Mike MacIntyre officially takes Ole Miss DC job

[Liver]

So can $10,000,000.

i believe that you aren't recognizing some facts here. this was a contractual dispute. there is no good and no evil, usually, in a contract dispute. it is a business disagreement. there was enough money at stake that each party was prepared to try to protect their interests. based upon the language in the contract (and this is not a legal opinion, and i am not providing legal advice), i am not sure how you think it was likely that CU could have avoided paying mm ANY of the buyout. the man won 10 games 2 years ago. the contract was negotiated, at arm's length, in good faith, by competent, represented parties. i *wish* we didn't have to pay him, but that seemed an unlikely outcome, given the facts at hand.

 

[Darth Snow]

I love it when people give legal opinions or advice and say it's not what it is.

 

[f***bailer]

I love it when people give legal opinions or advice and say it's not what it is.

As your attorney, I advise you to take a hit out of the little brown flask in my shaving kit.

 

[hokiehead]

Well better than nothing.

Still pretty annoyed we allowed this to happen

in the context of the reputation and ranking of CU's law school, this point has strong validity. ambiguous language and unfavorably negotiated clauses don't reflect well on perception of CU's world class legal program.

OTOH, not that many people are paying attention to this outside of die-hard Buff fans.

"in business as in life, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate" - Charles Karrass

 

[Dark Bohner]

take the 3mm relief and move on.

They did.

 

[BuffsNYC]

in the context of the reputation and ranking of CU's law school, this point has strong validity. ambiguous language and unfavorably negotiated clauses don't reflect well on perception of CU's world class legal program.

OTOH, not that many people are paying attention to this outside of die-hard Buff fans.

"in business as in life, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate" - Charles Karrass

Dude, it's not like the CUAD is represented by the law school faculty. In fact, it would be insanity for any person or organization to engage professors to represent them. There's a reason they are professors, and unlike in many areas of study, being a professor pays way less than the private sector.

 

[hokiehead]

Dude, it's not like the CUAD is represented by the law school faculty. In fact, it would be insanity for any person or organization to engage professors to represent them. There's a reason they are professors, and unlike in many areas of study, being a professor pays way less than the private sector.

I hear you, but to offer an analogy in counter: my dentist doesn't work on himself, but it would still lead to lower perception of his work performance if he had bad teeth

 

[leftybuff]

in the context of the reputation and ranking of CU's law school, this point has strong validity. ambiguous language and unfavorably negotiated clauses don't reflect well on perception of CU's world class legal program.

OTOH, not that many people are paying attention to this outside of die-hard Buff fans.

"in business as in life, you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate" - Charles Karrass

A little George Bernard Shaw fits: Those who can do, those who can't teach. NYC beat me to it, but you don't hire law professors to get in the legal trenches, unless you are Colorado and you are looking for an AG.

 

[pcbuff]

3 mil probably pays for soccer. It is a big recovery. As a guy who spent several years buying equipment for some club sports, 3 mil could go a long way. College sports are huge business and if sucks to see a coach who didn’t work out walk away with a parachute, but others have made much bigger mistakes. It’s not like we approved a 70 yard field or something.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

Well better than nothing.

Still pretty annoyed we allowed this to happen

You can thank Rick George for not firing him, then extending him, right after that extension firing him, and now negotiating a settlement with him.

Leadership.

Also, you’re in the wrong line of work...

I guess. CEO and CFB coach seem to be the two jobs where failure is rewarded with a huge buyout.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Buffnik]

You can thank Rick George for not firing him, then extending him, right after that extension firing him, and now negotiating a settlement with him.

Leadership.

Also, you’re in the wrong line of work...


Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

It was a worthwhile roll of the dice. Most important thing is that the enthusiasm after the success of the 2016 season allowed RG to reset the pay scale for the CU football head coach. In one stroke, we went from being a laughingstock school that paid like a G5 school to offering a salary that was at least in the low-mid range for the P5. Didn't work out with MM, but that important precedent and change to the budget model was set. In the long run, that is going to end up being a hell of a lot more important than a couple years of belt tightening for the buyout.

