Mark Kennedy new, but soon to be old CU President - Official CU president Thread

[skibum]

I know people with degrees from schools that no longer exist.

They would vehemently disagree with the idea that the value of their degree was unaffected by the closure.

 

[Mb2658]

I know people with degrees from schools that no longer exist.

They would vehemently disagree with the idea that the value of their degree was unaffected by the closure.

Of course the would. They are hardly impartial third parties. They made a personal and most likely a financial investment in an institution that no longer exists. That really sucks. Would an objective person conclude that they were denied an opportunity because a third party selecting official viewed their degree as less valuable?

 

[PAHIBuff]

I haven’t kept up here, but I do have to wonder why and when things went south with CU academically. I recently looked up rankings from multiple sources and in many CU schools - they have been way down, predating the new guy.

Lots of schools many here make fun of are ranked about as high or higher than CU, mostly because the university has dropped. What’s the reason? Anyone?

Please try to avoid tired, political, knee-jerk excuses that apply to most universities, I’m actually curious what’s going on.

Good post. Apparently no one knows the answer.....

 

[manhattanbuff]

I haven’t kept up here, but I do have to wonder why and when things went south with CU academically. I recently looked up rankings from multiple sources and in many CU schools - they have been way down, predating the new guy.

Lots of schools many here make fun of are ranked about as high or higher than CU, mostly because the university has dropped. What’s the reason? Anyone?

Please try to avoid tired, political, knee-jerk excuses that apply to most universities, I’m actually curious what’s going on.

I think the answer is money. The budget cuts from the state have prompted the school to get more aggressive in recruiting out of state students who pay more in tuition than in state students who have minimum requirements for admission.

 

[Mb2658]

Having spent some time with CU fundraisers, I think they would not endorse that message.

I would seriously question their chops as a fundraiser if they did.

 

[patebuff]

You mean to tell me politics screwed something up? No. Way

 

[skibum]

Would an objective person conclude that they were denied an opportunity because a third party selecting official viewed their degree as less valuable?

Yes.

If you do not think the current status or reputation of a university has a real impact on the perceived quality of a degree from said university, I'm really not sure what reality you live in.

Logically and rationally it probably shouldn't, but logic and rationality have minimal influence in the real world.

 

[Mb2658]

Yes.

If you do not think the current status or reputation of a university has a real impact on the perceived quality of a degree from said university, I'm really not sure what reality you live in.

Logically and rationally it probably shouldn't, but logic and rationality have minimal influence in the real world.

One where events are possible, probable, or likely.

Is it possible that someone may be denied an opportunity because the person making the decision is so arbitrary and capricious and decides that he or she doesnt value a degree because X party in the upper echelon of a university system said or did something that they didn’t personally agree with? Sure. But that person and their decision certainly have a limited scope and sphere of influence. It does not span time and it certainly isn’t retroactive. Is it possible that CU grads were passed over and are still being passed over for jobs unfairly today because the BoR fired Ward Churchill back in 2007? Sure, I guess.

Far more probable and likely is that the average hiring official is making a decision based upon the total person, including their academic achievements, work history, volunteer activities, skills and abilities.

I can tell you that in the hiring processes that I have been part of over the course of my career, at no point in time did the actions of academic institution’s governing body even come into consideration. This is even more diminished as you progress through a career. My current ability to promote or change positions within my organization has absolutely zero to do with what Jack Kroll says or does.

I would say that the average person’s perception of CU has far more to do with how it is perceived as a party school and politically liberal than it has to do with any specific person. This is just my take, we all have our own different perspectives.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Why is it that whenever left-wing folk don't get their way, there's always something wrong with the "process"?

heh. Partisan much?

Why would we want to hire a lessor qualified candidate Instead of the more qualified one? We didnt consider...

the heads of far bigger schools such as Penn State, Rutgers and Texas A&M. And a former chancellor of Texas Tech system and the CEO of the American Association of Medical Colleges. Concealed are the names of persons from a large southern university and a mid-size West Coast university and the CEO of a health care corporation...

