Bummer. My guess is he is done
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MBB Game Thread: Buffs Vs Ducks
- Thread starter buff4bcs1985
- Start date
The team is struggling because the head coach has made poor recruiting decisions on top of running a lethargic offense. 5 out of the 9 players he has signed since 2012 have left the team (Fletcher, Hopkins, Jenkins, D. Thomas, Guzonjic), more than 50% attrition is terrible for any school.
Collier has been a bust. This year (19 games) he has 31 assists and 24 T.O's. Last year (34 games) he had 91 assists and 72 T.O's. Overall in his career he has averaged less than 2 assists per game and 1.6 turnovers per game. The offense does not flow with him in the lineup. The team plays better with him coming off the bench.
Gordon has regressed under Tad. The team actually plays better without him in the lineup. Gordon does not run down court, he slowly lags up and down the court, showing minimal effort.He should be benched indefinitely.
This team has 3 quality Pac 12 players (White, XJ and King). White and XJ are going to graduate and there is a player that is supposedly on his way out early after this season. Tad should hope it is not King.
The team does not perform well, the players are unhappy, recruiting has been below average, the offense is stagnant and the coaches cannot seem to teach players simple help defense (and close out defense on the perimeter). Players are being suspended frequently, Freshmen thru Seniors. Experienced two blowout losses this season giving up over 100 points. As a fanatic, one hopes for the best. Reality is, the wheels are coming off this program and have been at a steady pace, there are no saviors from the most recent class signing. If King is the player who leaves at seasons end, next years team will be lucky to smell 10 victories. Tad has built up equity in this program. But he also needs to be held accountable for what is going on with the issues off the court, poor recruiting and underperforming on the court.
Collier has been a bust. This year (19 games) he has 31 assists and 24 T.O's. Last year (34 games) he had 91 assists and 72 T.O's. Overall in his career he has averaged less than 2 assists per game and 1.6 turnovers per game. The offense does not flow with him in the lineup. The team plays better with him coming off the bench.
Gordon has regressed under Tad. The team actually plays better without him in the lineup. Gordon does not run down court, he slowly lags up and down the court, showing minimal effort.He should be benched indefinitely.
This team has 3 quality Pac 12 players (White, XJ and King). White and XJ are going to graduate and there is a player that is supposedly on his way out early after this season. Tad should hope it is not King.
The team does not perform well, the players are unhappy, recruiting has been below average, the offense is stagnant and the coaches cannot seem to teach players simple help defense (and close out defense on the perimeter). Players are being suspended frequently, Freshmen thru Seniors. Experienced two blowout losses this season giving up over 100 points. As a fanatic, one hopes for the best. Reality is, the wheels are coming off this program and have been at a steady pace, there are no saviors from the most recent class signing. If King is the player who leaves at seasons end, next years team will be lucky to smell 10 victories. Tad has built up equity in this program. But he also needs to be held accountable for what is going on with the issues off the court, poor recruiting and underperforming on the court.
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
The curious thing is that dumb posts are often quite lengthy. Seems there could be a better use of time, but to each his/her own.
I'm guessing there's an underlying and potentially logical reason for dumb posts. Some possibilities include: - bet the 401k on this year's team making the final four; - jilted in a love triangle involving CU student(s), and perhaps those student(s) being avid basketball fans; - failure to have admission application to CU-B approved, or flunked out of CU-B; etc.
Buffs Basketball Fan
Well-Known Member
And team lost
Let drama begin
Get your popcorn ready
Let drama begin
Get your popcorn ready
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
I served with Haiku Buff. I knew Haiku Buff. Haiku Buff is a friend of mine. Sir, you're no Haiku Buff.
(It just needed to be said.)
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Buffs Basketball Fan
Well-Known Member
No clue who Haiku Buff is
Not trying to invade his turf
Not trying to invade his turf
Morning wakeup call
Fire, mistakes fill my core
Bookmarked hot sauce thread
Haiku on, BBF
AllStarBuffs
Member
Welcome to 2017! If someone doesn't agree with someone, rather than debating or rebuffing they say the person has an "agenda" or "narrative" or "dumb post" or "fake news"
No. The original post I was referring to is full of fake news, with made up rumors about George King leaving and saying there are only 3 PAC 12 caliber players, or that recruiting is a complete failure. The fun thing is that there are kernels of truth, just like "fake news", to make it seem like it is making a cogent argument. Good try though.
