Nate Tomlinson to George Mason

[BuffsNYC]

Is anyone else sort of "not comfortable", or "confused", about why these kids are being directed to transfer out of the program right now? I realize that Tad has only a couple of scholarships available, but would it not have been good for Walton and then perhaps Horne or Schwartz to come back to help mentor these very talented but also very young kids coming in? And I'm also a little confused as to why Tad is just allowing Nate, in many ways one of his best assistant coaches and one who can really directly relate to players, leave the program as if it's just no big deal; to George Mason of all places! This all seems very counterintuitive and baffling to me.

I hear and understand all of the "it shows growth for the program" comments, but my god, you just let a good quality assistant coach leave, one who has good direct rapport with your players, and with what appears to be basically no fight about it. And you're then letting some really good players, who could otherwise really help next years team, just walk and go somewhere else.

My impression is that Tad is a truth teller with athletes and coaches. Good players have left CU in the past. Strong evidence exists that this happens after Tad sits down with them and tells them exactly what he thinks next season would look like for them if they remained in Boulder. I have zero problem with this and think it makes for a happier team. Ask yourself how Schwartz would feel if his role were unexpectedly reduced next season?

 

[coereg]

Nate was the low man on the totem pole in the order of assistants here. This is a promotion for him. The players "transferring" is happening across the country because of the free year of eligibility provided by the NCAA. They have been here for 4 years (1 grad transfer eligibility year for Horne), there was absolutely no expectation of them being here next year. As has been explained elsewhere, Dallas and DShawn are also guarenteed to have a 2 year grad program paid for at another school, the way the rules work they can only be provided one year here.

In summary, there is nothing to be concerned about and you're only baffled if you haven't been paying attention and just want to bitch about something.

Lol ... yeah I was bitching beyond belief.

Yes I do pay attention and I follow the Daily Camera, daily (no pun intended), and I read Pat Rooney's columns. I just simply misunderstood the above "grad program and transfer" eligibility rules, which I feel is totally understandable. I thank you for further clarifying that information. This now makes sense, and I understood that I was probably missing something here. Prior to having that knowledge, it WAS quite baffling to me that these kids would be allowed to transfer out, only to then turn around to probably spend your two remaining scholarships on other Grad or perhaps even JUCO transfers from elsewhere.

As for Nate, I understand that this is a promotion. He is a good up and coming coach who I believe has a very unique skill at relating really well to individual players. "Relating really well to players" being the most important part of that comment. It is my observation and opinion that he may (might) be better at relating to players than perhaps most others, and maybe was deserving of a similar promotion here. I'm assuming that Tad had no wiggle room, so I understand the career move by Nate. I'm just saying! As a coach myself for 17 years now, one can never put a price on coaches who can help build that little extra rapport with players, and can be of help with outside matters or perhaps personal matters, that players would otherwise be uncomfortable coming to the primary coach(es) with. Things can be very fragile when it comes to growth and togetherness of teams, and one loss here and there can really affect things. Every fine detail matters! Sometimes that "low man on the totem pole", and those folks often get overlooked, made more of a difference that one initially realizes.

 

[torero]

Lol ... yeah I was bitching beyond belief.

Yes I do pay attention and I follow the Daily Camera, daily (no pun intended), and I read Pat Rooney's columns. I just simply misunderstood the above "grad program and transfer" eligibility rules, which I feel is totally understandable. I thank you for further clarifying that information. This now makes sense, and I understood that I was probably missing something here. Prior to having that knowledge, it WAS quite baffling to me that these kids would be allowed to transfer out, only to then turn around to probably spend your two remaining scholarships on other Grad or perhaps even JUCO transfers from elsewhere.

As for Nate, I understand that this is a promotion. He is a good up and coming coach who I believe has a very unique skill at relating really well to individual players. "Relating really well to players" being the most important part of that comment. It is my observation and opinion that he may (might) be better at relating to players than perhaps most others, and maybe was deserving of a similar promotion here. I'm assuming that Tad had no wiggle room, so I understand the career move by Nate. I'm just saying! As a coach myself for 17 years now, one can never put a price on coaches who can help build that little extra rapport with players, and can be of help with outside matters or perhaps personal matters, that players would otherwise be uncomfortable coming to the primary coach(es) with. Things can be very fragile when it comes to growth and togetherness of teams, and one loss here and there can really affect things. Every fine detail matters! Sometimes that "low man on the totem pole", and those folks often get overlooked, made more of a difference that one initially realizes.

