OU has completely owned the Big 12. They have plenty of dignity.
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Official realignment thread - SEC formally invites OU and Texas to join the conference in 2025
OU has completely owned the Big 12. They have plenty of dignity.
As expected:
Report: Iowa State and Kansas are talking to the Big Ten
The losers of this whole debacle are the other eight Big 12 schools. At least two schools are being proactive, reaching out to the Big Ten.longhornswire.usatoday.com
Simplest way this rolls is:
SEC to 16 thru OU & UT
B1G to 16 thru ISU & KU
ACC to 15/16 thru WVU & sorta ND a member
That leaves the B12 with BU, TTU, TCU, OSU and KSU.
That also leaves the most valuable non-Power Conference schools as UCF, Houston, BYU, USF, SMU, Temple, USF, Cincinnati, San Diego State, Memphis and Boise State. Drops off from there with service academies, lack of national profile/market, lack of facilities, lack of size/resources and/or big schools too late to the party.
I heard an interview with Brett McMurphy this afternoon and this is the scenario he said is most likely - IF the B1G starts it all by looking to expand. In which case the Pac would be left to choose from the teams you listed above. But if the B1G doesn't start the expansion then it's likely that nothing further will happen.
The people making this argument view it as a quick vacation with the game as something to do while they’re there, while others view it as going for the game and the town being something to do.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
Escaping GOR is damn important. Explain why not?
Assumption that the Pac-12 wouldn't go East of I-35 corridor states. The only exception I could see the conference making on that would be in the ridiculous unicorn scenario of Notre Dame having interest due to its USC & Stanford rivalries. But maybe if Houston was the target, Tulane as a travel pairing isn't so outside of things since they've even got that AAU Member calling card.
If you have money and the people you're negotiating with don't, it's a pretty easy "negotiation."
SEC out here adding two blue bloods to its conference and we’re sitting here talking about the PAC 12 not considering taking anyone who doesn’t meet certain academic research criteria. Lol
OU & UT both meet that academic criteria in addition to being athletics blue bloods.
There are no athletics blue bloods available other than KU in basketball (if the B1G doesn't move on them).
So are you suggesting that the Pac-12 expands with non blue bloods who also fail to meet the academic or cultural standards?
The best football, rivalry and media revenue fit is BYU. But... won't play on Sunday so scheduling other sports is a mess, does not have high research intensity or a policy of academic freedom, and still has same sex relationships as a violation of its honor code. Will not happen. Should not happen.
Well, we have people that can’t come to grips with recruits turning down the flatirons.
Pac12 gonna Pac12
Because there are federal courts. Because nobody would ever sign a contract with a public university from Texas if they were unenforceable, including the SEC.
What schools represent such great options on athletic reputation and revenue potential that the Pac-12 is wrong not to change its values for them?
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
As expected:
Report: Iowa State and Kansas are talking to the Big Ten
The losers of this whole debacle are the other eight Big 12 schools. At least two schools are being proactive, reaching out to the Big Ten.
Simplest way this rolls is:
SEC to 16 thru OU & UT
B1G to 16 thru ISU & KU
ACC to 15/16 thru WVU & sorta ND a member
That leaves the B12 with BU, TTU, TCU, OSU and KSU.
That also leaves the most valuable non-Power Conference schools as UCF, Houston, BYU, USF, SMU, Temple, USF, Cincinnati, San Diego State, Memphis and Boise State. Drops off from there with service academies, lack of national profile/market, lack of facilities, lack of size/resources and/or big schools too late to the party.
I'm not sure what the Pac-12 should do.
But if it does anything, I'd be shocked if it allowed any university that isn't currently D1A in football, isn't at least Carnegie Tier 1 on research intensity or any university East of the I-35 corridor states.
Here's the list of remaining Big 12 and non-Power Conference schools that would fit that profile if things break the simple way I started this post with for the SEC, B1G and ACC:
Colorado State
Hawaii
Houston
Kansas State
Nevada - Las Vegas
Nevada - Reno
New Mexico
North Texas
Oklahoma State
Rice
Texas - El Paso
Texas Tech
If you had to pick from the above 12 schools, which 4 would you take?
Oklahoma State and Texas Tech are no brainers to me. I'm okay stopping there. If you're telling me I've gotta get to 16-
CSU's a **** no. They don't bring anything we don't already have, and I don't want them in the same league as us.
North Texas? Meh. There are a ton of Tech alums in DFW (They've played Baylor at Jerry World at least once) so I'd say we're getting a foothold in the metroplex by adding TT.
Hawaii-Probably not unless we could get them as a football only member and they're willing to wait until after 2024.
