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New Women's Basketball Coach JR Payne

jsmilkst said:
I'll hit on one point in that verbose post: discipline does preclude aggression. The PayneTrain's comments on discipline were that everyone is held to the standard. But she also mentioned the whole blue collar thing several times. She expects to out-hustle, get on the floor for loose balls, etc. Get scrappy. There is nothing I got about her style of play that doesn't work very well for Kennedy and Alexis, they brought a ton of energy last year. I also don't think the comment was immature, the comment was that she had barely met her new coach.
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Anyone that doesn't recognize that KL's style of playing isn't going to mesh with JR's vision of a disciplined team didn't watch the Buffs play this last season. This team was defined by poor offensive efficiency, poor shot selection, and the inability of the offensive players to distribute the ball effectively to one another. The things that actually make KL great, much like Shonni Schimmel, are the very things that do not mesh with JR Payne's style of playing basketball. KL, like Shonni can do incredible things, but you have to take the good with the bad.

Read this piece on Shonni, and you can effectively project Schimmel onto KL's style of play:

http://www.swishappeal.com/wnba/2014/9/18/6111025/wnba-2014-shoni-schimmel-atlanta-dream

KL is a great player, and Shonni was an incredible player. However, they are not compatible with all styles of coaching. Shonni Schimmel couldn't have played for JR Payne either, she just is not a disciplined player. She is an aggressive player, just like KL. Jeff Walz showed incredible trust to take the good with the bad with Shonni, many many coaches in Div-I power 6 conference women's basketball wouldn't have allowed a player that latitude. It took a special relationship and an incredible amount of trust for Louisville to make the NFL Finals that season. For the record, the year Shonni/Louisville beat Griner/Baylor to play UCONN in the 2013 NCAA Championship Final game. For the record, CU actually beat that Louisville team that season, and the best player on the floor wasn't Shonni, it was Chucky.

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=323490038

I don't think Shonni could play for JR Payne and be effective, not every coach is going to be compatible with a loose cannon player like that. In the WNBA Shonni is like the secret weapon and her own kryptonite all in one. She was the WNBA All-Star MVP and played more minutes in the All-Star game than she had in the three previous WNBA games prior, for a reason. KL has spectacular and incredible moments, her aggressive style is a function of the very elite club basketball scene that produced her. However, there is a difference between tournament girls basketball and NCAA women's team basketball. JR Payne is going to focus on team basketball, and disciplined play. Her teams are not defined by hyper aggressive PGs having a green light to take bad shots, nor have JR's teams been run by PGs that turn the ball over as often as they create an assist. I think KL is a talent to behold. Like Shonni something is always going to happen every time she plays, it could be spectacular and it could shoot or turnover her team right out the game, however it will be FUN to watch. JR Payne is going to be a great coach for Colorado. KL is going to be a great player for CU or another school, especially if she's at a mid-major or outside the SEC, ACC, Big-12, Pac-12, or Big-10.

I'm just not sure that KL and Payne are going to be great together. Then again the sign of a great coach is adapting to the talent they have. For all the things KL's game is, it represents about 25% of the talent on the entire team, right now. Payne will either take the good with the bad, or she'll focus on creating the culture of disciplined basketball she wants to instill. Five years from now, the legacy of CU Women's basketball will absolutely be JR Payne basketball, not KL's aggressive style of play. In the interim can they work together, well? We'll see.

The tone/tenor of KL's published comments seem to indicate that she was thinking of transferring, and is now at least giving JR a chance. Stay tuned. Buffballer could clarify or add the human element to this conversation, but has chosen not to. That's his prerogative. Quite frankly, Linda wasn't ready to ever coach at this level. Getting fired really wasn't her fault. This whole mess has been completely unfair to KL, and everyone needs to recognize that.

The good news is that CU women's basketball is on a 2-year plan to be competitive again. Make no mistake, no single player Sophomore or otherwise is more important than the program. Shonni Schimmel has a lot in common with KL, but that star burned just a wee bit brighter, and it had its flameouts as well.
 
I saw a freshman PG asked to do way too much, making freshman mistakes at times while also playing with aggression and fire you can't coach. From the first game I watched, KL was willing to throw her body around and mix it up. That made me a fan. As she matures from her freshman year and the talent around her improves, she will become more efficient and learn to control the game. To compare it to the men's program, a player we remember as being very cerebral and orchestrating of the action as an upperclassman (Cory Higgins) was pretty darn inefficient with his offense as a freshman when he was the most talented guy on a bad team. Cory became what he did and the program became one of the best in the west by his senior year. I can easily envision KL having a similar career at CU.
 