1. The leadership of this senior class has not developed.
2. There were some serious misses, many of whom have left the program.
3. Roster has been pretty effectively back-filled with transfers in the back court.
4. I disagree with Dom being a "miss". He hasn't been a superstar, but he's a solid rotational guard on a good Power Conference team.
5. The current freshmen are pretty darn good. Hopefully we don't lose Peters from this group, because he is key.
6. The incoming class may be the best recruiting class in CU history.
2. There were some serious misses, many of whom have left the program.
3. Roster has been pretty effectively back-filled with transfers in the back court.
4. I disagree with Dom being a "miss". He hasn't been a superstar, but he's a solid rotational guard on a good Power Conference team.
5. The current freshmen are pretty darn good. Hopefully we don't lose Peters from this group, because he is key.
6. The incoming class may be the best recruiting class in CU history.
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Buffs Basketball Fan
Well-Known Member
Where does leadership for next year come from?
At least 5 first year players on the roster (Bey, Battey, Schwartz, Walton, and Strating(?))
At least 5 first year players on the roster (Bey, Battey, Schwartz, Walton, and Strating(?))
coereg
Well-Known Member
With all fairness, they did just lose a game to one of the best teams in the nation, and in a "pay-back" game during Senior Day in front of a raucous crowd. Oregon has blown out and embarrassed several teams at home this season, including even Arizona.
Peters Suspension
I don't know what is going on here but was shocked to hear about indefinite suspension. Tad's comments (in my opinion) appeared to be fairly harsh as well, suggesting that this one may be something more than just a missed meeting or being late for a team meal or whatever. It's sad because B.P. has been developing into a good reliable and exciting player, developing even some leadership "go-to" qualities as well.
Growing Concerns
This has been a very disappointing and trying season. One does obviously get a feel that there is locker-room tension, player tensions with the HC, and in recent years even players quitting on this team and coaching staff. There was the situation two years ago with A Booker, where he called it quits during their preparations for the CBA tournament. There were developing tensions already surrounding J Hopkins that year. Now this year there have been very uneasy feelings surrounding off-court issues, suspensions with both XJ and Gordon, a third suspension now with Peters, and a head coach seemingly sitting there with his head in his hands.
While I do appreciate the late season run this team has put together, it is rather disappointing. I thought this team would be prepared and mature enough to make a run at a 20+ win season and maybe a quality/better seeding within the NCAA tournament, giving them a chance to finally advance. Yet it's been a season mired in player issues, silly mindless mistakes and non-preparation that has plagued them in several games, perhaps a weak locker-room, and a HC searching for many answers. This continues to be a 18-19-20 win regular season program, facing 10 to 12 losses, with about 1/3 of those losses coming in games they really probably shouldn't be losing. For example : CSU, @ ASU, USC, @ Washington and @ Wash St. They should have at least been prepared enough and good enough to pull out 4 of those games. Ok, maybe you lose a tight game @ ASU or you lose the OT game @ Wash St. That's acceptable and happens. When you stack all of that up to how the season "should" be looking, you would have a team sitting at or around 21-7 (10-5), staring down the barrel at 3 home wins, potentially, in front of your own raucous crowds, to finish the season. 24-7 (13-5) would easily give them a first round bye in the Pac-12 tournament, and the team would be excited for a higher seeding (maybe 4th or 5th seed) in the NCAA tournament .... and a chance to realistically advance a couple of rounds.
Peters Suspension
I don't know what is going on here but was shocked to hear about indefinite suspension. Tad's comments (in my opinion) appeared to be fairly harsh as well, suggesting that this one may be something more than just a missed meeting or being late for a team meal or whatever. It's sad because B.P. has been developing into a good reliable and exciting player, developing even some leadership "go-to" qualities as well.
Growing Concerns
This has been a very disappointing and trying season. One does obviously get a feel that there is locker-room tension, player tensions with the HC, and in recent years even players quitting on this team and coaching staff. There was the situation two years ago with A Booker, where he called it quits during their preparations for the CBA tournament. There were developing tensions already surrounding J Hopkins that year. Now this year there have been very uneasy feelings surrounding off-court issues, suspensions with both XJ and Gordon, a third suspension now with Peters, and a head coach seemingly sitting there with his head in his hands.
