Menu
What's new
By:
Filters
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

Never imagined I would ever see it.

MtnBuff said:
You will get me angry just thinking about it. I have a ton of respect for Gary Barnett.

Barnett was a football coach and a very good one. He proved that as an assistant then at Northwestern and at CU. He wasn't a PR man and he wasn't a politician.

The CU administration completely threw Gary under the bus when faced with a media feeding frenzy based mostly on unfounded accusations and some outright lies. Because they didn't have the backbone to stand up for the truth the attacks continued instead of ending with the truth. The administration was afraid to take on the press and Mary Keeney.

Because of this a good man had his name soiled to the point that he never got a chance to coach again. Added to that the failure of the administration to effectively respond also meant that the roster of players who were on those teams also had their names soiled. The perception was that if a young man was a football player at CU he must be an out of control rapist. While there were a few individuals who crossed the line just like you will find in almost any program a huge number of high quality young men had their reputations hurt and the university administration stood by and allowed it to happen.
Click to expand...

MtnBuff, while I fully agree with you about Barnett, it is ironic that you continually express outrage over similar situations in the college sports world that you know nothing about. You folks tend to take what the media spoon-feeds the public and run with it, when we have a perfect example in CU's back yard of the damage a weak administration and media frenzy can cause.

It might be better karma for the CU program if you and others lay off of the problems of other programs and focus on CU. Otherwise, you are doing exactly the same thing that you are outraged about in your post above.
 
NewEra 2014 said:
MtnBuff, while I fully agree with you about Barnett, it is ironic that you continually express outrage over similar situations in the college sports world that you know nothing about. You folks tend to take what the media spoon-feeds the public and run with it, when we have a perfect example in CU's back yard of the damage a weak administration and media frenzy can cause.

It might be better karma for the CU program if you and others lay off of the problems of other programs and focus on CU. Otherwise, you are doing exactly the same thing that you are outraged about in your post above.
Click to expand...

You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Yes I express outrage at other programs. What happened at Penn State was established in a court of law and in their own internal investigation which they then chose to ignore. What has happened at Baylor has been established in a court of law with guilty findings and court evidence establishing that the crimes were covered up by the program and the administration.

Move on to Miami, clear evidence. Michigan State, do you need any more proof than the line up of brave young women testifying at Nasser's sentencing hearing and the resignations of the school officials who acknowledged ignoring the clear signs of what was going on.

And since this was your first post we don't know your agenda but I can suspect you are fusker lurker. We have a young woman from Colorado who's experience at the hands of Osborn's "boys" led her to start a national campaign. Again the evidence is clear.

In the case of the CU program were is the evidence? It isn't. It came out later that most of the "reports" were false or highly exaggerated. You had a politically motivated assistant DA using a scoop hungry Denver media to spread lies and innuendo and a school administration afraid to stand up to it.

The result was a bunch of innocent players and a good man being smeared.

Has Colorado had problems? Yes. Every program in the country has had problems, it comes with having college students living away from home for the first time in a college environment but to compare CU at it's worst to any of those other programs is simply false.

The damage caused by a weak response from administration is certainly clear. Will the Duke lacrosse players ever recover what they lost in that "scandal."

Clearly though there are programs in the nation that are flat out wrong and rotten to the core of their being. We do need to continue to call them out.
 
MtnBuff said:
You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Yes I express outrage at other programs. What happened at Penn State was established in a court of law and in their own internal investigation which they then chose to ignore. What has happened at Baylor has been established in a court of law with guilty findings and court evidence establishing that the crimes were covered up by the program and the administration.
Click to expand...

Just so you know my background, I did not go to CU. My son went there, and I have been a season ticket holder for CU football and basketball for 9 years.

Let's just take one of your examples. Who are you the most angry about at Penn State? Sandusky? The Second Mile? The Penn State administration? You should be angry about those three entities, if you even know who The Second Mile is, but you probably don't really know why you should be angry about The Second Mile or the Penn State administration.

But you seem to really save your anger at the Penn State football program, Joe Paterno, and even Paterno's family. That anger is badly misplaced. You make yourself look like a buffoon whenever you launch into a tirade about that situation.
 
