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NCAA FB games too long?

Maybe more than any other conference, the length of games should matter to the PAC-12, where the casual fan with many other options for spending their Saturday is king. For me and I'm guessing most here the length of games is a nonissue, at least for CU games and marquee matchups. But the PAC-12 has got to find a way to start turning more casual fans into the diehards that the SEC, Big Ten and even Big XII have. It is critical for future success if the network and the conference. Shortening games might help in that area.
 
2.5 hours for 38 minutes of game time ... it's 11pm on the East Coast.

Think this game is a prime example that college games are too long.
 
It might be funny that I created the thread especially when I'm enjoying the game but not every game is as enjoyable.

I don't care for any other PAC-12 team other than CU...wish the P12 will finally release the 2017 schedule.
 
I think one of the problems is that people are looking for one fix and/or they criticize any single proposal because it won't fix the entire problem.

Do X!
X only adds 5-6 minutes to the game; X isn't the problem.

Do Y!
Y only adds 7 minutes to the game; Y isn't the problem.

Do Z!
Z only adds 10 minutes to the game, changing Z won't solve the problem.

It's going to take doing X, Y and Z, and probably A, B and C too. There's no silver bullet.

Some combination of the below changes would probably work:
Only stop the clock on 1st down during the last 2 (or 5) minutes of the half.
Only stop the clock when a player goes out of bounds during the last 2 (or 5) minutes of the half.
Only stop the clock on an incomplete pass during the last 2 (or 5) minutes of the half.
Replay gets 30-60-90 seconds to decide if they are going to change a call, if they can't decide in that amount of time, the call on the field stands, and if they do decide to change the call, then they get another 30 seconds to work out ball placement/time on clock.
Replay doesn't get to decide what plays to review - the coaches get a limited number of challenges.
Extra-point tries are timed.
The clock starts when the ball is kicked.

I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of.
 
skibum said:
I think one of the problems is that people are looking for one fix and/or they criticize any single proposal because it won't fix the entire problem.

Do X!
X only adds 5-6 minutes to the game; X isn't the problem.

Do Y!
Y only adds 7 minutes to the game; Y isn't the problem.

Do Z!
Z only adds 10 minutes to the game, changing Z won't solve the problem.

It's going to take doing X, Y and Z, and probably A, B and C too. There's no silver bullet.

Some combination of the below changes would probably work:
Only stop the clock on 1st down during the last 2 (or 5) minutes of the half.
Only stop the clock when a player goes out of bounds during the last 2 (or 5) minutes of the half.
Only stop the clock on an incomplete pass during the last 2 (or 5) minutes of the half.
Replay gets 30-60-90 seconds to decide if they are going to change a call, if they can't decide in that amount of time, the call on the field stands, and if they do decide to change the call, then they get another 30 seconds to work out ball placement/time on clock.
Replay doesn't get to decide what plays to review - the coaches get a limited number of challenges.
Extra-point tries are timed.
The clock starts when the ball is kicked.

I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's this difficult. I know people hate the NFL around here, but their games manage to almost always end in 3 hours (with rare exceptions), with more commercial breaks than the college games. There are only a few rule differences, affecting the clock, between college and NFL. I don't think it's very complicated.
 
TSchekler said:
I don't think it's this difficult. I know people hate the NFL around here, but their games manage to almost always end in 3 hours (with rare exceptions), with more commercial breaks than the college games. There are only a few rule differences, affecting the clock, between college and NFL. I don't think it's very complicated.
Click to expand...
Well, lets see:
Clock doesn't stop on 1st down.
Clock doesn't stop for a player going out of bounds (except in final 2 minutes of each half).
Play reviews only come from the booth in the last 2 minutes and on scoring plays/turnovers, unless a coach uses one of his limited number of challenges.

That's at least three changes, and... oh wait, they're all on the list of things that you said was "too complicated."
 
azbuff said:
Maybe more than any other conference, the length of games should matter to the PAC-12, where the casual fan with many other options for spending their Saturday is king. For me and I'm guessing most here the length of games is a nonissue, at least for CU games and marquee matchups. But the PAC-12 has got to find a way to start turning more casual fans into the diehards that the SEC, Big Ten and even Big XII have. It is critical for future success if the network and the conference. Shortening games might help in that area.
Click to expand...
Not having the games on a network that is broadcast in the 800s and unavailable at bars is where I'd start.
 
skibum said:
Well, lets see:
Clock doesn't stop on 1st down.
Clock doesn't stop for a player going out of bounds (except in final 2 minutes of each half).
Play reviews only come from the booth in the last 2 minutes and on scoring plays/turnovers, unless a coach uses one of his limited number of challenges.