While I do appreciate the late season run this team has put together, it is rather disappointing. I thought this team would be prepared and mature enough to make a run at a 20+ win season and maybe a quality/better seeding within the NCAA tournament, giving them a chance to finally advance. Yet it's been a season mired in player issues, silly mindless mistakes and non-preparation that has plagued them in several games, perhaps a weak locker-room, and a HC searching for many answers. This continues to be a 18-19-20 win regular season program, facing 10 to 12 losses, with about 1/3 of those losses coming in games they really probably shouldn't be losing. For example : CSU, @ ASU, USC, @ Washington and @ Wash St. They should have at least been prepared enough and good enough to pull out 4 of those games. Ok, maybe you lose a tight game @ ASU or you lose the OT game @ Wash St. That's acceptable and happens. When you stack all of that up to how the season "should" be looking, you would have a team sitting at or around 21-7 (10-5), staring down the barrel at 3 home wins, potentially, in front of your own raucous crowds, to finish the season. 24-7 (13-5) would easily give them a first round bye in the Pac-12 tournament, and the team would be excited for a higher seeding (maybe 4th or 5th seed) in the NCAA tournament .... and a chance to realistically advance a couple of rounds.
There are no locker room tensions or problems between coaches & players. That's been the most perplexing thing about the issues this season. This team legitimately gets along better than most any you'll see and also works its ass off at practice.'
What I actually think we're missing is the tension.
We don't have that leader who says, "I give zero ****s if you like me. We're here to win and you're either with that or you can go **** yourself."
What I actually think we're missing is the tension.
We don't have that leader who says, "I give zero ****s if you like me. We're here to win and you're either with that or you can go **** yourself."
coereg
Well-Known Member
I'm not suggesting that any of the above is strictly just Tad Boyle's problems. There are many coaches around the country who face player issues, even multiples, within a season. Those issues and struggles are an underlying "understanding" of today's coll basketball. These kids have a lot more freedoms and in some cases, worse attitudes and a sense of privilege, obviously more so than in years past.
I think Tad and his staff have recruited good players. Kids that are good HS players and certainly show the skills early on to be able to develop and play at THIS level. He's also recruited some "raw-project" players (like Mills, Roberson, Stalzer, King, Akyazili, and D Walton) and some of those have developed and some haven't. The hardest part though is trying to get an early indication of how the kid is going to mature. How will he be with decision-making and temptations over the next few years? Obviously, in the case with CU, Tad has run into a string of bad luck and has recruited some good basketball players who have gone on to make some mind numbing mistakes and decisions.
I do however get the feeling that Tad plays back n forth on his emotions with the team. When things are going well, he appears to want to act out as a big brother. Then there are times when (for example this years team) he wants to go hard with them and demonstrate episodes of intolerance with them. That can be very confusing from a players stand point, watching all of that bounce back n forth before you.
I think Tad and his staff have recruited good players. Kids that are good HS players and certainly show the skills early on to be able to develop and play at THIS level. He's also recruited some "raw-project" players (like Mills, Roberson, Stalzer, King, Akyazili, and D Walton) and some of those have developed and some haven't. The hardest part though is trying to get an early indication of how the kid is going to mature. How will he be with decision-making and temptations over the next few years? Obviously, in the case with CU, Tad has run into a string of bad luck and has recruited some good basketball players who have gone on to make some mind numbing mistakes and decisions.
I do however get the feeling that Tad plays back n forth on his emotions with the team. When things are going well, he appears to want to act out as a big brother. Then there are times when (for example this years team) he wants to go hard with them and demonstrate episodes of intolerance with them. That can be very confusing from a players stand point, watching all of that bounce back n forth before you.
Please, entertain me.... Where was "Fake News"? Where in that post did it say George King is leaving? Where did it state that recruiting was a complete failure (the post said there have been poor recruiting decisions made)? If you would like to throw terms out there like "Fake News" and "Made up rumors", get your quotes and facts right.
5 out of the last 9 players to arrive on campus are gone - no argument, that's factual.