NewEra 2014 said:
Just so you know my background, I did not go to CU. My son went there, and I have been a season ticket holder for CU football and basketball for 9 years.

Let's just take one of your examples. Who are you the most angry about at Penn State? Sandusky? The Second Mile? The Penn State administration? You should be angry about those three entities, if you even know who The Second Mile is, but you probably don't really know why you should be angry about The Second Mile or the Penn State administration.

But you seem to really save your anger at the Penn State football program, Joe Paterno, and even Paterno's family. That anger is badly misplaced. You make yourself look like a buffoon whenever you launch into a tirade about that situation.
Click to expand...
Jay, is that you?
 
hawkins also coached in the canadian football league after CU. he lasted like 4 games or so before the owner fired him for incompetence.

yeah, he's awesome if you like charlatans, frauds, and self-interested little pricks who refuse to be accountable to anyone.

and what does pedo state have to do with juicebox?

i am losing the thread AND IT IS ONLY THURSDAY.

bourbon! stat.
 
NewEra 2014 said:
Just so you know my background, I did not go to CU. My son went there, and I have been a season ticket holder for CU football and basketball for 9 years.

Let's just take one of your examples. Who are you the most angry about at Penn State? Sandusky? The Second Mile? The Penn State administration? You should be angry about those three entities, if you even know who The Second Mile is, but you probably don't really know why you should be angry about The Second Mile or the Penn State administration.

But you seem to really save your anger at the Penn State football program, Joe Paterno, and even Paterno's family. That anger is badly misplaced. You make yourself look like a buffoon whenever you launch into a tirade about that situation.
Click to expand...
New guy going in on Mtn. Hope you have plenty of time on your hands!
 
NewEra 2014 said:
Just so you know my background, I did not go to CU. My son went there, and I have been a season ticket holder for CU football and basketball for 9 years.

Let's just take one of your examples. Who are you the most angry about at Penn State? Sandusky? The Second Mile? The Penn State administration? You should be angry about those three entities, if you even know who The Second Mile is, but you probably don't really know why you should be angry about The Second Mile or the Penn State administration.

But you seem to really save your anger at the Penn State football program, Joe Paterno, and even Paterno's family. That anger is badly misplaced. You make yourself look like a buffoon whenever you launch into a tirade about that situation.
Click to expand...

I know absolutely who Second Mile is.

All of them deserve anger. Anger towards Sandusky is justified but doesn't help anything, he will die in prison.

Anger towards the Penn State administration is well placed and fully justified as is anger towards Paterno and those who defend and support him.

The facts, as established in a court of law and in Penn States own report, are that Sandusky was over a period of years committing his crimes on the Penn State campus and more specifically in athletic department facilities.

Facts are that Paterno had reason to know that Sandusky was committing these acts on campus. The administration placed such an importance on winning football games that they let Paterno tell them how violations of university conduct codes and the law would be handled on campus.

The decision was made by Paterno, and supported by Spanier, Schultz, and Curley, to ignore clear evidence of abuse of children in order to avoid potential negative publicity towards the football program. Again this is all established in courts of law, it is not speculation or hearsay.

To this day supporters of Penn State football prefer to support Paterno and the school over the victims of the person they gave free run of the athletic facilities. Hard to imagine anything more disgusting that this continued support and refusal to accept the reality of what happened.

The blind continued support of Penn State shows exactly how far from decency you are. Funny someone defending a coach who ignored a child rapist calling someone else a buffoon.
 
I remember when I first met Dan Hawkins, it was at the recruiting luncheon after he had been hired and they had a little reception before the luncheon. Hawkins was talking to a group of people and he kept referring to himself in the third person - "The Hawk is going to do this..." "The Hawk said this..." Right away I was wondering what the hell was going on. Bill McCartney gave the keynote at the luncheon and said that Hawkins was going to be successful because he was motivated and humble.

After the luncheon I was able to coral coach Mac and I asked him did he really believe Hawkins was humble. He gave me a smile and clapped me on the shoulder and changed the subject. I always believe the humble part of the keynote was for Hawkins benefit not the audience.

