Mike Bohn's dilemma

[dio]

Agreed, but unfortunately baseball is probably the most expensive sport CU could add. They would need completely new facilities and there are a lot of players on scholarship.

Don't disagree with any of that. I'm not even advocating we jump into Baseball. I would prefer hockey :smile2:

Still, I can see that baseball would be huge here. The state is baseball crazed right now.

 

[Buffnik]

If Larry Scott is "encouraging" schools to add sports, I'd assume he wants sports that all PAC teams compete in. I doubt he'd be happy if CU added hockey and joined the WCHA or some such league. Baseball and softball would fit nicely into the PAC as well as balancing each other for Titl IX. How many PAC schools have women's lacrosse? I just don't see it.

Here are the current Pac-10 sports:

Baseball
Basketball
Cross Country
Football
Golf
Gymnastics
Rowing
Soccer
Softball
Swimming & Diving
Tennis
Track & Field
Volleyball
Wrestling

They also affiliate with the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation for other sports such as:

Men's Gymnastics
Men's Indoor Track & Field
Women's Indoor Track & Field
Women's Lacrosse
Men's Volleyball
Men's Water Polo
Women's Water Polo

The natural 1st adds for CU are Men's Tennis (conference sport) and Women's Lacrosse (MPSF sport). Those are inexpensive for us and are definitely the easiest for the 1st round.

I'd also look for the conference to take over the Indoor T&F. 8 of the schools already compete in Indoor and now they're adding CU. Good content for the P-12 Network.

 

[sackman]

You need a course in semantics. I understand your intent to parse the concept of a difficult decision about money and how to set the course as the primary problem. Bohn is challenged as you say. But adding sports is a huge part of the situation. This flies in the face of your statement that it is not about adding sports and that people don't get what you are trying to say. But I suppose if you carve out the persona of the "knower of all" you get to define your thread any way you want.

Semantics shemantics.

The whole purpose of the thread is to get feedback from folks as to what they think Bohn will do. He has two competing entities for these newfound riches. On the one hand, he looks at his current situation and sees that the department is in need of a lot of upgrades. Facilities, coaches salaries, etc. On the other hand, the guy who just negotiated on his behalf to triple his annual income is saying that he'd like to see us do something different with that money. So how does Bohn deal with this tightrope act? This was never about which sports we should add and why. It turned into that, which is what prompted the "you don't get it" comment.

 

[Buffarino]

you are correct, but usually baseball schollies are partial....so it's not a roster of full scholarships....at least that's my understanding.

Yeah, you're right there. But a softball team (most likely add-on with baseball) would need new facilities, too. And where would they even put them? Maybe south campus?

 

[Buffnik]

Semantics shemantics.

The whole purpose of the thread is to get feedback from folks as to what they think Bohn will do. He has two competing entities for these newfound riches. On the one hand, he looks at his current situation and sees that the department is in need of a lot of upgrades. Facilities, coaches salaries, etc. On the other hand, the guy who just negotiated on his behalf to triple his annual income is saying that he'd like to see us do something different with that money. So how does Bohn deal with this tightrope act? This was never about which sports we should add and why. It turned into that, which is what prompted the "you don't get it" comment.

Sacky,

The simple answer is that he needs to do both.

He needs to:

• Invest in the things that will make football and basketball as profitable as possible
• Invest in adding sports in the short term that have low start-up and maintenance costs while fitting the Pac-12 footprint
• Invest in the facilities, coaches and operating budgets that will increase the competitiveness of existing non-revenue sports
• Develop long-term plans for adding sports that may not be viable in the next 5 years, but would be great additions for CU and the Pac-12

He needs to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

[sackman]

Sacky,

The simple answer is that he needs to do both.

He needs to:

• Invest in the things that will make football and basketball as profitable as possible
• Invest in adding sports in the short term that have low start-up and maintenance costs while fitting the Pac-12 footprint
• Invest in the facilities, coaches and operating budgets that will increase the competitiveness of existing non-revenue sports
• Develop long-term plans for adding sports that may not be viable in the next 5 years, but would be great additions for CU and the Pac-12

He needs to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

agreed, but he can't do all those things at the same time. He needs to have a set of priorities. Reading between the lines, I think he'd prefer to take care of #1 on your list first and worry about everything else later. If he can go to Larry Scott and say "Look, these are the things we want to do over the next five years, and none of them have to do with adding sports, but once this is done, we'll look at adding some new sports to our mix", I think he'd be fine. That's very likely what he'll do. Will Larry Scott buy that?

 

[DBT]

Yeah, you're right there. But a softball team (most likely add-on with baseball) would need new facilities, too. And where would they even put them? Maybe south campus?

I would build a baseball/softball/track/soccer complex over at Potts Field. I'd redo whats there already and make a very nice complex.

 

[Buffnik]

agreed, but he can't do all those things at the same time. He needs to have a set of priorities. Reading between the lines, I think he'd prefer to take care of #1 on your list first and worry about everything else later. If he can go to Larry Scott and say "Look, these are the things we want to do over the next five years, and none of them have to do with adding sports, but once this is done, we'll look at adding some new sports to our mix", I think he'd be fine. That's very likely what he'll do. Will Larry Scott buy that?

