*****OFFICIAL GAME THREAD***** CU vs. Texas A&M

[Quattro]

So am I the only one who thought the refs were terrible?

 

[prime teets]

So am I the only one who thought the refs were terrible?

they called some pretty ticky tac fouls but weren't terrible in either direction.

 

[Quattro]

And most of those were against CU, correct? Seems like whenever aTm would drive, CU would get a foul called but when CU would drive and get mauled, no call.

 

[BuffNut99]

gutted

 

[CarolinaBuff]

...I'm work traveling so I can't watch **** for sports...but if this is true (which it is...), that's absolutely retarded. I have never understood why coaches defend NOT fouling when up by three and a few seconds left. If ever the clock reaches 5 seconds, I foul. With ten seconds left, your players need to be prepared to foul. The arguments for NOT fouling don't make any sense to me. I read an article where many top coaches (who know a lot more about bball than most of us) defended just playing it straight up (there were many other coaches preaching to foul in the same article). Their reasoning is that players shoot 40% or so from 3 point line and then mid 70s at the strike. ?!?!?! SO?!?!? One shot ties the game and the other you're still winning. What are the chances of missing the second shot and getting a rebound and then shooting a game winner? Much less than a three.

...this is a game that I thought we would just win...I think we're better than they are. Turgeon though is a great coach. I'm speaking out of hand here, because I didn't see the game - but if the Buffs keep playing like this ****, NIT is not even in the future.

I didn't read the article either but you can't convince me that fouling isn't the better option in that situation. Just ask Memphis.

 

[BlackNGold]

And most of those were against CU, correct? Seems like whenever aTm would drive, CU would get a foul called but when CU would drive and get mauled, no call.

Kind of like the 7 point possession the Buffs had when the refs called a technical on A&M or when Higgins pushed the defender out of the way to get a layup. The refs did a good job and the Buffs got the better of it, IMO. The refs did not change the outcome, Buffs had a nice lead and A&M buckled down defended and rebounded.

 

[torero]

they called some pretty ticky tac fouls but weren't terrible in either direction.

I had a different take. I thought they were terrible in both directions. It didn't really give either team an advantage, because they were bad on both ends. It was the biggest ref with the slicked back dark hair that made all those calls, too. He was obviously one of those officials that thinks we're there to watch him officiate, not watch basketball. I hate those guys.

On the fouling think, like Nik said, you can go either way on this. Its a debate that will probably go on forever. I lean towards that not fouling strategy, if you can't rely on your defense to get a stop, what business do you have winning a game anyway. Just my take.

Looking at the game as a whole (well, most of a whole, I missed the first 5 minutes or so, had a prior commitment before getting to the keg), we played terribly selfishly. Higgins and Burks forgot they had teammates in the last 6 minutes plus overtime or so. Walkup absolutely abused Relaphorde, he was awful last night. Levi played pretty good defense on their #22 (can't remember his name, but he was their best player), but you could tell he got worn out, especially in OT, he played a lot more minutes tonight than usual since he started. Dufault was his usual self, getting abused on the defensive end, making up for it slightly with some good offensive plays, but still a net loss. I too wondered what happened to Roberson? Burks and Higgins played pretty damn well for about 34 minutes, but the last 6 plus OT were lousy, and that cost us the game.

 

[SBG]

And most of those were against CU, correct? Seems like whenever aTm would drive, CU would get a foul called but when CU would drive and get mauled, no call.

I didn't see the game, but you see this on EVERY bball board when a team loses. While I like the game, it's just too subjective. What were the overall stats on fouls. Otherwise, well, perception is king and that's usually wrong.

 

[tante]

I still can't believe we blew a 7 point lead with 3 minutes left AT home. We couldn't make any shots down the stretch and I am getting tired of seeing Burks and Higgins race down the floor to take a 17 foot off balance jumper with two guys in their face with with 14 seconds left on the shot clock when you are clinging to a narrow lead. It is just absurd they don't play smarter basketball down the stretch. This team has gone 1-6 in their past 7 and has turned into a huge disappointment. They are easy to defend because you clog the lane and crash the boards when on offense against them.

 

[torero]

I am getting tired of seeing Burks and Higgins race down the floor to take a 17 foot off balance jumper with two guys in their face with with 14 seconds left on the shot clock when you are clinging to a narrow lead. It is just absurd they don't play smarter basketball down the stretch.

