RalphieSpeaks
Club Member
I never said that. Other posters have. I said you need good defense to win a championship but you cannot win with defense in the same way as you did before. That is about the extent of it.
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I never said that. Other posters have. I said you need good defense to win a championship but you cannot win with defense in the same way as you did before. That is about the extent of it.
Okie Buff
Well-Known Member
Lots of individual talent? Sure. But they don’t play as unit worth crap. Garbage. That’s where the coaching matters.
No. This style of offense makes it hard for a defense to be rested, confident and reliable. It's about getting enough turnovers for extra possessions so that the offense can win the game by scoring like it is supposed to. Ohio State won the games you're talking about. Oklahoma lost to Texas because the offense failed with the missed field goal and other miscues. Those teams are built to win a certain way is all.
I think it's weird that there is this narrative ripping on these defenses when I don't see similar narratives ripping on Washington for having an offense that has kept it out of the playoffs the past 2 seasons. This year, Washington lost 3 games by 5, 3 and 2 points with total scoring of 43 points in those games combined. In 2017 they lost 2 games in the regular season, scoring 7 and 22 points in those.
Or we praise Michigan, another program that has won nothing while playing great defense. Scored 17 against Notre Dame and 39 against Ohio State (some of which wasn't even really from the offense). 2 losses and sitting at home this week despite what was the nation's #1 defense. Last year they also had a great defense. Lost 4 games because they scored 10, 13, 10 and 20 in those games.
Offense wins championships more than defense does. And the defense you're gonna be playing when you have a championship offense is going to suffer from the position it is put in with that style of play. Oklahoma and Ohio State look like they will be champions this year. By definition, they have championship defenses because they do what's necessary to win the games.
And to bring this back on topic: this is why I want an offensive innovator to be the next coach at CU.
While you hope you can build to what Alabama and Clemson has and can be able to dominate on both sides, there are only 2 programs in the nation that are able to do that. For everyone else, the ones that have gone offense are doing better than the ones who have gone defense.
While you hope you can build to what Alabama and Clemson has and can be able to dominate on both sides, there are only 2 programs in the nation that are able to do that. For everyone else, the ones that have gone offense are doing better than the ones who have gone defense.
People are arguing you need both, Nik.
You seem to be arguing only offense matters and defense is just along for the ride. Any game that the offense wins 31-28? Exactly according to plan. Any game offense wins 52-49? Also, exactly according to plan.
(So according to plan, OU fired their DC midseason, but we digress)
Again, you are picking the two extreme outliers on offense and treating that as pure fact. If you look up and down the top 25, there are a LOT of balanced teams.
You can't have both is the thing. Very few ever do. In the era when CU played in 2 straight national championship games, the scores were 6-21 and 10-9. Fast forward 30 years and if we want to get there we should be building to win 52-45 - which is the same sort of margin but just a different brand of football.
This is why I wanted Holgorsen. This is why I want Day. This is why I'd rather fall back to Fisch instead of hiring some established DC type like a Leavitt or Mason or Schiano. It's why I'm even skeptical on Lake - I don't believe in the Washington system as something that represents the present and future.
chitownbuff
Club Member
Sweet stats. Any coaching news?
The more I hear that there’s a chance that Leavitt could be the next HC here, the more frustrated I get. Why say you want to win championships RG if you’re bringing in a guy who couldn’t win a CONFERENCE championship in a complete **** conference and even worse he couldn’t get top two in that conference. Guy has a below average statistical defense at Oregon that is loaded with talent and he never got it done at USF. That would really kill my excitement for next year. I would be absolutely livid. Sorry for the rant, but I do hope your sources get it wrong...
The Top 25 would seem to contradict your "proof" (limited to two teams) that you cannot have both. You are arguing against compelling evidence with emotion.
If there was any news do you think @Duff Man and I would be mentally masturbating in the type of pointless guy argument that chases my wife out of the room?
