoping to be back to a computer sooner than I was to further expand on that :lol:

Here is how CBS rated the 2008 coaching hires:

1. Mike Locksley - New Mexico, 2-26
  • Fired
2. Dan Mullen - Mississippi State
4. Steve Sarkisian - Washington
4. Lane Kiffin - Tennessee
  • Left for USC
5. Dave Christiensen - Wyoming
6. Gary Andersen
  • Left to take Wisconsin HC in 2013
7. Dave Clawson - Bowling Green
8. Brady Hoke - San Diego State
  • Left for Michigan in 2011
9. Bill Snyder - Kansas State
10.Tim Beckman - Toledo
  • Left for Illinois in 2012
11. Danny Hope - Purdue
  • Fired
12. Gene Chizik - Auburn
  • Fired
13. Doug Marrone - Syracuse
  • Fired

Now, that's just one year, I tried to get more but I was having trouble finding it back to 2007 and 2006 since I didn't feel that the 2009-2012 ones have a large enough sample size to come to a conclusion on them. The 2008 hires saw some sort of success and other than Mike Locksley and Lane Kiffin, I'd argue that half of them are pretty good coaches and CBS to an extent did a good job ranking these hires.

Maybe being the #1 hire is a curse :lol:
 
CVilleBuff said:
Won't be breaking through in SEC anytime soon, IMO. Tennessee has their disadvantages sitting in a state with little talent compared to their neighbors, and there's only so many legacy commits out there.

As for us, his lack of rebuilding experience wouldn't have been an ideal fit.
Click to expand...

I think they'll give him a longer leash if he brings in recruits like he has so far.
 
'Tini said:
Well I was hoping to be back to a computer sooner than I was to further expand on that :lol:

Here is how CBS rated the 2008 coaching hires:

1. Mike Locksley - New Mexico, 2-26
  • Fired
2. Dan Mullen - Mississippi State
4. Steve Sarkisian - Washington
4. Lane Kiffin - Tennessee
  • Left for USC
5. Dave Christiensen - Wyoming
6. Gary Andersen
  • Left to take Wisconsin HC in 2013
7. Dave Clawson - Bowling Green
8. Brady Hoke - San Diego State
  • Left for Michigan in 2011
9. Bill Snyder - Kansas State
10.Tim Beckman - Toledo
  • Left for Illinois in 2012
11. Danny Hope - Purdue
  • Fired
12. Gene Chizik - Auburn
  • Fired
13. Doug Marrone - Syracuse
  • Fired

Now, that's just one year, I tried to get more but I was having trouble finding it back to 2007 and 2006 since I didn't feel that the 2009-2012 ones have a large enough sample size to come to a conclusion on them. The 2008 hires saw some sort of success and other than Mike Locksley and Lane Kiffin, I'd argue that half of them are pretty good coaches and CBS to an extent did a good job ranking these hires.

Maybe being the #1 hire is a curse :lol:
Click to expand...

I think that list more-or-less makes the point that the ratings are useless. A third of the people listed were abject failures with several more treading water (e.g. - Sark and Kiffin).

I hope that Mac is a good coach but I won't believe that he is a good coach because some talking head says so. I'd like to actually see results on the field.

Edit - I see that's the entire list of coaches and the bottom ones are, rightly, considered not good hires. Still doesn't seem like a ringing endorsement.
 
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NW Buff said:
I think that list more-or-less makes the point that the ratings are useless. A third of the people listed were abject failures with several more treading water (e.g. - Sark and Kiffin).

I hope that Mac is a good coach but I won't believe that he is a good coach because some talking head says so. I'd like to actually see results on the field.
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I'll give you Kiffin, but I disagree with Sark. He took over a 0-12 team and lead them to a 5-7 season in his first year and has loaded the roster with talent. I want to see what he does this year before I claim that he's treading water. As for the 1/3rd comment, other than Locksley (how a NMSU hire got #1 I have no idea) and to an extent Kiffin, the fired ones were at the bottom of the rankings. I think there needs to be more data here and the ratings are very ambiguous but I'd say that if you're ranked as a good hire by CBS or another outlet like that, it's reasonably accurate.
 
'Tini said:
I'll give you Kiffin, but I disagree with Sark. He took over a 0-12 team and lead them to a 5-7 season in his first year and has loaded the roster with talent. I want to see what he does this year before I claim that he's treading water. As for the 1/3rd comment, other than Locksley (how a NMSU hire got #1 I have no idea) and to an extent Kiffin, the fired ones were at the bottom of the rankings. I think there needs to be more data here and the ratings are very ambiguous but I'd say that if you're ranked as a good hire by CBS or another outlet like that, it's reasonably accurate.
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Huge year for Sark. Determines if he takes it to the next level, or starts taking the "Tommy Bowden" route of fixing a broken program, but underachieving and never being able to get over that 7-8 win ceiling.
 
boydbuff said:
I was certainly excited about Foodcart b/c he was a "splashy" hire. But in retrospect, I am quite happy we got HCMM. As many others have said, HCMM has proven capable of doing a massive turnaround, whereas Foodcart has a tendency of succeeding by following success from a prior HC. Big difference.
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Butch Jones was a "splashy hire"??
 
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boydbuff said:
Not sure about Butch Davis but Butch Jones was considered a relatively hot commodity and way more known by media and recruits (outside of Cali especially) than HCMM.
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My bad, I meant Butch Jones - I'm still not sure I would consider him a splashy hire. Weren't most Vol fans pretty underwhelmed with that hire?
 