We hired a guy from the Univ of North ****ing Dakota that was about to be lynched by their alumni. Is UND a highly regarded research school with a billion dollar budget? Multiple campuses? And a prestigious Medical School?

Kennedy’s unremarkable performance at UND — which has a student body one-fifth that of CU’s and a budget that’s one-eighth the size

The Univ of Central Florida chose not to hire him Right before us.

We were worthy of a more deliberative, careful, and thoughtful process. Certainly a better search firm (now defunct). In the end we got the depth of his experience does not match CU’s caliber and complexity.

 

[Creebuzz]

I think the answer is money. The budget cuts from the state have prompted the school to get more aggressive in recruiting out of state students who pay more in tuition than in state students who have minimum requirements for admission.

I agree that the cash infusion from out of state students has lowered admission requirements. Hard to find parents willing to fork over $400,000 for an undergrad degree (and that’s what I think it would cost all in). If they can pay and have reasonable scores, they’re in.

I would add another possibility for in state students. CU in state is $11,500 per year plus cost of living in super pricey Boulder. In comparison, out of state tuition at U Florida is $27,500. For a top 10% high schooler in Colorado, a partial scholarship reducing the Florida tuition down to, say, $20,000 plus the lower cost of living In Gainesville, might make the cost of attendance close to a wash. (Florida is just my example, but would work similarly for lots of schools).

I have friends in Colorado with high school kids, and the bitching about the cost of living in both Boulder and Ft. Collins are pretty commonplace. Boulder is often rated #1 city in the nation, but there obvious downsides with that for parents and students.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I agree that Colorado’s process of partisan political elections for certain non-political positions is outdated (See sheriff, coroner, assessor, etc). At some point, you need to have a body of knowledge to even begin to do the job. You could argue that Regent should be included in this group.



I’m not so sure that a BoR that is appointed by the governor gets you anything more here. I guess the devil is in the details of what an appointment would look like. I could see the partisan chicanery continuing here as it seems to be permeating every facet of life.

To me, the makeup of the enrollment doesn’t change anything. I get that you, as an alum who paid out of state tuition and is living out of state, feel that you should have a say in the governance of the University system. I respectfully disagree.

As alumni, we engaged in a business transaction with the University. We paid our tuition, completed a degree program to a base level of scholastic achievement, and received a diploma. The University may even ask us for donations from time to time and we may chose to be generous and give them money. We were never promised a say in how the University is run in the years and decades after we graduated.

Maybe if there were some rules to getting the appointed position like experience teaching at a 4 year school, posession of an advanced degree or pHd required, along with business experience and fund raising. Make it hard so not just anyone could be plugged in.

 

[Mb2658]

Maybe if there were some rules to getting the appointed position like experience teaching at a 4 year school, posession of an advanced degree or pHd required, along with business experience and fund raising. Make it hard so not just anyone could be plugged in.

I am in favor of reasonable minimum requirements to ensure that you don’t get a political hack of any stripe appointed to a position.

 

[BlackNGold]

I haven’t kept up here, but I do have to wonder why and when things went south with CU academically. I recently looked up rankings from multiple sources and in many CU schools - they have been way down, predating the new guy.

Lots of schools many here make fun of are ranked about as high or higher than CU, mostly because the university has dropped. What’s the reason? Anyone?

Please try to avoid tired, political, knee-jerk excuses that apply to most universities, I’m actually curious what’s going on.

You have asked the best question in this thread, IMO. My reply would be a 50 plus page document. I think there are many factors. If you were to poll the citizens of Colorado on the value of CU Boulder, I wonder what sort of response you would get. Very few of the people in my social and business circles have children going to CU Boulder. People talk about funding but I see the incredible development at the Anschutz Campus and the growth of Metro State University over the past decade - they seem to be getting funding. I believe the way people are consuming education is changing and I don't believe that CU Boulder has always evolved to meet those changes. I will spare you the other 49+ pages.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

Shouldn’t this get moved to the politics board?