Nothing against Rooney, but I haven't read the Daily Camera for Buffs news in like ten years. It is worth following Rooney on twitter for what it's worth.

 

[manhattanbuff]

One of my biggest critiques of TB was his seeming unwillingness to be more cutthroat on the trail and in program management. It seems like he’s now found a good balance between nice guy and coach who wants to seize his chance to win big. I for one welcome this iteration of the head BBall coach.

 

[RiverBuff]

Nothing against Rooney, but I haven't read the Daily Camera for Buffs news in like ten years. It is worth following Rooney on twitter for what it's worth.

I have it "against" the Boulder Camera. They've really raised subscription prices and the quality of journalism has gone way down.

Rooney and Howell only regurgitate stats and the players and coaches quotes or twitter posts. They bring no analysis or creative writing.

 

[FM-Buff]

Is anyone else sort of "not comfortable", or "confused", about why these kids are being directed to transfer out of the program right now? I realize that Tad has only a couple of scholarships available, but would it not have been good for Walton and then perhaps Horne or Schwartz to come back to help mentor these very talented but also very young kids coming in? And I'm also a little confused as to why Tad is just allowing Nate, in many ways one of his best assistant coaches and one who can really directly relate to players, leave the program as if it's just no big deal; to George Mason of all places! This all seems very counterintuitive and baffling to me.

I hear and understand all of the "it shows growth for the program" comments, but my god, you just let a good quality assistant coach leave, one who has good direct rapport with your players, and with what appears to be basically no fight about it. And you're then letting some really good players, who could otherwise really help next years team, just walk and go somewhere else.

I am 0% concerned. If this was a normal year and all these guys were transferring out, then yeah it would be concerning. But these guys wouldn't be eligible under normal circumstances. It's time to move on and begin developing the young guys for the future.

 

[Heywood]

Nate was the low man on the totem pole in the order of assistants here. This is a promotion for him. The players "transferring" is happening across the country because of the free year of eligibility provided by the NCAA. They have been here for 4 years (1 grad transfer eligibility year for Horne), there was absolutely no expectation of them being here next year. As has been explained elsewhere, Dallas and DShawn are also guarenteed to have a 2 year grad program paid for at another school, the way the rules work they can only be provided one year here.

In summary, there is nothing to be concerned about and you're only baffled if you haven't been paying attention and just want to bitch about something.

First, let's address the players transferring.

1.) Nowhere is it being said that these kids are being directed to transfer out of the program right now. They all decided to transfer. They all graduated and now can go to school somewhere else for free. If they stayed at CU, they would get one more year of school paid for. If they transfer for a grad program, they get two years paid for even though they're only playing for one year.

2.) There are grad programs that CU doesn't offer. Entirely possible that these guys realize the NBA isn't calling and they want to get a fallback degree in something they love for when their stint in Europe/elsewhere is over playing hoops.

3.) By all accounts, Schwartz and English were pretty close. English is getting a chance to launch his career with a good school. Schwartz knows he can contribute to that and get a grad degree while playing under someone he likes.

4.) There are currently over 1,000 kids in the transfer portal. There are 357 programs in D1. That means that on average there are 2.8 kids from each school in the portal. If you want to count Stratling, we have four scholarship kids that are in there. Hardly a mass exodus. We're not Cincinnati.

5.) We are bringing in the #12 recruiting class in the nation. Two of them are borderline top 50 recruits. Those type of recruits don't come in to ride the bench for a year. You can pencil in 15 mpg for both of them IMMEDIATELY. Hopefully more, but I'm not gonna put that pressure on them. We also have a freshman who played 15 mpg for us this year and garnered NBA buzz. TDS played quality minutes and showed he's ready for more than the 10 mpg he got last year. And lots of people are still high on O'Brien and Clifford. So would you rather have Dallas stick around for another year - when you know it's his last year - to play 15 mpg again and Horne to play 25 mpg or would you rather give those 40 mpg to be divided among TDS, Jabari and Lovering who you hopefully will have for 2+ each? Jabari, Walton, Horne and TDS all played a combined 65 minutes per game last year. Whose minutes are you taking to give to Lovering? And how badly are you going to be skewered on the recruiting trail if you bring in a top 50 recruit and don't play him? Big picture.