SINKRATZ said:
My bad, I meant Butch Jones - I'm still not sure I would consider him a splashy hire. Weren't most Vol fans pretty underwhelmed with that hire?
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All relative of course. But he was considered a hot up and coming coach and was much more in demand than HCMM. Regardless of that, I think HCMM is a better fit due to his rebuilding experience and his deep recruiting contacts in Cali. I also happen to like his personality better as Butch came off as an ass the way he handled everything.
 
boydbuff said:
Not sure about Butch Davis but Butch Jones was considered a relatively hot commodity and way more known by media and recruits (outside of Cali especially) than HCMM.
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Much like Dan Hawkins when he left Boise for here and I can see Butch flaming out much the same way
 
FlatironsBuff said:
Much like Dan Hawkins when he left Boise for here and I can see Butch flaming out much the same way
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Certainly a possibility for similar but different reasons. As it turns out CP was the brains in that operation. In the case of Butch, he has regularly followed a successful prior coach and has inherited a good roster. Not the case as much w/ Tennessee as of late, so we'll see.

If I were a betting man, I would guess that HCMM's stock in 3-5 yrs is going to be better than Butch's. If it is really good he may be headed to the SEC, but that wouldn't be the end of the world.
 
Wow I never noticed how tough Tennessee's schedule is. Jesus.

@Oregon
@Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
@Alabama

There's pretty much five sure losses and they still have to play Vandy and Auburn (not sure how good they'll be but they have talent)
 
dply said:
I was a Barnett fan. I've since changed my mind on Barnett but I hated Hawk when we hired him. I liked Hawk in 2007 but that didn't last long.
Click to expand...

Why did you change your mind on GB? All he did was get recruiting classes in top 30, win division titles and actually understood coaching. Stellar coach he was not... but he was VERY solid coach with a solid resume. His record at CU was 49-38 and 34-22 in conference. Throw away his crappy first 2 years which he was having to inherit from tricky ricky and looking at 39-23 and he took CU to bowls 5 outta 7 years! He beat NU about half the time (and arguably shoulda beat NU 5 times in that span.... recall last sec missed FG, last sec made FG, botched kick offs etc). Like I said not an amazing/best ever coach but averaging 7 wins a years or eliminate his ONE really down year averaging 8 wins a year is pretty damn solid.
 
Ralphandler1 said:
Why did you change your mind on GB? All he did was get recruiting classes in top 30, win division titles and actually understood coaching. Stellar coach he was not... but he was VERY solid coach with a solid resume. His record at CU was 49-38 and 34-22 in conference. Throw away his crappy first 2 years which he was having to inherit from tricky ricky and looking at 39-23 and he took CU to bowls 5 outta 7 years! He beat NU about half the time (and arguably shoulda beat NU 5 times in that span.... recall last sec missed FG, last sec made FG, botched kick offs etc). Like I said not an amazing/best ever coach but averaging 7 wins a years or eliminate his ONE really down year averaging 8 wins a year is pretty damn solid.
Click to expand...

I will always do the "what if" scenario of if Barnett had taken over right after McCartney. I think CU would have had very little drop off in this scenario. You don't take the worst program in the Big 10 to the Rose Bowl and come within a mouse fart of playing for the mNC at Colorado (while dismantling Nebraska and beating Texas back to back) without being a hell of a good coach. Barnett was defeated by the "scandal", not because he was a mediocre coach.
 
Ralphandler1 said:
Why did you change your mind on GB? All he did was get recruiting classes in top 30, win division titles and actually understood coaching. Stellar coach he was not... but he was VERY solid coach with a solid resume. His record at CU was 49-38 and 34-22 in conference. Throw away his crappy first 2 years which he was having to inherit from tricky ricky and looking at 39-23 and he took CU to bowls 5 outta 7 years! He beat NU about half the time (and arguably shoulda beat NU 5 times in that span.... recall last sec missed FG, last sec made FG, botched kick offs etc). Like I said not an amazing/best ever coach but averaging 7 wins a years or eliminate his ONE really down year averaging 8 wins a year is pretty damn solid.
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He stopped recruiting high caliber athletes after Ochs and Houston flamed out. GB dug his own grave by intentionally changing how he recruited. The sanctions didn't help, but he ran the other direction if he sensed any level of prima donna in a recruit.
 
'Tini said:
Wow I never noticed how tough Tennessee's schedule is. Jesus.

@Oregon
@Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
@Alabama

There's pretty much five sure losses and they still have to play Vandy and Auburn (not sure how good they'll be but they have talent)
Click to expand...

Bielema has a rough first year schedule too

Texas A&M
@ Florida
South Carolina
@ Alabama

all in a row. Thats 4 losses in a row right there.
 
scotth92 said:
He stopped recruiting high caliber athletes after Ochs and Houston flamed out. GB dug his own grave by intentionally changing how he recruited. The sanctions didn't help, but he ran the other direction if he sensed any level of prima donna in a recruit.
Click to expand...
Also of note was that we were going through a public relations nightmare, which created some longstanding perception issues, both fair and unfair, regarding the program that really only recently have gone away because our horrible record has become our new perception.
 
Ralphandler1 said:
Why did you change your mind on GB? All he did was get recruiting classes in top 30, win division titles and actually understood coaching. Stellar coach he was not... but he was VERY solid coach with a solid resume. His record at CU was 49-38 and 34-22 in conference. Throw away his crappy first 2 years which he was having to inherit from tricky ricky and looking at 39-23 and he took CU to bowls 5 outta 7 years! He beat NU about half the time (and arguably shoulda beat NU 5 times in that span.... recall last sec missed FG, last sec made FG, botched kick offs etc). Like I said not an amazing/best ever coach but averaging 7 wins a years or eliminate his ONE really down year averaging 8 wins a year is pretty damn solid.
Click to expand...


I still like Barnett. What i meant was i stopped being angry at CU and decided it was best for him to walk away after 2005. I just wish we hired someone who knew how to coach.
 
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