Coach Mac raised about $50000 at that luncheon for recruiting - he was auctioning off helmets, paintings, etc.
 
Time to start making some popcorn...
tenor.0.gif
 
MtnBuff said:
I know absolutely who Second Mile is.

All of them deserve anger. Anger towards Sandusky is justified but doesn't help anything, he will die in prison.

Anger towards the Penn State administration is well placed and fully justified as is anger towards Paterno and those who defend and support him.
Click to expand...

You are proving my point exactly, treating Paterno just how you don't want people to treat Barnett. You accept the spoon-fed narrative from the media and are so quick to condemn, when the exact same thing happened to Barnett.

Sandusky was investigated by the police for possible sexual child abuse in 1998. No charges were brought. I would assume Paterno and the Penn State admin knew about that incident, and Sandusky retired in 1999. He was given an office in their football building, against Paterno's wishes. Sandusky was also given emeritus status by the Penn State admin, which gave him access to the university buildings.

The famous McQueary incident occurred after Sandusky had retired and was employed by the Second Mile. McQueary couldn't place the year, but let's assume it was 2001. McQueary obviously saw something weird, but it clearly was not definitive. This is why the only charges that Sandusky was not convicted on were from that incident. McQueary tells his father and a doctor friend that night that he saw something weird, the father and doctor realize that it isn't actionable by police, but recommend that McQueary tell Paterno the next day. Rather than "cover it up", Paterno tells his boss (the AD) and the head of campus police of McQueary's story, and Paterno gets McQueary in front of them. This was university protocol at the time, and is now the official protocol of the NCAA.

Paterno didn't witness anything, but he got the witness in front of the exact people who were supposed to deal with the situation.
At that point, what is Paterno supposed to do? Go make a citizen's arrest, I guess? I'm sure Mtnbuff would have done so.

Look, you and others have been banging on bad things that have happened at other universities for years on this message board. I have never seen another message board of any program that focuses on such things like this Buffs board does. You do it every single week. I just think it is particularly hypocritical of you, given what was done to Gary Barnett. What was done to CU was a farce, and the program has still not recovered from it. Why continue to take shots at every other incident that occurs around the country? It makes you look small and petty.
 
NewEra 2014 said:
You are proving my point exactly, treating Paterno just how you don't want people to treat Barnett. You accept the spoon-fed narrative from the media and are so quick to condemn, when the exact same thing happened to Barnett.

Sandusky was investigated by the police for possible sexual child abuse in 1998. No charges were brought. I would assume Paterno and the Penn State admin knew about that incident, and Sandusky retired in 1999. He was given an office in their football building, against Paterno's wishes. Sandusky was also given emeritus status by the Penn State admin, which gave him access to the university buildings.

The famous McQueary incident occurred after Sandusky had retired and was employed by the Second Mile. McQueary couldn't place the year, but let's assume it was 2001. McQueary obviously saw something weird, but it clearly was not definitive. This is why the only charges that Sandusky was not convicted on were from that incident. McQueary tells his father and a doctor friend that night that he saw something weird, the father and doctor realize that it isn't actionable by police, but recommend that McQueary tell Paterno the next day. Rather than "cover it up", Paterno tells his boss (the AD) and the head of campus police of McQueary's story, and Paterno gets McQueary in front of them. This was university protocol at the time, and is now the official protocol of the NCAA.

Paterno didn't witness anything, but he got the witness in front of the exact people who were supposed to deal with the situation.
At that point, what is Paterno supposed to do? Go make a citizen's arrest, I guess? I'm sure Mtnbuff would have done so.

Look, you and others have been banging on bad things that have happened at other universities for years on this message board. I have never seen another message board of any program that focuses on such things like this Buffs board does. You do it every single week. I just think it is particularly hypocritical of you, given what was done to Gary Barnett. What was done to CU was a farce, and the program has still not recovered from it. Why continue to take shots at every other incident that occurs around the country? It makes you look small and petty.
Click to expand...

Now you are going full idiot.

"Paterno didn't witness anything." The court evidence says he had knowledge that something was going on. The issue was discussed more than once and years prior to when it finally found the light of day. But you know that JoPa didn't know it was going on.