That's at least three changes, and... oh wait, they're all on the list of things that you said was "too complicated."
Click to expand...
Huh? I think you misread my post. I said there weren't many differences between clock oriented rules, so moving closer to NFL rules wouldn't be complicated. Since the 2nd post in this thread I've lobbied for getting rid of 1st down clock stoppage until under 2 minutes of half and 4Q, as well as getting rid of automatic review of every questionable play. Give the coaches 2-3 challenges per game and let them decide what they want to review, otherwise, keep the game moving.

Some college coaches/ADs want to make the quarter length 12 minutes... Why over complicate a situation that isn't complicated??
 
skibum said:
Well, lets see:
Clock doesn't stop on 1st down.
Clock doesn't stop for a player going out of bounds (except in final 2 minutes of each half).
Play reviews only come from the booth in the last 2 minutes and on scoring plays/turnovers, unless a coach uses one of his limited number of challenges.

That's at least three changes, and... oh wait, they're all on the list of things that you said was "too complicated."
Click to expand...

TSchekler said:
Huh? I think you misread my post. I said there weren't many differences between clock oriented rules, so moving closer to NFL rules wouldn't be complicated. Since the 2nd post in this thread I've lobbied for getting rid of 1st down clock stoppage until under 2 minutes of half and 4Q, as well as getting rid of automatic review of every questionable play. Give the coaches 2-3 challenges per game and let them decide what they want to review, otherwise, keep the game moving.

Some college coaches/ADs want to make the quarter length 12 minutes... Why over complicate a situation that isn't complicated??
Click to expand...

I agree with skibum's suggestions and do them first before we go to 12 minute quarters. There is nothing wrong with having a shorter game than the NFL since college basketball games are eight minutes shorter than NBA games.
 
TSchekler said:
I don't think it's this difficult. I know people hate the NFL around here, but their games manage to almost always end in 3 hours (with rare exceptions), with more commercial breaks than the college games. There are only a few rule differences, affecting the clock, between college and NFL. I don't think it's very complicated.
Click to expand...

Part of what makes me like college and find the NFL boring is that the NFL is so formulaic. Every NFL game, no matter who is playing, has the same pace and rhythm to it. Very much like the NBA where it's a rare game that's not fitting into the allotted TV time or getting decided in the final 5 minutes.
 
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skibum said:
Well, lets see:
Clock doesn't stop on 1st down.
Clock doesn't stop for a player going out of bounds (except in final 2 minutes of each half).
Play reviews only come from the booth in the last 2 minutes and on scoring plays/turnovers, unless a coach uses one of his limited number of challenges.

That's at least three changes, and... oh wait, they're all on the list of things that you said was "too complicated."
Click to expand...

The ****?? The clock stops for players going out of bounds at every level any time in the ball game. In the last 5 years or so officials have backed away from stopping the clock if the forward progress spot is beyond the spot the player went out of bounds which may be what you are thinking. But if a player runs out of bounds at any time during a game at any level it stops the clock.
 
INTHABUFF said:
The ****?? The clock stops for players going out of bounds at every level any time in the ball game. In the last 5 years or so officials have backed away from stopping the clock if the forward progress spot is beyond the spot the player went out of bounds which may be what you are thinking. But if a player runs out of bounds at any time during a game at any level it stops the clock.
Click to expand...
Uncorrect
 
Buffnik said:
Part of what makes me like college and find the NFL boring is that the NFL is so formulaic. Every NFL game, no matter who is playing, has the same pace and rhythm to it. Very much like the NBA where it's a rare game that's not fitting into the allotted TV time or getting decided in the final 5 minutes.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, but that has nothing to do w the clock rules. There will still be uniqueness to the teams playing, the type of offenses being run, etc. Getting rid of automatic reviews doesn't stop that, nor does getting rid of clock stoppage after first downs. Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 or 6 times they had to stop play last night, for at least a few minutes to determine if something was a catch or whether the Ball carrier stepped out of bounds. I'm sure there were others. Regardless, should 60 minutes of clock time really be taking 4 hours of real time? It's just excessive... unless, of course, you are being granted immunity from doing chores or chasing your kids around.
 
INTHABUFF said:
The ****?? The clock stops for players going out of bounds at every level any time in the ball game. In the last 5 years or so officials have backed away from stopping the clock if the forward progress spot is beyond the spot the player went out of bounds which may be what you are thinking. But if a player runs out of bounds at any time during a game at any level it stops the clock.
Click to expand...

