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Mac success at SJSU....and non-P5 Head Coaches

OsideBuff

Dimwitted ****
I went back and looked at Mac's teams and one thing was VERY clear.....he did not start winning until he got lucky with David Foles at QB. He was not on the roster in 2011....when they went 5-7. When he took over, he completed 73% of his passes....33 TDs and 9 picks....170 QB rating. If the Buffs had a QB with those kind of stats...we would probably be undefeated. Additionally, you all have talked about recruiting, etc. If you look at what McElwain did for CSU....he brought in the "program" from arguably the BEST program in America....what it takes to succeed at teh highest levels...RECRUITING ties to the most fertile grounds in America....and the knowledge that you needed assistants that followed that same script. You will notice he took NONE of his assistants from CSU...he knew he was in big boy ball and did not bring the small boy coaching staff. I have been incredibly impressed with what he has done at Florida....in many games this year, his team got down big and fought their way back. CSU would be a one loss team (BSU) if Mac were still there. I think RG understands this...i assume he was heavily involved in purging of Baer....and IF he keeps Mac...will force a change at OC.... Bottom line is that teams that lack across the board talent MUST have a quality, consistent QB to win.... Sefo has been a warrior....but he wilts under the pressure...when we are in a position to put a team away aka Oregon and Arizona, he simply does not execute. Was a big Mac backer at teh beginning of the season....but he has shown himself to be Hawk II.....
 
1. We all know a QB can change everything, that is obvious. I have seen that stated multiple times on this board.
2. Mac at CSU didn't really change the team by recruiting, a lot his successful players were actually from the prior coaching staff. He succeeded because he installed a mindset and an offense that imposed its will on the other team. A very Stanford like power run game in the MWC would be dominant considering how bad the defenses are in that conference.
3. Mac hasn't really done much recruiting at Florida yet, their success is due to a mindset and scheme change on the offensive side of the ball which is where they really struggled over the last couple years. They have ALWAYS had talent including the number 3, 4 and 8th ranked recruiting classes from 2012-2014.
4. People familiar with the program say that Mac was the one who forced Baer out. Did he make a mistake not upgrading his staff when he came here? Probably. But to say RG is the responsible for bringing in Leavitt is leaving out some truth. RG and Mac probably have conversations all the time about how to get better, Mac has stated multiple times recruiting is not where it needs to be. It is not a novel concept.
 
It's really impressive the lengths that posters will go to to discredit anything McElwain has done.
 
Goose said:
It's really impressive the lengths that posters will go to to discredit anything McElwain has done.
Click to expand...

Not trying to discredit anything I was actually trying to give him more credit. It wasn't just because he brought in a bunch of talent, it was because he was a superior coach and got the most out of his players, essentially the same with what he is doing at Florida. I was more trying to say the change at CSU wasn't just a recruiting uptick.
 
McElewain brought in the RB from Alabama that torched the Buffs...and recruited many players from Florida to CSU....We only now are reaching into Florida....Mac recruitied Rashard Higgins...Kapri Bibbs....Deonte Gaines.....and overhauled an O-Line that had two NFL starters that is...in my estimation, better than the Buffs. So, he outrecruited Mac with less tools and reached into the south for some key players....and frankly should have won the game this year...Buffs did not really beat them....with a starting OL that has been together for a few years....upper classman. I have no real insight into the Mac vs. RG... You notice when Mac hired bonafide assistants (Leavitt....and DB coach)....recruiting improved. Bottom line is that his loyalty to the staff...much like Squakins....is/was/will be teh downfall.
 
Goose said:
It's really impressive the lengths that posters will go to to discredit anything McElwain has done.
Click to expand...
I initially thought McElwain was a horrible hire...for FLA. But if you look at what he did as OC of Alabama....versus the issues Alabama has had since he left. Have read that Saban had such great confidence in McElwain that he rarely engaged in teh offensive side of the ball...if you watch now...Saban is all over Lane Kiffin. McElwain simply knows what he is doing and is proving it across teh board. We shall see...but he took a 7-5 team and put them in the top 10.
 