The court evidence (which resulted in the convictions of not just Sandusky but also of Spanier, Curley, and Schultz) and the Freeh report all show that Penn State acted in a criminal manner which resulted in the continued abuse of children. I will leave this point up to the lawyers on this board who work in criminal law but I believe that had JoPa been healthy and lived long enough he also would have been convicted.

If you can't see the difference between criminal convictions and unsubstantiated charges, most of which were later proven to be false against Barnett then you need a serious re-evaluation of what you think is fact and fiction.

There is absolutely, zero, comparison between what happened at CU under Barnett and what happened at Penn State under Paterno. If you think there is you are not only deluded but also willfully ignorant.

When you can show me the appeals court decisions stating that the above information isn't correct then we might have room to continue the discussion but at this point you are arguing the indefensible. What is truly shocking is the blind support of not only you but of thousands of Penn State fans of actions that no clear thinking person could ever defend.
 
I don’t want to be a cow on this train screaming down the tracks because this is a damn good discussion, but isn’t it ironic that Paterno, Barnett, Briles, Urban Meyer, Hawkins, Durkin, Macintyre, etc. all seem to be “Unaware” of stuff going on in their programs because Type “A” personality, high ego guys do not believe things will trip them up, and they do not accept blame well. Many of these guys are really not accountable to anyone because they are paid more than their bosses are and have big ass egos and agents that clean the dirty things up behind the scenes. Crazy to think what College Football was truly like 30-40 years ago with things like SMU and other unsavory things at big time programs. Dr Tom is sure not an innocent man!

Carry on
 
Can't forget the Hawkins coached the US to the 2015 IFAF Championships

What other college coaches can claim a World Championship!
 
MtnBuff said:
"Paterno didn't witness anything." The court evidence says he had knowledge that something was going on. The issue was discussed more than once and years prior to when it finally found the light of day.

The court evidence (which resulted in the convictions of not just Sandusky but also of Spanier, Curley, and Schultz) and the Freeh report all show that Penn State acted in a criminal manner which resulted in the continued abuse of children. I will leave this point up to the lawyers on this board who work in criminal law but I believe that had JoPa been healthy and lived long enough he also would have been convicted.
Click to expand...

You keep citing the Freeh Report in all of your posts on this thread, which perfectly illustrates your ignorance. You haven't read the Freeh Report, have you? It doesn't have a lot of pictures, so probably not. The preamble of that report has some very damning conclusions. But the body of the report clearly shows that there was absolutely no factual basis for those conclusions, and the report has been thoroughly debunked. Of course, that should be expected from someone like Freeh, the architect of Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the Atlanta Olympic bombing investigations. Strike one, MtnBuff.

Curley and Schultz pled guilty to child endangerment. Spanier was found guilty of child endangerment. No one at Penn State was found guilty of any of the conspiracy charges brought against them. You know, the charges that would have involved Joe Paterno. Strike two, MtnBuff.

Frank Fina, the prosecutor of the case, had this to say about Paterno's involvement:
Another key figure in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse case weighed in Tuesday with his take on whether former Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno was an active participant in efforts to cover up Sandusky's sex crimes. In an interview recorded for CBS 60 Minutes Sports, former Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina said flatly: "I did not find that evidence." Strike three, MtnBuff.

You are wrong, and you have been wrong about this for years. You aren't very smart, but at least you are absolutely sure of yourself. Have a nice day.
 
4BienemyTDs said:
I don’t want to be a cow on this train screaming down the tracks because this is a damn good discussion, but isn’t it ironic that Paterno, Barnett, Briles, Urban Meyer, Hawkins, Durkin, Macintyre, etc. all seem to be “Unaware” of stuff going on in their programs because Type “A” personality, high ego guys do not believe things will trip them up, and they do not accept blame well. Many of these guys are really not accountable to anyone because they are paid more than their bosses are and have big ass egos and agents that clean the dirty things up behind the scenes. Crazy to think what College Football was truly like 30-40 years ago with things like SMU and other unsavory things at big time programs. Dr Tom is sure not an innocent man!