I think we'll add Men's Tennis very quickly. Larry Scott is a Tennis guy and that would have been saved in 2006 with donors only coming up with $1 million for 3 years of operations. That's cheap, has so few scholarships that it doesn't mess with our Title IX balance, and it throws Scott a bone while we focus on other priorities.

 

[Buffnik]

I would build a baseball/softball/track/soccer complex over at Potts Field. I'd redo whats there already and make a very nice complex.

Except that the university plans to move Potts and Prentup off the East Campus so that they can expand the academic buildings over there. Got to look elsewhere.

 

[DBT]

We were ranked, like No. 3 in the nation, in rasslin' when we unceremoneously dropped it. Colorado High School is a hotbed for rasslers. That would be a possibility. I'm not a wrestling fan, but its also pretty popular in Colorado.

 

[Buffnik]

We were ranked, like No. 3 in the nation, in rasslin' when we unceremoneously dropped it. Colorado High School is a hotbed for rasslers. That would be a possibility. I'm not a wrestling fan, but its also pretty popular in Colorado.

It's a Pac-12 sport and it also makes sense for the reasons you mention. You'd need to add a women's sport to balance it for Title IX, though. Probably would go with Rowing, another Pac-12 sport that has a ton of scholarships it can give out. With Rowing's 20 against Wrestling's 9.9, we'd even have room to add Men's Volleyball at 4.5 while still falling on the women's side for Title IX considerations. Also, it would help to maximize the value of the Keg while justifying a renovation of Balch.

Here are the NCAA Scholarship limits by sport:

Men's Sports
Baseball 11.7
Basketball 13
Cross Country/Track and Field 12.6
Fencing 4.5
Football 85
Golf 4.5
Gymnastics 6.3
Ice Hockey 18
Lacrosse 12.6
Rifle 3.6
Skiing 6.3
Soccer 9.9
Swimming and Diving 9.9
Tennis 4.5
Volleyball 4.5
Water Polo 4.5
Wrestling 9.9


Women's Sports
Archery 5
Badminton 6
Basketball 15
Bowling 5
Cross Country/Track and Field 18
Equestrian 15
Fencing 5
Field Hockey 12
Golf 6
Gymnastics 12
Ice Hockey 18
Lacrosse 12
Rowing 20
Rugby 12
Skiing 7
Soccer 14
Softball 12
Squash 12
Swimming and Diving 14
Synchronized Swimming 5
Team Handball 10
Tennis 8
Volleyball 12
Water Polo 8

 

[sackman]

If you need to add a women's sport to go along with wrestling, I would suggest mud wrestling. Jell-o Wrestling would be good, too.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Larry Scott on CJ and Klatt says there we were no expectations for CU, but eventually would like to see CU add baseball as they are the only school without a baseball team.

I think a good time to add sports would be after we have reached a point where we are adding seats to Folsom.

 

[El Gringo]

Scott was just on with CJ & Klatt. Everything he said had been said before, but are worth reiterating here:

1 - CU's admission came with no conditions whatsoever to add any sports.
2 - CU will add a women's sport first, then evaluate if any other sports are viable.
3 - Scott would like to see Baseball (CU is the only school without), but the conference will be patient and let the school move at its own pace.

 

[Buffarino]

Scott was just on with CJ & Klatt. Everything he said had been said before, but are worth reiterating here:

1 - CU's admission came with no conditions whatsoever to add any sports.
2 - CU will add a women's sport first, then evaluate if any other sports are viable.
3 - Scott would like to see Baseball (CU is the only school without), but the conference will be patient and let the school move at its own pace.

And that is just another reason why Larry Scott is ****ing money. I have a serious mancrush on that guy.

 

[sackman]

That's very good to hear.

 

[KingPants]

Not major Olympic sports, but popular.
Rugby

Not that it will ever be varsity or big time, but rugby is now in the Olympics. Cal is already varsity, but they are about the only one.

 

[FlatironsBuff]

Larry Scott on CJ and Klatt says there we were no expectations for CU, but eventually would like to see CU add baseball as they are the only school without a baseball team.

I think a good time to add sports would be after we have reached a point where we are adding seats to Folsom.

Damn straight Larry!! CU Baseball!!! Woot!!!

 

[Folsom Field]

I heard The Camera's Ringo say on either The Ticket or The Fan say that CU is slightly out of balance with Title IX and that Women's LAX will be the first sport added at CU, with women's softball to follow. Only after those two sports would an additional men's program be considered to be added - most likely baseball.

I hope this happens - baseball at CU would be awesome!

 

[slider]

Would be a fan of CU baseball. Otherwise save the money and builid CU Football and Basketball. No need to spend extra money just to field an average team sport

 

[Johnny Juzang]

I hope he takes it nice and slowly. There's no rush to spend the money, and it would be a good idea to get a handle on the sports that already exist than rush into something new.

