NCAA board voting today on P5 "autonomy"

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

So you're thinking the non-power conference schools will band together and vote this out?

I don't claim to know all the mechanisms for making and changing rules in the NCAA. But a cursory review of the NCAA bylaws and NCAA constitution indicates that it takes a 2/3 vote of the member institutions to make significant rule changes. Would the creation of an entirely new "division" for NCAA football require a 2/3 vote?

There are over 1,000 schools in the NCAA. Division I contains 340 teams, of which 126 are "FBS" and 122 are "FCS". The "P5" conferences consist of 65 teams - a little more than 1/2 of the current "FBS" teams.

This type of significant rules change brings about many questions for me. How many schools get to vote to decide such changes? Does the entirety of the NCAA membership (1,000+ schools) vote? Do only the Division I members (340 schools) vote? Do only the FBS members (126 schools) vote?

 

[sackman]

I don't claim to know all the mechanisms for making and changing rules in the NCAA. But a cursory review of the NCAA bylaws and NCAA constitution indicates that it takes a 2/3 vote of the member institutions to make significant rule changes. Would the creation of an entirely new "division" for NCAA football require a 2/3 vote?

There are over 1,000 schools in the NCAA. Division I contains 340 teams, of which 126 are "FBS" and 122 are "FCS". The "P5" conferences consist of 65 teams - a little more than 1/2 of the current "FBS" teams.

This type of significant rules change brings about many questions for me. How many schools get to vote to decide such changes? Does the entirety of the NCAA membership (1,000+ schools) vote? Do only the Division I members (340 schools) vote? Do only the FBS members (126 schools) vote?

All good questions, but in the end, I don't think any of that matters. This appears to be a shot across the bow of the NCAA from the P5. The NCAA knows who butters it's bread, so to speak. And if they don't, they're about to find out.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

So, did the vote take place?

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

All good questions, but in the end, I don't think any of that matters. This appears to be a shot across the bow of the NCAA from the P5. The NCAA knows who butters it's bread, so to speak. And if they don't, they're about to find out.

How do you figure?

Only a third of the 1,000+ NCAA schools give a flying **** about scholarship football. I doubt the remaining 700+ schools are very concerned. They don't get the P5 money anyway; never have, never will.

The P5 schools just need to leave the NCAA and do their own semi-professional thing.

 

[sackman]

How do you figure?

Only a third of the 1,000+ NCAA schools give a flying **** about scholarship football. I doubt the remaining 700+ schools are very concerned. They don't get the P5 money anyway; never have, never will.

The P5 schools just need to leave the NCAA and do their own semi-professional thing.

You answered your own question. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to bend the will of the NCAA in the favor of the P5. The NCAA has a lot of good reasons to comply. The P5 would rather not reinvent the wheel, but is willing to do so if need be. Just as the rest of the 1,000+ NCAA schools don't give a flying **** about scholarship football, the ones paying the bills most certainly do. The schools that control the money are the P5 schools, and they don't give a flying **** what the rest of the NCAA member schools think.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

You answered your own question. I view this as nothing more than an attempt to bend the will of the NCAA in the favor of the P5. The NCAA has a lot of good reasons to comply. The P5 would rather not reinvent the wheel, but is willing to do so if need be. Just as the rest of the 1,000+ NCAA schools don't give a flying **** about scholarship football, the ones paying the bills most certainly do. The schools that control the money are the P5 schools, and they don't give a flying **** what the rest of the NCAA member schools think.

I disagree completely. The NCAA is much more than football, and certainly much much more than scholarship football. D-II and D-III schools don't get any benefit from the BCS or all the huge television contracts - but they do benefit from the NCAA. There are a lot more schools in the NCAA who fall into that category than there are schools like Alabama, Texas, etc.

It is certainly clear that the P5 schools don't care about the NCAA - which is why they should leave it. The remaining 900+ schools will continue to enjoy success under the NCAA and it's structure. The NCAA will live on without the P5 schools.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

The remaining 900+ schools will continue to enjoy success under the NCAA and it's structure. The NCAA will live on without the P5 schools.

Good news lamb fans!

 

[skibum]

It still takes 2/3 vote to make such a major change to the rules - that applies to NCAA basketball, as well.

But it doesn't take a 2/3 vote for the P5 to just leave. "Hey little guys, here's your choice: you either agree to this, or we will withdraw our collective memberships, and go form the new National University Athletics Association for which we will write all the rules - you'll be able to join the NUAA, but trust us, you'll wish you had just voted the right way in the old NCAA structure."

Now, obviously it's actually better for the P5 to stay in the current organization than to go nuclear and create a whole new organization, and so they might not get everything they want. But at the end of the day, the P5 CAN leave, and they DO actually have the resources to create a new organization. So, it's a credible threat. Without the P5, the NCAA is nothing but a glorified NAIA.

The P5 won't get everything they want, but the little guys will assuredly give them enough so that staying in is better than leaving.

 

[skibum]

Quick addendum: an inordinately huge percentage of the NCAA's budget comes from the men's basketball tournament. That money subsidizes a ton of things that the D2 & D3 schools utilize. If the P5 leave, and the NIT becomes the premier post season tournament (again), what happens? Where does the funding come from to put on the the DII Lacrosse national championship?

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Quick addendum: an inordinately huge percentage of the NCAA's budget comes from the men's basketball tournament. That money subsidizes a ton of things that the D2 & D3 schools utilize. If the P5 leave, and the NIT becomes the premier post season tournament (again), what happens? Where does the funding come from to put on the the DII Lacrosse national championship?