:yeahthat:

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Tad said after the game that he called for a foul if they put the ball on the floor, but they didnt it was a catch and shoot, if you foul him thats 3 free throws.

I must not understand the context of Boyle's comment.

Texas A&M drove the length of the court for their 3-pointer that tied the game at the end of regulation.

 

[Quattro]

I didn't see the game, but you see this on EVERY bball board when a team loses. While I like the game, it's just too subjective. What were the overall stats on fouls. Otherwise, well, perception is king and that's usually wrong.

Yes I realize that but both teams got ****ed by the refs but aTm got the better of the calls that lead to points.

 

[torero]

I must not understand the context of Boyle's comment.

Texas A&M drove the length of the court for their 3-pointer that tied the game at the end of regulation.

A&M got the ball back with 10 seconds, and took 6 seconds to get the ball across half court before calling time out. They inbounded it with about 4 seconds left and the guy just caught it and shot it from about 26 feet out, no dribble.

 

[RK]

I must not understand the context of Boyle's comment.

Texas A&M drove the length of the court for their 3-pointer that tied the game at the end of regulation.

He said this during the timeout that a&m called with 4 seconds left. They passed it in and Holmes shot it, they didnt drive the length of the court

 

[Mick Ronson]

atm called the holmes shot off screen out of a TO with 7 secs left after they go the ball across midcourt. in chat, i said foul them on the inbounds...but, i guess that's seen as unclassy.

we really defended that poorly, so does it matter? wide open look from the buffalo...full two steps from the top of the key.

i believed this was a team that could get to the NCAA but the OU loss, Baylor and this gag job.....i think the NIT is what we deserve.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

A&M got the ball back with 10 seconds, and took 6 seconds to get the ball across half court before calling time out. They inbounded it with about 4 seconds left and the guy just caught it and shot it from about 26 feet out, no dribble.

See -- CU should have fouled the moment aTm inbounded the ball. That way only 1 or 2 seconds burns off the clock. (and when I say that -- I mean BEFORE aTm drove the ball all the way across half court)

I don't believe aTm was in the double bonus at that point, but I could be wrong.. Foul - make them hit their free throws. Or - better yet, make them hit one free throw, get a rebound (probably not that hard with this CU team) and then hit some type of followup shot. That puts CU back in control of the clock, rather than aTm in control of the clock.

Giving a team the chance to run a set play for a 3-pointer is just stupid bad coaching.

 

[BuffLuke80]

See -- CU should have fouled the moment aTm inbounded the ball. That way only 1 or 2 seconds burns off the clock. (and when I say that -- I mean BEFORE aTm drove the ball all the way across half court)

I don't believe aTm was in the double bonus at that point, but I could be wrong.. Foul - make them hit their free throws. Or - better yet, make them hit one free throw, get a rebound (probably not that hard with this CU team) and then hit some type of followup shot. That puts CU back in control of the clock, rather than aTm in control of the clock.

Giving a team the chance to run a set play for a 3-pointer is just stupid bad coaching.

Yep, foul on the inbound is the right call imho.

 

[GoBuffs!!]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but most coaches would play it out and make the other team make a incredable shot, and when they werent shooting particularly well from the 3pt line, it probably wasnt a bad call. If they make it (which they did) you go into OT, and normally going into OT on your home floor puts you at the advantage, but that hasnt seemed to be the case for CU.

Yep, foul on the inbound is the right call imho.

I have to disagree with this completly. If you foul at that point ATM will get another good look at a shot to win the game after you trade FTs, and puts them in a situation where possibly a 2 could win/tie. It was rather obvious they were going to take it past half court and call timeout. You then foul on the inbounds (not right away, but before they are set up for a shot) trying to kill as much time as possible. Then even if they make their two shots, you have ~3 seconds with a 1pt lead, you inbounds, they foul, and you are pressured to make the shots, then they have a full court to run with 2-3 seconds and no timeouts to set up plays and you are in the situation worst case: ATM down by 1, lay up to win, best case: CU up by 5, game over.

These are things that have to be practiced and talked about while watching video, not at game time. I am going to give Boyle some slack as in practice and video time he is trying to teach his style of play, and probably not talking much about specific situations. Once he has his system established, that stuff will be handed down from the upperclassmen to the underclassmen, and not have to be talked about as much, letting Boyle talk about these situations. That is why many long time coaches are better off in those situations, their system is established.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but most coaches would play it out and make the other team make a incredable shot, and when they werent shooting particularly well from the 3pt line, it probably wasnt a bad call. If they make it (which they did) you go into OT, and normally going into OT on your home floor puts you at the advantage, but that hasnt seemed to be the case for CU.