 

[DBT]

I hope he takes it nice and slowly. There's no rush to spend the money, and it would be a good idea to get a handle on the sports that already exist than rush into something new.

Read today's Denver Post. He's taking your advice. We have a lot of debt to pay off first, I guess. The problem for baseball appears to lie in the fact that there is no sugar daddy out there willing to donate toward a facility. It also sounds like, if and when they add a women's sport, it'll be lacrosse, not softball.

 

[Buffnik]

Here's the thing about baseball and softball. You have to build baseball and softball stadiums. Being conservative, let's say that you can build the baseball & softball facilities at the south campus (with parking, year round practice areas, etc.) and do it all for $20 million. We don't have that $20 million. And if we did, I'd rather see a permanent indoor training facility for football and indoor T&F go in along with improvements & upgrades to Folsom Field.

Baseball and softball are a long ways off, folks.

 

[sackman]

Here's the thing about baseball and softball. You have to build baseball and softball stadiums. Being conservative, let's say that you can build the baseball & softball facilities at the south campus (with parking, year round practice areas, etc.) and do it all for $20 million. We don't have that $20 million. And if we did, I'd rather see a permanent indoor training facility for football and indoor T&F go in along with improvements & upgrades to Folsom Field.

Baseball and softball are a long ways off, folks.

This.

Even so, I think it's part of a long range plan now. Whereas two years ago it was little more than a pipe dream.

 

[DBT]

Like we always lament, we need a big time sugar daddy and there ain't no sugar daddies out there. At my son's graduation, the speaker was some computer guy who'd made it big. "Something" Logic. He mentioned the Crok's guy, a CU grad, who's company has made over a billion. He didn't mention that Crok's went bankrupt, however. Why the hell can't CU produce a ****ing billionaire that loves sports?

 

[Deleted member 807]

Like we always lament, we need a big time sugar daddy and there ain't no sugar daddies out there. At my son's graduation, the speaker was some computer guy who'd made it big. "Something" Logic. He mentioned the Crok's guy, a CU grad, who's company has made over a billion. He didn't mention that Crok's went bankrupt, however. Why the hell can't CU produce a ****ing billionaire that loves sports?

:stupid:

 

[Buffnik]

fwiw, successful businesspeople from the Denver/Boulder area are as good or better booster targets than alumni. That group sees it as giving back to their community. Plus, they see it as a great way to network and establish their families in 'society' through future generations.

 

[MtnBuff]

Let's get back to Rino's initial question. What should the priorities within the AD be with the increase income.

We can get all excited about adding sports and I have my opinions about that as well (Men's side: Tennis first because it is cheap and easy, wrestling because it makes the most sense financially, interestwise, and competitively based on available Colorado athletes, baseball way down the list due to high cost of start-up and operation and no it would not be a revenue generator. Women's: Lacrosse, gymnastics, men and women swimming?)

Before we do all that though Bohn has some other things that need working on. We need to address pay for assistants in football and in a lot of other sports. CU is a place where a lot of quality coaches would love to be but with low pay and high living cost we lose a lot of quality assistants to other schools. We need to make major upgrades to a lot of the facilities especially for minor sports.

The biggest issue is to develop our financial stability for the future, that means to get out from under AD debts, build a up marketing efforts to enhance revenues especially for men's and women's basketball as well as women's volleyball. Also to develop our donor base specifically targeted to ongoing funding of the non-revenue sports. We then need to build up sufficient reserves to allow the AD to make and execute decisions without worrying about where the money comes from. I am not anticipating the issue to come up with Embree but when the AD had to get rid of Barnett it put a severe pinch on the budget, Hawkins got an extra year that we are still paying for on the field in part due to the question of the money for his payoff. If the AD has sufficient reserves to take neccessary steps without begging permission and money we will see long term benefits. It also means that the normal ups and downs don't put minor sports in a crunch every time we have dip in revenues.

 

[Maxer]

you have to imagine all those sports Cal just cut because they are losing their 14mm subsidy are coming back.

Those are all back -- there was a huge alumni outcry and a ton of money was raised -- enough to endow the programs for the foreseeable future (and the idea is for them to be endowed forever and not depend on the Athletic Department for funds at all -- I believe rugby is already there and baseball is close). This all happened before the new media deal was announced.

It's an interesting formula actually, one that I think is going to become more common -- non-revenue generating sports will be endowed privately, easing the pressure on the Athletic Departments. It happened at Cal first because of the budget crisis and to a lesser extent the incredibly vocal minority of faculty who are hostile to athletics.

Larry Scott doesn't seem to be pushing any schools (yet) but I think that eventually the pressure will come to bear on the schools with less sports (and who are getting a much larger windfall with the new deal, proportionate to their overall budgets) to offer more sports, to provide more content to the Pac-12 network. We shall see.

 

[Buffnik]

Maxer,

We are working toward the private endowment thing in creative ways, too. Our home golf course is a private club and the hope is that it will eventually endow all scholarships and pay for the coaches.

Something similar could be done for other sports, particularly skiing and tennis.

Lots of opportunities out there.