Top 25 is a mixed bag of different styles. For sure. But it still looks like the teams winning championships and positioned to maybe win it all have high powered offenses. Heck, Wazzu would have won the Pac-12 if not for a conference executive over-reaching his job responsibilities to play official from his couch (and who knows what happens in the Apple Cup if it's not played in a slush storm). They are the only 10 win team in the league, though.
I would hate that so much.
Can we hire Tumpkin instead? I think he resolved his legal issue and there's good reason to believe he was the brains behind the 2016 defense.
Group therapy AllBuffs style!If there was any news do you think @Duff Man and I would be mentally masturbating in the type of pointless guy argument that chases my wife out of the room?
****. We’re getting Kiffin.
I’m not saying Leavitt wasn’t the brains. I believe he’s a very solid DC. But I firmly believe that defense had much more to do with seniors being tired of losing and most being NFL talent. I just have a hard time believing he’s the best guy we can get... really good DC, but .500 coach in the god damn Big East. To me that doesn’t seem like a big step up
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I want outr O to figure out how to run. We’ll get it just in time for Ds to figure it out.
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Don't take me so seriously. Please. For your own mental health.
No way Tumpkin is ever allowed to step foot on campus again. It's just a point I'm making about how, when we know that Tumpkin was responsible for game adjustments and planning that year and had just been a successful DC somewhere else that Leavitt -- a disorganized mess who was never more than co-DC under Stoops at KSU, had most recently been a LB coach in the NFL before CU and had an Oregon defense that rated worse than Eliot's defense this year -- is somehow a viable candidate to come back and be the head coach.
fwiw, I think 2016 was a unicorn year where the toxic mix of personalities with Leavitt, Tumpkin and MacIntyre somehow worked and the success was in large part due to the seniors who were on that team and could deal with the noise, filter it and get the job done.
Didn't the Broncos do that very thing a few years ago? You need both, I think everyone agrees with that, for the most part. I'm more, admittedly, old school with how I see the game. I'm cool with feeling that way about it, though. If you can still run the ball and play defense at a high level, you can win a lot of games, no matter the level. Alabama has gone to another level finding an outstanding QB, no doubt. They still do all those other things though.
Not to keep perseverating on O vs D, but it’s like everyone on here is treating it like a zero sum gain.
Lol I knew you were kidding about the Tumpkin part, I edited my post to say Leavitt for clarity. I was not aware that Tumpkim was responsible for adjustments though, but were on the same page about the seniors which is what I thought from previous discussion on this!Don't take me so seriously. Please. For your own mental health.
No way Tumpkin is ever allowed to step foot on campus again. It's just a point I'm making about how, when we know that Tumpkin was responsible for game adjustments and planning that year and had just been a successful DC somewhere else that Leavitt -- a disorganized mess who was never more than co-DC under Stoops at KSU, had most recently been a LB coach in the NFL before CU and had an Oregon defense that rated worse than Eliot's defense this year -- is somehow a viable candidate to come back and be the head coach.
fwiw, I think 2016 was a unicorn year where the toxic mix of personalities with Leavitt, Tumpkin and MacIntyre somehow worked and the success was in large part due to the seniors who were on that team and could deal with the noise, filter it and get the job done.
BerkeleyBuff
Well-Known Member
Zero sum gain, eh?
Yes.If there was any news do you think @Duff Man and I would be mentally masturbating in the type of pointless guy argument that chases my wife out of the room?
Do you think you can play offense like Oklahoma does and hold opponents consistently under 30 points? I mean, I guess they did it 6 times this season. But when they meet someone with comparable talent or an offense that's clicking they are going to give up 40+ playing their style (while expecting to score 60). I don't think of that as bad defense. Just as, back in the day as a basketball fan, the Showtime era Lakers played great defense even though ppg doesn't tell that story.
APPLE VOICE TO TEXT!!
The slush storm did happen though and that is also part of the game.
^^^. I thought out D played well against Washington, Cal, USC and that our O lost it for us. But then you could also say our D lost the entire season for us vs Oregon State.