 

[ahoelsken]

It was a worthwhile roll of the dice. Most important thing is that the enthusiasm after the success of the 2016 season allowed RG to reset the pay scale for the CU football head coach. In one stroke, we went from being a laughingstock school that paid like a G5 school to offering a salary that was at least in the low-mid range for the P5. Didn't work out with MM, but that important precedent and change to the budget model was set. In the long run, that is going to end up being a hell of a lot more important than a couple years of belt tightening for the buyout.

For Nik or somebody who remembers this-what was D2's deal when he took over here in 12/05? My memory might be a little off-but I don't think we drastically underpaid a guy who was then seen as the hottest G5 coach on the market. The easiest analogy to my line of thinking is the Rockies' not signing a front of the line free agent starting pitcher in 20 years-you assume they'll fail, so you pay him as little as you can (or in that case not even bother). I think the failure that he was gave allowed Buffs4Life to get their guy in JE (who compounded the issues from the Squawk era-we were the worst major conference team in 2012 when FHCMM got here) and I think we got one of the few guys who would take this gig after the foodcart incident and the 2012 season in FHCMM.

I don't think anybody disagrees that it was a worthwhile roll of the dice, Nik, but I also don't remember Texas and LSU (Both of whom had eyes for Tom Herman IMO) being that interested in MM after 2016. He was probably staying one way or the other.

At the end of the day though, this conversation doesn't matter if CMT wins.

 

[Duff Man]

Hawkins was not well paid for a BCS conference coach. He actually was paid significantly less than Barnett.

 

[FLounder]

Hawkins was not well paid for a BCS conference coach. He actually was paid significantly less than Barnett.

You truly get what you pay for. CU has been paying for the cheapest hooker for a while, hopefully HCMT is our Dr.Sebi and can eradicate our prestigious program of its diseases.

 

[Darth Snow]

Per Wilner, it looks like ASU's AD is even dumber than RG in this area.

Doesn't appear to have been a mitigation clause in Todd Graham's contract with ASU. The Devils are paying him the full $12.8 million even though he took the Hawaii job.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Per Wilner, it looks like ASU's AD is even dumber than RG in this area.

WTF? Are we sure this is just ****ty AD lawyering, or has it become an accepted perk for P5 head coaches?

 

[Blackdynamite]

It's like the ending to Office Space

 

[Buffnik]

WTF? Are we sure this is just ****ty AD lawyering, or has it become an accepted perk for P5 head coaches?

If so, it's way skewed how much leverage coaches have in negotiations. They're basically saying, "Pay me millions, allow me to leave for greener pastures with no penalty if I decide it's in my best interest, and guarantee my entire contract without restriction if I don't perform up to expectations and you choose to fire me." Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

 

[BuffsNYC]

If so, it's way skewed how much leverage coaches have in negotiations. They're basically saying, "Pay me millions, allow me to leave for greener pastures with no penalty if I decide it's in my best interest, and guarantee my entire contract without restriction if I don't perform up to expectations and you choose to fire me." Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

I'm not sure that coaches are being relieved of having to pay damages for leaving before their contract is up. We all remember what CSU did to Sparkles.

 

[Buffnik]

I'm not sure that coaches are being relieved of having to pay damages for leaving before their contract is up. We all remember what CSU did to Sparkles.

Even if they don't have the leverage to get that, they have the leverage on the other end to get their new job to pay the contract exit fees. iirc, UF negotiated it down by giving CSU a bodybag game in Gainesville at their standard payout for P5 visitors.

 

[Highlander]

If so, it's way skewed how much leverage coaches have in negotiations. They're basically saying, "Pay me millions, allow me to leave for greener pastures with no penalty if I decide it's in my best interest, and guarantee my entire contract without restriction if I don't perform up to expectations and you choose to fire me." Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

It isn't uncommon for C-level contracts in business for someone in demand. Makes sense it applies to high performing coaches as well.

 

[Buffnik]

It isn't uncommon for C-level contracts in business for someone in demand. Makes sense it applies to high performing coaches as well.

Yep. Mostly because the people doing the hiring (in both cases) are so filled with excitement about the enhanced results they're envisioning with that new sheriff in town that they don't unemotionally look at downside risk and the actual data on how rarely things work out the way they are hoping/expecting.