6.) Finally, WE DON'T KNOW WHY THEY'RE TRANSFERRING. By all accounts, Horne appeared to love his time here at CU. He decided to go back to Tulsa. I speculated in the transfer portal thread that he probably came here realizing he had one year to try to grab NBA attention. He came close, but didn't get it. So he could either stay here for one year (and still not get enough NBA buzz) or go back to Tulsa where he apparently loved it and get two years of school paid for. How is this something negative that CU did? D'Shawn and Dallas have lived their entire lives in Colorado - maybe they want to see the country on someone else's dime? Stratling didn't get playing time this year, why would he next year when we're BETTER up front? Why not go somewhere, get some burn and get two years of school paid for?

Now on to Nate:

1.) Nate isn't an assistant coach. He's a director of player development. This is a stepping stone job and one that Nate was damn good at. He works not only on the basketball side helping to schedule games, but he helps with academic setups. Again, this is not an assistant coach job.

2.) We currently have Mike Rohn (Tad's right hand man), Bill Grier (former head coach of San Diego, and assistant at Gonzaga and Oklahoma State) and Rick Ray (former Mississippi St head coach) as our assistant coaches. Who would you recommend firing to move Nate up to a coaching role?

3.) You pooh pooh it, but THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE IN NATE'S POSITION ARE DESIGNED TO DO. They move on. They gain experience. There is ZERO downside here. I guaran-damn-tee that he's not going to cut off communication with the staff here. We're going to see recruits that don't fit for us and give Nate the heads up. Nate's going to see recruits he can't land and give us the heads up. Both will work together. I'm guessing that if Nate, Kim, D'Shawn and Dallas are all at George Mason next year we can start figuring out where on the schedule it is that they will come visit the Keg for a game. And when (not if) Nate is killing it in a few years, do you think he's really going to turn Tad down if Tad calls and wants him to come back because Ray landed a head coaching gig somewhere?

My God, we're finally having things that show that we're a legit P5 program for once and people are bitching. I don't get it.

EDIT - and apparently I was typing for a long time as @torerobuff already did a much more succinct reply.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

I think these extra years are also a problem for normal program development, and while it seems exciting to have some of them back, the only player that if he wanted to come back you would accept was Kin, and he is NBA Bound. The others, as much as I absolutely love them, the ceilings have been met. The new guys, along with a great transfer or two, plus the returning starters, especially Parquet, Battey, Walker, Da Silva it makes more sense to keep on the original master plan for the program. Good luck to all the guys and thank you for a memorable season!

 

[GoBuffs!!]

I am curious how these guys sticking around for an extra year, or transferring for a year will impact the future. I think that if I was a freshman coming in having all these guys ahead of you taking minutes would be frustrating.

A problem for the entirety of college basketball, not just a single program.

If I understand correctly, everyone in college this past year gets a "free year", so you basically have double the freshman class next year

 

[Buffnik]

You guys don't have @Goose on ignore? Weird.

 

[Goose]

Now official. I probably can't ever rationally discuss Nate. Love the guy. One of my all time favorite Buffs - despite the resemblance to @Darth Snow . You just know Nate is gonna crush it too and make it as a coach. So happy for him.

 

[SewallBeach]

 

[cu3x]

I guessed DW would follow Nate, but it's Wake Forrest.

 

[cu3x]

So Tad likes the normal player development routine. But, he let's Horne go, to pursue an unknown transfer. I don't like it. From BuffZone:

"Boyle still has yet to fill the open spots on his roster during the spring recruiting period. CU has two scholarships to work with and is expected to land at least one transfer, targeting a wing player on the transfer market."