 

[skibum]

One where events are possible, probable, or likely.

Is it possible that someone may be denied an opportunity because the person making the decision is so arbitrary and capricious and decides that he or she doesnt value a degree because X party in the upper echelon of a university system said or did something that they didn’t personally agree with? Sure. But that person and their decision certainly have a limited scope and sphere of influence. It does not span time and it certainly isn’t retroactive. Is it possible that CU grads were passed over and are still being passed over for jobs unfairly today because the BoR fired Ward Churchill back in 2007? Sure, I guess.

Far more probable and likely is that the average hiring official is making a decision based upon the total person, including their academic achievements, work history, volunteer activities, skills and abilities.

I can tell you that in the hiring processes that I have been part of over the course of my career, at no point in time did the actions of academic institution’s governing body even come into consideration. This is even more diminished as you progress through a career. My current ability to promote or change positions within my organization has absolutely zero to do with what Jack Kroll says or does.

I would say that the average person’s perception of CU has far more to do with how it is perceived as a party school and politically liberal than it has to do with any specific person. This is just my take, we all have our own different perspectives.

What do you think the board of regents does?

You're right, no one is going to make a judgement on the value of a degree based on the composition of the board of regents, or based on a single decision by them.

However, the BOR makes decisions that, over time, have an absolutely enormous impact on the academic quality and prestige of the CU System.

That quality and prestige do have a direct, tangible effect on the value of future, and yes, past degrees granted by the schools in the CU system.

Which brings me back to my original claim: the composition of the BOR is much more important to an out of state alumni than it is to a random CSU fry cook.

 

[Buffs35]

Shouldn’t this get moved to the politics board?

Yes

 

[dio]

Shouldn’t this get moved to the politics board?

No.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Shouldn’t this get moved to the politics board?

No. Because it has nothing to do with football.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

Perfect AllBuffs logic. Never change AllBuffs.

 

[PAHIBuff]

heh. Partisan much?

Why would we want to hire a lessor qualified candidate Instead of the more qualified one? We didnt consider...

the heads of far bigger schools such as Penn State, Rutgers and Texas A&M. And a former chancellor of Texas Tech system and the CEO of the American Association of Medical Colleges. Concealed are the names of persons from a large southern university and a mid-size West Coast university and the CEO of a health care corporation...

We hired a guy from the Univ of North ****ing Dakota that was about to be lynched by their alumni. Is UND a highly regarded research school with a billion dollar budget? Multiple campuses? And a prestigious Medical School?

Kennedy’s unremarkable performance at UND — which has a student body one-fifth that of CU’s and a budget that’s one-eighth the size

The Univ of Central Florida chose not to hire him Right before us.

We were worthy of a more deliberative, careful, and thoughtful process. Certainly a better search firm (now defunct). In the end we got the depth of his experience does not match CU’s caliber and complexity.

I wonder if pay was a factor or a consideration. I'm not sure, just curious. And actually, I think that there are such big changes coming to higher education over the next 20 years that issues such as those being discussed in this good thread will be accurately seen as quaint.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I wonder if pay was a factor or a consideration. I'm not sure, just curious. And actually, I think that there are such big changes coming to higher education over the next 20 years that issues such as those being discussed in this good thread will be accurately seen as quaint.

I think you are right on change. Im not sure what that looks like other than to say that, if something doesnt change, access will become more and more restricted due to price.

 

[Alfred91]

I guess I'm going to go political with this answer, but unfortunately the answer to your question is ultimately political.

If CU has indeed gone downhill, it is because of TABOR, just like why everything else in Colorado has gotten worse in the last 30 years. Our infrastructure, our K-12 system, and yes, our higher ed, has suffered from a lack of funding from the state level. It just is what it is.

 

[Not Sure]

Everything has gotten worse in Colorado the last 30 years? Wut?