 

[ahoelsken]

It was a worthwhile roll of the dice. Most important thing is that the enthusiasm after the success of the 2016 season allowed RG to reset the pay scale for the CU football head coach. In one stroke, we went from being a laughingstock school that paid like a G5 school to offering a salary that was at least in the low-mid range for the P5. Didn't work out with MM, but that important precedent and change to the budget model was set. In the long run, that is going to end up being a hell of a lot more important than a couple years of belt tightening for the buyout.

Here's what I haven't seen in this thread, and where I think we shot ourselves in the foot-According to his contract, CU was liable for the entirety of the $10.3M if he took a Power 5 coordinator job, but his salary had he taken the (insert name of Group of 5 HC job here) would have been automatically removed from the buyout. Given he agreed to a $4.5M/3 year deal with Ole Miss, we could have probably saved another $1.2M (10.3M - 4.5M=$5.8M in buyout money over the time left on the contract) instead of having to settle at $7M by including language in his contract that would have automatically taken CU off the hook for the $4.5M he agreed to with Ole Miss when he went there. The vast majority of the Group of 5 HC positions don't pay this type of money-Steve Addazio (making $1.5m as a base in Fort Fun) and I'd be hard pressed to find a G5 opening from the 2018-19 carousel that topped that figure other than maybe Gary Anderson. We cost ourselves at least $1M I'd bet with this mistake.

 

[leftybuff]

If so, it's way skewed how much leverage coaches have in negotiations. They're basically saying, "Pay me millions, allow me to leave for greener pastures with no penalty if I decide it's in my best interest, and guarantee my entire contract without restriction if I don't perform up to expectations and you choose to fire me." Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

I know one AD who is pushing back. It remains to be seen his viewpoint gains traction.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Here's what I haven't seen in this thread, and where I think we shot ourselves in the foot-According to his contract, CU was liable for the entirety of the $10.3M if he took a Power 5 coordinator job, but his salary had he taken the (insert name of Group of 5 HC job here) would have been automatically removed from the buyout. Given he agreed to a $4.5M/3 year deal with Ole Miss, we could have probably saved another $1.2M (10.3M - 4.5M=$5.8M in buyout money over the time left on the contract) instead of having to settle at $7M by including language in his contract that would have automatically taken CU off the hook for the $4.5M he agreed to with Ole Miss when he went there. The vast majority of the Group of 5 HC positions don't pay this type of money-Steve Addazio (making $1.5m as a base in Fort Fun) and I'd be hard pressed to find a G5 opening from the 2018-19 carousel that topped that figure other than maybe Gary Anderson. We cost ourselves at least $1M I'd bet with this mistake.

As I recall, the contract language was unclear. Money he earned as a head coach explicitly offset what CU owed, but the contract was silent as to other employment.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

I know one AD who is pushing back. It remains to be seen his viewpoint gains traction.

Can a public school AD bring forth the legal powers that private agents have?

Coaches have time on their side to get what they want in the deal. ADs do not because the recruiting clock is always ticking.

 

[leftybuff]

Can a public school AD bring forth the legal powers that private agents have?

Coaches have time on their side to get what they want in the deal. ADs do not because the recruiting clock is always ticking.

I should say I know of an AD, it isn't like I know the guy, but Hunter Yurachek, supposedly passed on a few coaches because he was not going to tie Arky to a huge buyout. Second hand, of course, but if a SEC school is starting to pull back, that seems significant. It is possible they are an outlier, and will remain so, but Pittman's contract has somewhat sane buyout provisions. If Arky dumps Pittman, and he has a .500 or better record, they owe 75% of the contract. If he is sub-.500, they owe 50%.

We'll see.

 

[Buffnik]

I should say I know of an AD, it isn't like I know the guy, but Hunter Yurachek, supposedly passed on a few coaches because he was not going to tie Arky to a huge buyout. Second hand, of course, but if a SEC school is starting to pull back, that seems significant. It is possible they are an outlier, and will remain so, but Pittman's contract has somewhat sane buyout provisions. If Arky dumps Pittman, and he has a .500 or better record, they owe 75% of the contract. If he is sub-.500, they owe 50%.

We'll see.

Also, Winer wrote something today about the Pac-12 generally being against the coach salary escalation from the arms race. WSU has the only HC who was poached from another HC job. The other 11 were either internal promotions, coordinators or out of work.