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@RalphieWasAGurl & @Buffballer - I will first say we are glad to have this level of activity an interest in WBB on this board and welcome a couple of new posters. Now with that said:

Please leave your drama off the site and tone down the personal insults and obsessions.

RWAG - we get it you don't like KL and several other things, maybe your kid lost PT to KL. Attempting to out other posters real identity is forbidden on here, so is insulting student athletes.

BBaller - Tossing around direct personal insults and re-posting moderated comments etc are a good way to get a time out.

You two need to put each other on ignore.
RWAG - to ignore baller click here: https://www.allbuffs.com/members/buffballer.10372/ignore & follow the prompts
Baller to ignore RWAG click here https://www.allbuffs.com/members/ralphiewasagurl.20213/ignore & follow the prompts
 
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RG is making his own hires (somewhat unpopular and off the radar) which is a huge difference from Bohn. Bohn let others make hires for him and spent way too much time worrying about what others thought.

Good news if and when we hire a football HC
 
I'm not sure anyone noticed, but JR Payne has a degree in French. I never understood why Linda went down without using every opportunity at her disposal to improve the team with scholarships. CU still has at least two remaining, right now. Her husband was communicated to be traveling overseas right now. I think its WAY too late to get any good recruit for next fall, but there is always a ton of talent overseas in Europe that never gets effectively recruited. If Payne speaks French, no reason not to go look overseas in France. To that point, everyone on this board that didn't join just recently should remember Isabelle Fijalkowski, she was our 6-5 true five back during the heyday with Ceal her "senior" season. Played with Sheetz, Raegan, Tinker. So CU already has some recruiting currency in France. Fijalkowski led France to the 2001 Eurobasket European championship. Towns should drop her name on recruiting visits…if he happens to visit France.

CU can get some very very talented players still for next season overseas. Two scholarships remaining. Going and getting the type of players Ryun Williams has built CSU up with, could help bridge the gap until JR can recruit her own types of disciplined, mentally tough, emotionally even keeled players. Expect two players to join incoming recruits.

Bria Rice PG, will be the highest ESPN/HoopGurlz rated PG on the roster 90/3-star.
Quinessa Caylao-Do, SG is another 3-star recruit, 89 rating.

The best news of the JR Payne hire is her incredible reputation as a recruiter. CU is a Pac-12 program with a rich history, and the days of CU running out 3-star players in roles they aren't ready for are probably over within two years.

Let's get a guessing game going:

How many seasons until JR Payne beats Stanford again, this time with CU?
How many seasons until CU returns to their natural place in the top-25?
 
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RalphieWasAGurl said:
How many seasons until JR Payne beats Stanford again, this time with CU?
How many seasons until CU returns to their natural place in the top-25?
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JR Payne beat Stanford (Elite Eight, NCAA tourney team 2016) this year, and I think she'll do it no later than the 2018-2019 season. Something Linda never once managed to do while at CU.

JR Payne will have CU in the top-25 no later than the 2018-19 season. Unlike Linda, she'll have to get their with her own players. The current roster is almost entirely devoid of Pac-12 talent. Which is not to say they aren't good women's basketball players, just that this is the #1 conference for Women's basketball in the country right now.
 
I liked that I came to this thread and the last post was by "ignored poster" :LOL:

Quote from Leonard in email from CU WBB: “really cool and down to earth. It seems like she’s really relationship based, and that’s a nice change. I’m just excited for us all to get in the gym with her.”

Bold added by me and I think that speaks volumes about Kennedy's former coach.
 
sliderNcider said:
RG is making his own hires (somewhat unpopular and off the radar) which is a huge difference from Bohn. Bohn let others make hires for him and spent way too much time worrying about what others thought.

Good news if and when we hire a football HC
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I really can't see how you got there logically.

This is exactly a Bohn hire resume, its basically MacIntyre's resume, right down to the playing Standford tough, lack of meaningful post season wins, and no P6 experience. This was generated by a search firm just like bohn's hires, I know you hate Bohn and love RG - but this hire is classic CU and nothing like the splash moves we made in football at the assistant level recently.

So either:
- RG cheaped out and went the Bohn route here to save his bullets for other sports
OR
- MikeMac is a beast at hiring in his second chances

Take your pick, but nothing about this hire says "good news" when we hire for football it says we'll go unproven lower division coach.
 
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There are many things to be worried about surrounding this program and optimism this decade has only been lower a month ago when we hadn't yet made a coaching change. Though I have many reservations about where things are going from here, Coach Payne, those who will be working for her, and the players need our full support while they turn the page and work toward a product they can be proud of. Please stop the cheap shots about the relationship of the coaches or implying that certain players on the roster should be pushed out. Work for the new season has already begun. Let us be Colorado Buffalo fans who build up rather than continue the divisions that were characteristic of a failing program.
 
absinthe said:
I really can't see how you got there logically.