I have to disagree with this completly. If you foul at that point ATM will get another good look at a shot to win the game after you trade FTs, and puts them in a situation where possibly a 2 could win/tie. It was rather obvious they were going to take it past half court and call timeout. You then foul on the inbounds (not right away, but before they are set up for a shot) trying to kill as much time as possible. Then even if they make their two shots, you have ~3 seconds with a 1pt lead, you inbounds, they foul, and you are pressured to make the shots, then they have a full court to run with 2-3 seconds and no timeouts to set up plays and you are in the situation worst case: ATM down by 1, lay up to win, best case: CU up by 5, game over.

These are things that have to be practiced and talked about while watching video, not at game time. I am going to give Boyle some slack as in practice and video time he is trying to teach his style of play, and probably not talking much about specific situations. Once he has his system established, that stuff will be handed down from the upperclassmen to the underclassmen, and not have to be talked about as much, letting Boyle talk about these situations. That is why many long time coaches are better off in those situations, their system is established.

We will have to agree to disagree then.

 

[coereg]

The bottom line is that CU should have never allowed that 3-point shot at the end of regulation. If you do, you damn well better make sure you've got someone there to get a hand in the face of the shooter. Hence the coaching strategy by Boyle when he talked about "switching screens". Someone made a poor mistake to not switch on their screener and the shooter was left wide-open. A low percentage shot, however ....

It just goes to show that the "little things" make a big difference in so many of these games. CU handed A&M a win on a silver platter. How Turgeon even had the gaul to open his mouth: "to reach the NCAA's you find ways to win these types of late season games" is beyond me. That was not verbatim by the way, just the notion. Not to say that Turgeon is a bad guy. I would have chosen to keep mum about it. CU made a HUGE little mistake that gave them the win.

 

[dyemeduke]

The bottom line is that CU should have never allowed that 3-point shot at the end of regulation. If you do, you damn well better make sure you've got someone there to get a hand in the face of the shooter. Hence the coaching strategy by Boyle when he talked about "switching screens". Someone made a poor mistake to not switch on their screener and the shooter was left wide-open. A low percentage shot, however ....

It just goes to show that the "little things" make a big difference in so many of these games. CU handed A&M a win on a silver platter. How Turgeon even had the gaul to open his mouth: "to reach the NCAA's you find ways to win these types of late season games" is beyond me. That was not verbatim by the way, just the notion. Not to say that Turgeon is a bad guy. I would have chosen to keep mum about it. CU made a HUGE little mistake that gave them the win.

what's up man? hope life is good Coe. I think Turgeon was referring to his team when he was saying that quote - his A&M team needs to find ways to win close games, and they did...so he's hopeful about his team's prospects. I don't think he was trying to slam CU or their prospects of reaching postseason play. I think Turgeon seems like a standup guy.

 

[GoBuffs!!]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but most coaches would play it out and make the other team make a incredable shot, and when they werent shooting particularly well from the 3pt line, it probably wasnt a bad call. If they make it (which they did) you go into OT, and normally going into OT on your home floor puts you at the advantage, but that hasnt seemed to be the case for CU.



I have to disagree with this completly. If you foul at that point ATM will get another good look at a shot to win the game after you trade FTs, and puts them in a situation where possibly a 2 could win/tie. It was rather obvious they were going to take it past half court and call timeout. You then foul on the inbounds (not right away, but before they are set up for a shot) trying to kill as much time as possible. Then even if they make their two shots, you have ~3 seconds with a 1pt lead, you inbounds, they foul, and you are pressured to make the shots, then they have a full court to run with 2-3 seconds and no timeouts to set up plays and you are in the situation worst case: ATM down by 1, lay up to win, best case: CU up by 5, game over.

These are things that have to be practiced and talked about while watching video, not at game time. I am going to give Boyle some slack as in practice and video time he is trying to teach his style of play, and probably not talking much about specific situations. Once he has his system established, that stuff will be handed down from the upperclassmen to the underclassmen, and not have to be talked about as much, letting Boyle talk about these situations. That is why many long time coaches are better off in those situations, their system is established.

As I said, fouling when up by 3 is not a good idea, it almost bit us tonight...