Carry on
Click to expand...

You make a very good point.

A lot of these coaches are so obsessed with winning that they are unable to see anything but what it takes to win. It isn't that they don't see the what is happening but they filter everything through the lens of what is good for their own program and nothing more.

Even peoples lives become secondary to that ultimate goal.

I don't know that Hawkins is quite that bad. His ego is huge but he didn't excuse death, rape, abuse, etc. in the name of winning. If being a self-centered jerk was a crime he would have been guilty but other than playing favorites and being clueless as far as I knew he was a decent man.
 
NewEra 2014 said:
You keep citing the Freeh Report in all of your posts on this thread, which perfectly illustrates your ignorance. You haven't read the Freeh Report, have you? It doesn't have a lot of pictures, so probably not. The preamble of that report has some very damning conclusions. But the body of the report clearly shows that there was absolutely no factual basis for those conclusions, and the report has been thoroughly debunked. Of course, that should be expected from someone like Freeh, the architect of Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the Atlanta Olympic bombing investigations. Strike one, MtnBuff.

Curley and Schultz pled guilty to child endangerment. Spanier was found guilty of child endangerment. No one at Penn State was found guilty of any of the conspiracy charges brought against them. You know, the charges that would have involved Joe Paterno. Strike two, MtnBuff.

Frank Fina, the prosecutor of the case, had this to say about Paterno's involvement:
Another key figure in the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse case weighed in Tuesday with his take on whether former Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno was an active participant in efforts to cover up Sandusky's sex crimes. In an interview recorded for CBS 60 Minutes Sports, former Chief Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina said flatly: "I did not find that evidence." Strike three, MtnBuff.

You are wrong, and you have been wrong about this for years. You aren't very smart, but at least you are absolutely sure of yourself. Have a nice day.
Click to expand...


Debunked by who, the Penn State Booster Club.

I'm not going to continue in this exercise considering that you don't get the concept of evidence in a court of law.

Normally I try to treat others on the board with respect but anyone, and I mean anyone, who can try to defend the school that let Jerry Sandusky do what he did to children and refused to take the steps to stop it because they didn't want bad publicity for their football team doesn't deserve respect.

JoPa had a great career, to bad he ended up as a an enabler. Penn State should have had their program shut down so all their delusional fans could develop some awareness and require school to fix their priorities.

The only ones who don't believe the Freeh report are those who wouldn't believe it if they were there to see it. If he wasn't credible why did the school hire him in the first place.

No room for further discussion. I don't take Penn State apologist as credible sources over court evidence.
 
4BienemyTDs said:
I don’t want to be a cow on this train screaming down the tracks because this is a damn good discussion, but isn’t it ironic that Paterno, Barnett, Briles, Urban Meyer, Hawkins, Durkin, Macintyre, etc. all seem to be “Unaware” of stuff going on in their programs because Type “A” personality, high ego guys do not believe things will trip them up, and they do not accept blame well. Many of these guys are really not accountable to anyone because they are paid more than their bosses are and have big ass egos and agents that clean the dirty things up behind the scenes. Crazy to think what College Football was truly like 30-40 years ago with things like SMU and other unsavory things at big time programs. Dr Tom is sure not an innocent man!

Carry on
Click to expand...
I was told McIntyre was a type B personality
 
BlackNGold said:
I remember when I first met Dan Hawkins, it was at the recruiting luncheon after he had been hired and they had a little reception before the luncheon. Hawkins was talking to a group of people and he kept referring to himself in the third person - "The Hawk is going to do this..." "The Hawk said this..." Right away I was wondering what the hell was going on. Bill McCartney gave the keynote at the luncheon and said that Hawkins was going to be successful because he was motivated and humble.

After the luncheon I was able to coral coach Mac and I asked him did he really believe Hawkins was humble. He gave me a smile and clapped me on the shoulder and changed the subject. I always believe the humble part of the keynote was for Hawkins benefit not the audience.

Coach Mac raised about $50000 at that luncheon for recruiting - he was auctioning off helmets, paintings, etc.
Click to expand...

That story reflects some serious weirdness. I thought he was a relatively normal and low key guy until reading this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top