Collier has three years of 1.8 assists vs. 1.6 Turnovers per game. Fact.
Players being suspended - Fact.
Poor defense - fact.
There was not an agenda, there is no narrative and it was not a dumb post. You may disagree, in fact you did disagree and stated many non-facts in your response. I could say that was dumb, but you choose your own responses. While I understand there are a few who think that if you post something that is not applauding, no matter the topic, it is seen by those to be negative towards the program.... Change happens, either you get on board or sink. Change needs to happen in this program, there are facts I stated to validate that. While Collier being a bust is subjective as is the number of quality of Pac 12 caliber players on the roster, that doesn't make your response, your thoughts or insight on point. This team has problems, the roster has problems, the coach has problems off court with recruiting/discipline and on the court with getting the optimal effort out of his players. Perhaps you feel status quo is fine and you are okay with CU fielding mediocre teams. I am not and want to see improvements.
I don't think having a player tell teammates to "go f... themselves" is an attitude you want in the locker room. Leadership begins with the coach. If the coach continues to have leadership issues, perhaps it is time to look top down, not bottom up.
Good job repeating your kernels of truth. Like I said before, there were kernels of truth, those facts are facts. Everything else you're saying is speculative implications that have specious reasoning at best. I am unabashedly a huge Tad fan, but I've been critical of this team when deserved, and I don't jump to wild conclusions. I'm putting you on ignore now.
AllStarBuffs
Member
Are they doing the navy SEAL preseason workout regiment like they used to? They need to go back to doing that.
99'Buff
Well-Known Member
Not going to quote the post, but if this year only has 3 Pac-12 caliber players, then last year's roster only had 2 (Scott, King). And that team made the tournament. Where does the credit go for last season? I still say this team is at least as good, if not better, next season, without XJ and Wes. Namon seems to want a leadership role, and I see Tory, Dom and King as hard working seniors who won't get themselves suspended next season. And as stated earlier, this may be the best recruiting class CU has ever had, coming in next season.
You absolutely want and need that in a locker room. With a coach, once the season starts the only leverage he has is that he controls minutes. He needs to recruit players who want to be coached hard and have a burning desire to win they're willing to hold teammates accountable to.
You guys are ****ing idots with your "Pac-12 caliber player" takes. 2? 3? Are you ****ing kidding me? We don't have front line NBA talent. We have a limited number of guys likely to get a cup of coffee in the Association. But that is not the same as a "Pac-12 quality player". We have a roster full of Pac-12 quality players and about a quarter of our roster is above average. That's why the team wins as much or more than it loses.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
My issue with this is saying XJ is one of our only P5 quality players. Average athlete. Slow feet, clunky as all **** when he drives or posts up, and that's one of the guys you single out?
I cant imagine what you think of the rest of the conference if you think we have 3 P5 athletes.
Yeah. XJ is more of a mid-major type guy.
WTF?!?!?!
Dude's been a double digit scorer with 5+ rebounds a night for 3 seasons on a Pac-12 team and people are seriously questioning whether he's a "Pac-12 quality player"? I'm losing my damn mind reading this board.
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99'Buff
Well-Known Member
Yes, that initial comment regarding Pac-12 caliber players was ridiculous. I wasn't agreeing it in any way or form. In this year's rotation, I'd say 10 of 11 guys are Pac-12 caliber. Akyazili is the only one I'm not sure about, given his inability to shoot and questionable defense. There's plenty of talent on this team. The problems are all mental, and mainly tied to leadership.
I agree with this.
The rest, it's more a question of whether they are high-end or low-end Pac-12 talent. A guy has to at least have one thing he can be a role player with and star in that role or he doesn't belong out there. And we can't have too many role player types or there are too many holes to be exploited.
I've been trying to figure out what exactly happened with this. Bryce by all accounts is a good guy, but definitely has a little bit of XJ in him. Both free-spirits that aren't exactly focused on basketball all the time. My guess is he did something fairly minor, but Tad is in dictator mode trying to teach him he can't do this for the next three years. I expect Bryce will be back and a huge contributor for the next three years.
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
Still, Can you grudgingly admit that the economy of words to effectively and concisely express the author's opinion on this particular subject was impressive?