SDBuff said:
McElewain brought in the RB from Alabama that torched the Buffs...and recruited many players from Florida to CSU....We only now are reaching into Florida....Mac recruitied Rashard Higgins...Kapri Bibbs....Deonte Gaines.....and overhauled an O-Line that had two NFL starters that is...in my estimation, better than the Buffs. So, he outrecruited Mac with less tools and reached into the south for some key players....and frankly should have won the game this year...Buffs did not really beat them....with a starting OL that has been together for a few years....upper classman. I have no real insight into the Mac vs. RG... You notice when Mac hired bonafide assistants (Leavitt....and DB coach)....recruiting improved. Bottom line is that his loyalty to the staff...much like Squakins....is/was/will be teh downfall.
Click to expand...

The Hart situation he just sort of lucked into and he had to choose between UCF and CSU. Bibbs was originally signed by Fairchild. Yes he did recruit Higgins but who is Deonte Gaines? Anyways, yes he did overhaul the offensive line and installed a mindset, like I said above. Just because you are getting players from Florida doesn't mean they are better than everyone else. I don't think he outrecruitied Mac at all, he just develops quarterbacks better and had a great one for the last two years before this one which is a great equalizer.
 
SDBuff said:
I went back and looked at Mac's teams and one thing was VERY clear.....he did not start winning until he got lucky with David Foles at QB. He was not on the roster in 2011....when they went 5-7. When he took over, he completed 73% of his passes....33 TDs and 9 picks....170 QB rating. If the Buffs had a QB with those kind of stats...we would probably be undefeated. Additionally, you all have talked about recruiting, etc. If you look at what McElwain did for CSU....he brought in the "program" from arguably the BEST program in America....what it takes to succeed at teh highest levels...RECRUITING ties to the most fertile grounds in America....and the knowledge that you needed assistants that followed that same script. You will notice he took NONE of his assistants from CSU...he knew he was in big boy ball and did not bring the small boy coaching staff. I have been incredibly impressed with what he has done at Florida....in many games this year, his team got down big and fought their way back. CSU would be a one loss team (BSU) if Mac were still there. I think RG understands this...i assume he was heavily involved in purging of Baer....and IF he keeps Mac...will force a change at OC.... Bottom line is that teams that lack across the board talent MUST have a quality, consistent QB to win.... Sefo has been a warrior....but he wilts under the pressure...when we are in a position to put a team away aka Oregon and Arizona, he simply does not execute. Was a big Mac backer at teh beginning of the season....but he has shown himself to be Hawk II.....
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of this.

  • The difference between the MW and the PAC is the quality of the opponents recruits, particularly the players at the LOS.
  • Note how long it has taken Utah to adjust to this.
  • McElwain inherited at UF program that had a lot more talent than CSU had when he arrived.
  • We all pretty much agree that MMs biggest mistake was bringing his entire staff to Boulder.
 
That ONE player can make a difference especially at the collegiate level . If it is at QB or RB then even that much more of an impact. Until CU can get that ONE guy that will stand up, put the team on his back and really make an impact, we will remain losers. I do not see that guy on our roster. The closest we have I think is Spruce, but he has to get the ball? None of our RB's come close. Lindsey tries, but just doesn't have "it". On the D side of the ball Awuzie is the "guy", but a defensive guy really can not take over a game like the Boz used to with today's offenses...
 
argument sake - csu had DHart and Grayson and Higgins. Any of those guys could change a game if any of the others were having a bad day.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
I agree with a lot of this.

  • The difference between the MW and the PAC is the quality of the opponents recruits, particularly the players at the LOS.
  • Note how long it has taken Utah to adjust to this.
  • McElwain inherited at UF program that had a lot more talent than CSU had when he arrived.
  • We all pretty much agree that MMs biggest mistake was bringing his entire staff to Boulder.
Click to expand...
Didn't Utah win a BCS bowl (I mean granted, it was against an SEC opponent, but still...) when they were in the Mountain West?
 
Orr said:
Didn't Utah win a BCS bowl (I mean granted, it was against an SEC opponent, but still...) when they were in the Mountain West?
Click to expand...

So did Boise State as well. Its always possible to catch lightning in a bottle.

If Utah had some how kept Urban Meyer into the Pac12 my guess is we'd have the team we should hate. And conveniently they wear red too.
 
Orr said:
So, MW talent can't compete with elite P5 talent, except when it does, in which case it's dismissed. Seems fair.
Click to expand...