This is exactly a Bohn hire resume, its basically MacIntyre's resume, right down to the playing Standford tough, lack of meaningful post season wins, and no P6 experience. This was generated by a search firm just like bohn's hires, I know you hate Bohn and love RG - but this hire is classic CU and nothing like the splash moves we made in football at the assistant level recently.

So either:
- RG cheaped out and went the Bohn route here to save his bullets for other sports
OR
- MikeMac is a beast at hiring in his second chances

Take your pick, but nothing about this hire says "good news" when we hire for football it says we'll go unproven lower division coach.
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Don't you think recruiting was an emphasis with this hire though? That seemed to be lacking with some of bohn's hires and that is whete I see the difference.
 
onealcd said:
Don't you think recruiting was an emphasis with this hire though? That seemed to be lacking with some of bohn's hires and that is whete I see the difference.
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I could agree with that - still sort of the same thing though, more recruiting focused, under the radar coach with a short resume from a lower division school, that had one good season.
 
absinthe said:
I really can't see how you got there logically.

This is exactly a Bohn hire resume, its basically MacIntyre's resume, right down to the playing Standford tough, lack of meaningful post season wins, and no P6 experience. This was generated by a search firm just like bohn's hires, I know you hate Bohn and love RG - but this hire is classic CU and nothing like the splash moves we made in football at the assistant level recently.

So either:
- RG cheaped out and went the Bohn route here to save his bullets for other sports
OR
- MikeMac is a beast at hiring in his second chances

Take your pick, but nothing about this hire says "good news" when we hire for football it says we'll go unproven lower division coach.
Click to expand...
Basketball hires are a little different than football...

I still trust RG to make the right football hire when 5he time comes
 
absinthe said:
I really can't see how you got there logically.

This is exactly a Bohn hire resume, its basically MacIntyre's resume, right down to the playing Standford tough, lack of meaningful post season wins, and no P6 experience. This was generated by a search firm just like bohn's hires, I know you hate Bohn and love RG - but this hire is classic CU and nothing like the splash moves we made in football at the assistant level recently.

So either:
- RG cheaped out and went the Bohn route here to save his bullets for other sports
OR
- MikeMac is a beast at hiring in his second chances

Take your pick, but nothing about this hire says "good news" when we hire for football it says we'll go unproven lower division coach.
Click to expand...
Hey! MM was a coordinator at the P5 level before he was here, and had stints at 2 other P5 schools.

I'm deeply underwhelmed by this hire, but I have to admit that I like everything I've seen from Payne since she was announced as the hire.

As part of the "RG walks on water" crowd, I'll trust a bit and give her every chance to prove that she's much better than her resume to date. I sure hope she is.
 
Comparing criteria for hiring a WBB Coach and hiring a FB Coach is a false equivalency.

Football is responsible for the majority of athletic department revenues and donations. Women's basketball loses money.

Once the FB house is in order and the AD is functioning with a much larger budget from the increased revenues off revenues driven by FB tickets, merchandising, concessions and donations... then we can look at paying premiums for coaches in other sports in order to steal top coaches from other Power Conference programs. Until then, the model has to be hiring a dynamic, up-and-coming coach who has been successful at lower D1 and who shines in the interview & vetting process.

And until any non-revenue sport becomes elite (like XC and Ski at CU), I have trouble seeing justification paying the HC more than CU pays its FB assistants.
 
Let's not forget Bohn hired a D2 coach in Lappe. Payne is a D1 coach so let's say this hiring appears to be an upgrade.
 
Buffnik said:
I have trouble seeing justification paying the HC more than CU pays its FB assistants.
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I havent seen Payne's compensation number but Lappe was at some thing like 175k that is actually less than every single one of our FB assistants. Clark is the only one close.
 
absinthe said:
I havent seen Payne's compensation number but Lappe was at some thing like 175k that is actually less than every single one of our FB assistants. Clark is the only one close.
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I thought Lappe was around 300K a year? And so is JR according to Howell.
 
onealcd said:
I thought Lappe was around 300K a year? And so is JR according to Howell.
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You could be right all i could find was older stuff from when we re-did Boyle's deal that had here at 170+3% merit raise, at 300 she's be on par with most of our football position coaches, and behind the Co-Ord's which seems about right
 
What was that...8 days on the job? That doesn't feel like a guy I would trust.

I'd like to find out the story on the hiring process. Did Coach Payne specifically single this guy out for the asst coaching position? Or did he interview for the job after he was hired at Southeastern?
 
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