K-State? I'm okay with it because of the history we have with them. Maybe them and UNLV so we can stop with the "Rumble in the Rockies" nonsense?
UNLV-Maybe
UNR-Reno's not that big. Lean no.
New Mexico-If they were good in football or basketball, sure. They're not. No.
Houston-Possible 15th member for sure.
Rice/Tulane-down for adding one of these.
UTEP-No way.
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OK, so this was a flippant response, and you probably deserve a more serious one.
A few unmovable facts:
1. The media deal and distribution of the revenue based on that GOR is defined (i.e. There are x dollars per year and y years remaining - so every school could do the math and figure out how much they're gonna get).
2. The distribution of revenue within the b12 was not level, OU and UT received more than their 1/10 share.
3. What if the other schools a. were able to and b. were willing to once they did they math enforce the GOR? What then? The schools kept tier 3 rights. So they'd still get the same as in #1.
4. Depending on how the media contacts are written, there's a good chance that each B12 school will get *more* money with OU and UT out of the picture due to #2.
So...
What are the damages? What are you suing for?
The GOR and media deals had expiration dates, so there's no plausible claim of "future" value.
It's really hard to claim harm when you're getting more money than you would get if the court forced the parties to do what you want them to do.
"they have to fulfill their contract even though it means I'll get less money!"
There's no possible long term reputational or future revenue claim because all of the contracts have expiration dates.
So... they might get a couple million more by crying about it, but at the end of the day OU and UT had, and still have, the upper hand in any negotiations with that conference.
Yes, I’m suggesting that the Pac 12 expands with whatever programs will move the needle for the conference from an athletic competitive/financial standpoint. Recruits don’t come to play school.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
it seems important to me that you can't sue according to legal analysis in OP. Is this unique to Texas? or is this the case in other states?
If this more broad that Texas, that's really important.
I have always understood GOR to be handcuffs. They don't seem to be, at least in Texas.
Am I getting this right, ski?
There are no good options for the Pac 12, but self-limiting the candidate pool is the worst option.
When conferences work together, a raid from one side isn't far away. Either CU stays in the P12 or goes to the B1G.
1. The P12 will have to go to 16 because that would mean an unhappy USC or UCLA being away from their Pac-8 buddies. TT & OSU is a must since they are a rivalry pair. I wish we could go after UTSA but they would have to build a new arena and they have been talking about a new on campus stadium. Then Houston. All four are rated at the same research tier so there should be less opposition to OSU's inclusion.
Nick Saban said we might as well all go to 10 conference games (I believe) and that means seven in the P16 East and we could guarantee a CA trip every season that way. A big YES to Nebraska from the B1G pairing.
Darian3Hagan
'89 Player of the Year
So the same reason as Nebraska.
Since there are no fits like CU and Utah were (national athletics profiles, good & growing media and recruiting locales, AAU, Carnegie R1, state flagships, regionally aligned, etc.), I think if you're going to take a flyer on someone who falls short you check as many boxes as possible with schools that at least have the trajectory and potential to grow into the complete package.
If going to go a bit outside while looking at trying to check a good number of boxes & looking to the future:
I'd break some of the research intensity requirements to take a long, hard look at San Diego State. I think with their Mission Valley stadium & research campus projects underway coupled with the market, cultural fit and athletics success they check a ton of boxes despite not quite being there yet. A few others with similar cases to be made.
SDSU + UNLV both deliver a lot I like and we're also talking about the 17th and 27th largest US metros, respectively.
Then pair with Houston + TCU if 16 is the magic number. 5th & 4th largest metros, respectively.
All of the above are universities that have been investing a ton in their campuses and have very bright futures for a number of reasons.
I've beat the drum for SD St, but have been rebuffed and told the cali schools won't allow it. I would be over the moon with SD St and UNLV. Locks up everything.
This is a very dumb post. Sorry.
Bailey1149
New Member
I've been to both 50+ times and strongly disagree.
Considering the general attractiveness of the co-eds at SMU, I’d like to congratulate you, good mango.
Dude. Again. A&M isn’t leaving the SEC for the PAC 12,
and why does everyone insist this means very conference is going to 16? Sec is adding the two of the 3 best available schools in the country. What’s does adding Iowa st and KU do for the Big 10? Nothing. Adding Texas tech to the office 12? Again nothing. We’re past the era of adding just to add.
That also means a P16 South/East division would have SDSU & UNLV assuming that the Pac-8 want their own division. If we stay at 14, USC & UCLA can rotate in and out of the P14 South/East.
We would be able to wait until year 1 of the next media rights deal to add those two or even the media rights deal after that one.