With the exception of the last two minutes of the first half and the last five minutes of the second half, the game clock will be restarted following a kickoff return, a player going out of bounds on a play from scrimmage, or after declined penalties when appropriate on the referee’s signal.
 
NWD Buff said:
Uncorrect
Click to expand...

Uncorrect

It stops and then is started on the ready for play except in the last 2 minutes of half. It stops and is started on the snap in the last 2 minutes. Either way it stops unless the progress spot is ahead of the out of bounds spot. I will give you that most any sideline official will be VERY liberal in deciding if something is progress or not and often the clock runs because of this, but by rule it should stop.
 
Buffnik said:
Part of what makes me like college and find the NFL boring is that the NFL is so formulaic. Every NFL game, no matter who is playing, has the same pace and rhythm to it. Very much like the NBA where it's a rare game that's not fitting into the allotted TV time or getting decided in the final 5 minutes.
Click to expand...
was just looking at 2016 team stats for plays per game, comparing NFL to Pac12. The difference in the NFL was 12 plays between the top and bottom. in the Pac 12, it was 18, but if you throw out the one outlier (Cal), it's the same 12. I was actually kinda surprised -- guess I never watched Cal this year.
 
hokiehead said:
was just looking at 2016 team stats for plays per game, comparing NFL to Pac12. The difference in the NFL was 12 plays between the top and bottom. in the Pac 12, it was 18, but if you throw out the one outlier (Cal), it's the same 12. I was actually kinda surprised -- guess I never watched Cal this year.
Click to expand...
I don't think the difference within leagues matters, but rather the difference between leagues (So, number of plays in NFL vs number plays in P12.)
 
skibum said:
I don't think the difference within leagues matters, but rather the difference between leagues (So, number of plays in NFL vs number plays in P12.)
Click to expand...
Except that I was responding to 'Niks point that NFL games all appear the same in this regard
 
Buffnik said:
You were? I hadn't said anything about the number of plays run by each team. :confused:
Click to expand...
fair enough, but you did post all NFL games have the same pace and rhythm. given that game-clock-time is fixed, that does imply homogeneity of play count
 
hokiehead said:
fair enough, but you did post all NFL games have the same pace and rhythm. given that game-clock-time is fixed, that does imply homogeneity of play count
Click to expand...

Could be related, I suppose. But that's not where my mind had gone. More like teams running such similar schemes that a guy can be picked up in free agency after being released and be able to play for his new team immediately... even at QB. Along with that, the hard salary cap making it so that there's never that big of a gap between the talent of teams. So you've got a bunch of roughly equal teams running the same stuff leading to games that don't get decided until we see which defenses can make stops & which QBs can make plays in the final minutes. Rules like the 2 minute warning timeout seem to be structured around supporting the endgame deciding the outcome within that backdrop. College has a hell of a lot more variability to it.

On the clock, I think there are 2 big things that can happen to improve college football in regard to game time:

1. Running clock on incompletions once the ball is marked ready for play. Full-stop only in the last 2 minutes. Same as they changed it for out of bounds plays.

2. Put time limit on review of a play and find a way to get a hell of a lot more efficient when there's a reversal and they have to change the new line of scrimmage & clock (that 2nd part is where they seem to take forever).

Beyond that, I think the answer would be elimination of TV timeouts. But I only think that becomes possible as a thing if we get to a pay-per-view model in the future, with only having on-screen sponsorships except for commercials at halftime & between quarters. That's a long way away and will never happen as long as viewers accept commercial breaks as part of the viewing experience.
 
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don't **** with the game. Why are people ****ing with the game? The problem with the length of games isn't the game, it's things outside of the game. too many reviews, too many non-game related time outs.
 
Buffnik said:
....
Beyond that, I think the answer would be elimination of TV timeouts. But I only think that becomes possible as a thing if we get to a pay-per-view model in the future, with only having on-screen sponsorships except for commercials at halftime & between quarters. That's a long way away and will never happen as long as viewers accept commercial breaks as part of the viewing experience.
Click to expand...
how does big-time (Euro) soccer handle that? Racing has the same problem -- in the US, almost all racing has gone to the side-by-side view, leaving the action on, but on a smaller screen and muted while the ads play.
 
hokiehead said:
how does big-time (Euro) soccer handle that? Racing has the same problem -- in the US, almost all racing has gone to the side-by-side view, leaving the action on, but on a smaller screen and muted while the ads play.
Click to expand...
Basically a PPV with extensive annual/season/team/league subscription options. A sponsor's logo (sometimes) on the screen during the action game; if I remember right, sometimes the announcers will read some ad copy type stuff as well - but no commercials, except maybe at halftime.
 
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