What happens to those MWC schools coaches when they are successful? They get purchased by a P5 program the moment they have success. Hawkins, Pederson, Meyer, MacIntyre, all used the job as a stepping stone. What if Meyer had stayed at Utah? Would BSU have been able to sustain its dominance of the conference? Probably not.

Once a coach like that leaves the recruiting tends to fall apart.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
What happens to those MWC schools coaches when they are successful? They get purchased by a P5 program the moment they have success. Hawkins, Pederson, Meyer, MacIntyre, all used the job as a stepping stone. What if Meyer had stayed at Utah? Would BSU have been able to sustain its dominance of the conference? Probably not.

Once a coach like that leaves the recruiting tends to fall apart.
Click to expand...
This seems like a non-sequitur.
 
And my point is that maybe one or two of those teams a year is dominant while the rest of the conference is awful. So you are able to dominate the opponents and finish the year with most of your starters (not as easy playing P5 teams weekly) and a lofty winning record.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
And my point is that maybe one or two of those teams a year is dominant while the rest of the conference is awful. So you are able to dominate the opponents and finish the year with most of your starters (not as easy playing P5 teams weekly) and a lofty winning record.
Click to expand...
Are we talking about the Mountain West or the B12 here?
 
1 RG had zero to do with the Baer exit other than to say the money is there if you want to go another route. That money wasn't there 2 years prior.
Big difference from Gator situation.

2. Many coaches have come from lower levels and brought their staff with success.
 
I think MM might have worked out of we were still in the Big 12 and had some lighter competition every year to make things a little better and take some of the pressure off.

Think about Urban Meyer. He went from the MAC to the MWC (when the MWC was a tougher conference) then to the SEC. If he went straight from the MAC to Florida, maybe he doesn't hit that learning curve at the right time.

Not saying MM would have ever been Urban Meyer or anything close to that, but the jump from just a few seasons at SJSU to the pressure cooker of the Pac-12 South may have been too big of a learning curve.
 
buffaholic said:
1 RG had zero to do with the Baer exit other than to say the money is there if you want to go another route. That money wasn't there 2 years prior.
Big difference from Gator situation.

2. Many coaches have come from lower levels and brought their staff with success.
Click to expand...
Do you think the Hawkins era would have been better at CU, had he brought his entire staff from Boise (hypothetically assuming that was a possibility)?
 
TSchekler said:
Do you think the Hawkins era would have been better at CU, had he brought his entire staff from Boise (hypothetically assuming that was a possibility)?
Click to expand...
His offensive staff would have been Peterson and Harsin.
His defensive coordinator would have been Justin Wilcox.

What do you think?
 
absinthe said:
His offensive staff would have been Peterson and Harsin.
His defensive coordinator would have been Justin Wilcox.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
How do you figure Wilcox? He didn't come back to Boise until 2006, after Hawkins had left.

Either way, I guess it's up to the HC to understand who he should bring tot he next level and who he should replace. Hawk left everybody at Boise (or maybe they chose to stay?) and failed at CU. Mac brought everybody and is failing at CU.
 
Hawk had some pretty good recruiting classes out of the box....got the studs in Colorado...he was just an idiot... Helfrich was mediocre OC with no real experience. He is in over his head at Oregon...he will not survive the long haul. He road the coat tails of Mariota.... Sqiuakins brought the DC from Boise...Ron Collins ..and the Riddler as teh Special teams coach. Squakins brought TOO much of his old staff with him....they all failed.
 
Funny....Hawk had Ron Collins as our DC....and what is he doing today? Five years as LINEBACKER coach at Ohio.....and teh RIddler went to North Texas and Arkansas State after Squawkins got fired. There my friends is why Squakins failed....he had horrible coaches that have not achieved teh same level since they left Colorado....brutal to think our DC is a linebackers coach at Ohio..ugh.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
What happens to those MWC schools coaches when they are successful? They get purchased by a P5 program the moment they have success. Hawkins, Pederson, Meyer, MacIntyre, all used the job as a stepping stone. What if Meyer had stayed at Utah? Would BSU have been able to sustain its dominance of the conference? Probably not.

Once a coach like that leaves the recruiting tends to fall apart.
Click to expand...
Not MacIntyre - he never coached in the MWC. He coached in the WAC.
 
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