 

[WarBuff]

I guess I'm going to go political with this answer, but unfortunately the answer to your question is ultimately political.

If CU has indeed gone downhill, it is because of TABOR, just like why everything else in Colorado has gotten worse in the last 30 years. Our infrastructure, our K-12 system, and yes, our higher ed, has suffered from a lack of funding from the state level. It just is what it is.

Have to disagree about Tabor. If the citizens feel they should support CU more substantially, they would vote to pay for it. Tabor only requires citizen approval for higher taxes. We as a state believe strongly in having someone else pay for what we would like.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Have to disagree about Tabor. If the citizens feel they should support CU more substantially, they would vote to pay for it. Tabor only requires citizen approval for higher taxes. We as a state believe strongly in having someone else pay for what we would like.

Requiring a referendum for all tax increases is insane. You can see the decline in education in Colorado after TABOR.

 

[BlackNGold]

I guess I'm going to go political with this answer, but unfortunately the answer to your question is ultimately political.

If CU has indeed gone downhill, it is because of TABOR, just like why everything else in Colorado has gotten worse in the last 30 years. Our infrastructure, our K-12 system, and yes, our higher ed, has suffered from a lack of funding from the state level. It just is what it is.

Requiring a referendum for all tax increases is insane. You can see the decline in education in Colorado after TABOR.

These are lazy takes. US News ranked Colorado 11th in Education last year. Infrastructure spending is done by bond issues and has nothing to do with Tabor. Most of the School districts have opted out of Tabor (de-Brucing). Most have gotten a windfall with the increase in property tax revenue because of increased property valuation. Two thirds of the State’s revenues are outside of Tabor (enterprise revenue - fees).

No referendum is required to raise taxes - just voter approval. CC was on the recent ballot which would of limited Tabor but was defeated by the voters.

Tabor has nothing to do with CU hiring a president.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

These are lazy takes. US News ranked Colorado 11th in Education last year. Infrastructure spending is done by bond issues and has nothing to do with Tabor. Most of the School districts have opted out of Tabor (de-Brucing). Most have gotten a windfall with the increase in property tax revenue because of increased property valuation. Two thirds of the State’s revenues are outside of Tabor (enterprise revenue - fees).

No referendum is required to raise taxes - just voter approval. CC was on the recent ballot which would of limited Tabor but was defeated by the voters.

Tabor has nothing to do with CU hiring a president.

Ive been waiting for the higher ed ONLY initiative. One that ties a tuition reduction to a new tax.

require that any money the state government keeps over its existing revenue limit be spent for public schools, higher education, and transportation projects, rather than returned to taxpayers.​

but i guess thats just tooo limiting.

 

[manhattanbuff]

These are lazy takes. US News ranked Colorado 11th in Education last year. Infrastructure spending is done by bond issues and has nothing to do with Tabor. Most of the School districts have opted out of Tabor (de-Brucing). Most have gotten a windfall with the increase in property tax revenue because of increased property valuation. Two thirds of the State’s revenues are outside of Tabor (enterprise revenue - fees).

No referendum is required to raise taxes - just voter approval. CC was on the recent ballot which would of limited Tabor but was defeated by the voters.

Tabor has nothing to do with CU hiring a president.

The University of Colorado is 11th? Go ahead and show those rankings, lazy takes.

 

[BlackNGold]

The University of Colorado is 11th? Go ahead and show those rankings, lazy takes.

I did not say University of Colorado - You said - "You can see the decline in education in Colorado after TABOR.". I said US News and World Report ranked Colorado 11th in education last year. Link below - as you requested.

State Rankings

 

[BlackNGold]

Ive been waiting for the higher ed ONLY initiative. One that ties a tuition reduction to a new tax.

require that any money the state government keeps over its existing revenue limit be spent for public schools, higher education, and transportation projects, rather than returned to taxpayers.​

but i guess thats just tooo limiting.

I could support if colleges would control tuition and fees costs. Anyway this is getting way off topic. The hiring process is not a result of Tabor.