 

[Buffnik]

So Tad likes the normal player development routine. But, he let's Horne go, to pursue an unknown transfer. I don't like it. From BuffZone:

"Boyle still has yet to fill the open spots on his roster during the spring recruiting period. CU has two scholarships to work with and is expected to land at least one transfer, targeting a wing player on the transfer market."

We really need wing depth.

Horne can't guard a wing and I'm not sure he would have come back to come off the bench at the 4.

 

[cu3x]

We really need wing depth.

Horne can't guard a wing and I'm not sure he would have come back to come off the bench at the 4.

You may be right, but he'll be lucky to find a transfer who will contribute like Horne did. Plus, I like Horne, and Walton will lose his 1-liner.

 

[torero]

But, he let's Horne go,

I'm hearing this phrasing a lot. What's the alternative? "No, you have to stay here, player who is going to transfer". The decision was almost certainly mutual, Tad says you should probably go, it's best for you, and Horne, for example, goes to a place where he's very comfortable.

Once again, there are like 1000 players in the transfer portal this year. There's 300some NCAA teams. This is happening EVERYWHERE.

 

[cu3x]

I'm hearing this phrasing a lot. What's the alternative? "No, you have to stay here, player who is going to transfer". The decision was almost certainly mutual, Tad says you should probably go, it's best for you, and Horne, for example, goes to a place where he's very comfortable.

Once again, there are like 1000 players in the transfer portal this year. There's 300some NCAA teams. This is happening EVERYWHERE.

Horne will be in his 2nd year of a Masters program, right? Very few would want to transfer to a new academic program. Q is, did he want to stay. My guess is 'yes'

 

[Goose]

Horne will be in his 2nd year of a Masters program, right? Very few would want to transfer to a new academic program. Q is, did he want to stay. My guess is 'yes'

Or he could have finished his grad program and realized he could have gotten another 2 years paid for in something that interests him at Tulsa.

Or he could have realized that the grad program he was at here isn't for him.

Or he could just miss his friends at Tulsa.

Or he could have decided "I want to be THE MAN on a team and I can't do that here"

Or...

Or...

Or...

Why people keep looking for reasons that things could be bad when there are millions of possibilities and thousands of other players doing the exact same thing is absolutely mind boggling to me.

 

[Scotch]

Tad learned his lesson with relying on multiple 5th year guys to play major minutes(think the '16-'17 season). Roster management has definitely improved since then. As much as I loved the outgoing players, bring on the youth movement!

 

[Buffnik]

Or he could have finished his grad program and realized he could have gotten another 2 years paid for in something that interests him at Tulsa.

Or he could have realized that the grad program he was at here isn't for him.

Or he could just miss his friends at Tulsa.

Or he could have decided "I want to be THE MAN on a team and I can't do that here"

Or...

Or...

Or...

Why people keep looking for reasons that things could be bad when there are millions of possibilities and thousands of other players doing the exact same thing is absolutely mind boggling to me.

Nope. If anyone transfers out it means mismanagement. This is how I know that Mark Few sucks. He just lost 2 guys to the portal.

 

[cu3x]

Or he could have finished his grad program and realized he could have gotten another 2 years paid for in something that interests him at Tulsa.

Or he could have realized that the grad program he was at here isn't for him.

Or he could just miss his friends at Tulsa.

Or he could have decided "I want to be THE MAN on a team and I can't do that here"

Or...

Or...

Or...

Why people keep looking for reasons that things could be bad when there are millions of possibilities and thousands of other players doing the exact same thing is absolutely mind boggling to me.

Silly post IMO. These boards are fueled by interested speculation, and I don't see "bad" motives being posted

 

[Buffsbball]

Silly post IMO. These boards are fueled by interested speculation, and I don't see "bad" motives being posted

You think it’s silly because it contradicted your point. @Goose reasoning stands here. It doesn’t matter why. It’s happening all over, and we have plenty of young/talented guys that will get a lot more minutes because of it. We needed Horne last year, not this year.

 

[Robert Sorell]

George Mason is officially my second rooting interest. Good news for Nate and Kim. Looking forward to seeing what D'Shawn does this season too.

 

[Bison]

Now that's a team I'd want to keep tabs on.