So you think if the P5 schools leave, the NCAA is somehow divested of it's rights to the NCAA basketball tournament?

 

[Darth Snow]

So you think if the P5 schools leave, the NCAA is somehow divested of it's rights to the NCAA basketball tournament?

nope, but they are divested of 85% of the revenue generating teams for that tournament.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

nope, but they are divested of 85% of the revenue generating teams for that tournament.

The NCAA tournament champion was not from a P5 conference. The NCAA tournament is full of teams who meet that bill. Look back at the last 10 Final Fours - plenty of schools who were not in P5 conferences. That is what makes the NCAA tournament so amazing.

I think it is more likely that the P5 conferences drop from NCAA football only. I doubt Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana, Duke, etc. want to give up their spot in basketball history. Not to mention the basketball revenue those schools generate.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

The NCAA tournament champion was not from a P5 conference. The NCAA tournament is full of teams who meet that bill. Look back at the last 10 Final Fours - plenty of schools who were not in P5 conferences. That is what makes the NCAA tournament so amazing.

I think it is more likely that the P5 conferences drop from NCAA football only. I doubt Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana, Duke, etc. want to give up their spot in basketball history. Not to mention the basketball revenue those schools generate.

Its amazing because those schools come to the tournament and compete with the P5 schools. Will that allure remain when/if the P5 teams leave? I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[Darth Snow]

The NCAA tournament champion was not from a P5 conference. The NCAA tournament is full of teams who meet that bill. Look back at the last 10 Final Fours - plenty of schools who were not in P5 conferences. That is what makes the NCAA tournament so amazing.

I think it is more likely that the P5 conferences drop from NCAA football only. I doubt Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana, Duke, etc. want to give up their spot in basketball history. Not to mention the basketball revenue those schools generate.

note the 85% there. I agree. no real benefit to dropping out of the tourney. At least, not until the P5 do an analysis of whether they could keep the pie the same while dropping the number of slices that come out of it...

 

[hokiehead]

Occurs to me that if the p5 conferences maintain the NCAA tourney with it's current structure of > 64 teams, everyone gets in!

 

[sackman]

I disagree completely. The NCAA is much more than football, and certainly much much more than scholarship football. D-II and D-III schools don't get any benefit from the BCS or all the huge television contracts - but they do benefit from the NCAA. There are a lot more schools in the NCAA who fall into that category than there are schools like Alabama, Texas, etc.

It is certainly clear that the P5 schools don't care about the NCAA - which is why they should leave it. The remaining 900+ schools will continue to enjoy success under the NCAA and it's structure. The NCAA will live on without the P5 schools.

Why leave it if they can simply bully the NCAA into compliance with their agenda? You keep saying the P5 should leave. There's no reason to leave if the NCAA caves. And the NCAA will cave, make no mistake.


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[BuffWarHog]

I think this sucks. It gets us further away from college sports being amateur. The players deserve more for sure, but I would prefer to see this solved another way. Frankly I would like to see hoops and football adjusted to the same model as college baseball and hockey. There should be viable professional avenues for these kids to chose versus college when coming out of high school (for football and basketball). I understand this would fundamentally change both collegiate sports, but I think it solves a lot of issues (including paying players and actually enrolling kids interested in academics). The NCAA as an amateur institution as it relates to football and basketball is a joke. These kids are exploited to a ridiculous level. /soapbox

Back to reality since the above will never happen due to $. I don't want to see the non P5 schools shut out.


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This 100%. If you could play minor league football straight out if high school, that would alleviate a ton of problems (not the least if which would be more STUDENT athletes who actually want the education) and bring the sport back to it's more pure/armature form. I wasn't alive in the 60s, but that seemed like some pretty badass football.


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[Deleted member 807]

This 100%. If you could play minor league football straight out if high school, that would alleviate a ton of problems (not the least if which would be more STUDENT athletes who actually want the education) and bring the sport back to it's more pure/armature form. I wasn't alive in the 60s, but that seemed like some pretty badass football.

Doesn't a similar brand of "badass" Student-Athlete football still exist at places like School of Mines, CSU Pueblo, UNC, and AFA?

 

[BuffWarHog]

Doesn't a similar brand of "badass" Student-Athlete football still exist at places like School of Mines, CSU Pueblo, UNC, and AFA?

I see what you did there. But, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about big time college football where they lined up student athlete v student athlete. Not like the current SEC freakshows that have no intention of receiving an education. (This isn't me saying I want everyone playing Big 10 football)


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[Buffnik]

I see what you did there. But, no, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about big time college football where they lined up student athlete v student athlete. Not like the current SEC freakshows that have no intention of receiving an education. (This isn't me saying I want everyone playing Big 10 football)


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Frankly, college football is probably cleaner today than it's ever been since the day it started meaning enough for some of those old timey teams to hire ringers to play for them.

 

[TDbuff]

Here's a couple articles analyzing athletic department financing from the last couple days.

This one's pretty broad, basically just describing both the rising revenues and expenses of college sports departments over the last several years. It mentions the fuzzy accounting used to exaggerate the cost of a scholarship the AD has to pay the school:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ved-economic-downturn-earning-record-revenues

I'm sure there's some fuzzy accounting going on here and there. The fact that CU has to pay the University full out of state tuition for each scholarship seems a bit silly, although I've never really doubted that the school was actually making them do that, because CU.

This article expounds on that part by saying AD's are using that fuzzy accounting to hide profits that should/could be going to the student athletes. I've read his work before, he really doesn't like the NCAA.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/how-...he-media-fudge-the-cost-1570827027/+tcraggs22