Officially off the Macintyre bandwagon

[The Alabaster Yak]

Yep. And even though Saban's a defensive coach, he goes through OCs like water if they try to do things their way instead of following the way he wants games called. He hires great coaches, but they are there to learn from Saban and implement his vision while bringing something Saban saw them do that he liked. He's not backing off and letting another coach control the room.

I think if many of you MM critics would step back for a second you'd have to admit that you agree with the Saban approach. However, you don't respect MacIntyre and believe that he should back off and allow coaches to do their own thing. You think that if that happens then, with the right coordinators, CU will be successful in spite of MM.

I'm cool if you don't like him as a head coach and believe he needs to be replaced. Every coach is going to have his critics and it's fair game. They get paid a ton of money to deal with that pressure and heat. But be honest about it. Let's not be pretending that anyone's problem with MacIntyre is that he doesn't tolerate insubordination and an unwillingness to collaborate.

P.S. This type of thing is why Leavitt needed to move on. It was a Buddy Ryan/Mike Ditka type situation. Leavitt didn't accept his role and respect his boss. MacIntyre was not going to tolerate that any longer. Some of you were in the Leavitt camp. Fine. But I believe that's the problem in a nutshell: there shouldn't be camps. That chemistry wasn't going to remain stable for long and it was good that 2016 was the end of it. I guarantee that both MacIntyre and Leavitt are happy to have moved on. They'll both go on to success as coaches just like Ryan and Ditka did, just not together.

Maybe it’s just because I’m really stoned right now, but this was an epic post that really encapsulated a reasonably balanced perspective.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Yep. And even though Saban's a defensive coach, he goes through OCs like water if they try to do things their way instead of following the way he wants games called. He hires great coaches, but they are there to learn from Saban and implement his vision while bringing something Saban saw them do that he liked. He's not backing off and letting another coach control the room.

I think if many of you MM critics would step back for a second you'd have to admit that you agree with the Saban approach. However, you don't respect MacIntyre and believe that he should back off and allow coaches to do their own thing. You think that if that happens then, with the right coordinators, CU will be successful in spite of MM.

I'm cool if you don't like him as a head coach and believe he needs to be replaced. Every coach is going to have his critics and it's fair game. They get paid a ton of money to deal with that pressure and heat. But be honest about it. Let's not be pretending that anyone's problem with MacIntyre is that he doesn't tolerate insubordination and an unwillingness to collaborate.

P.S. This type of thing is why Leavitt needed to move on. It was a Buddy Ryan/Mike Ditka type situation. Leavitt didn't accept his role and respect his boss. MacIntyre was not going to tolerate that any longer. Some of you were in the Leavitt camp. Fine. But I believe that's the problem in a nutshell: there shouldn't be camps. That chemistry wasn't going to remain stable for long and it was good that 2016 was the end of it. I guarantee that both MacIntyre and Leavitt are happy to have moved on. They'll both go on to success as coaches just like Ryan and Ditka did, just not together.

Fair enough, but when you can basically hand pick your roster from across the country and you win 95% of your games then there's no question whatsoever what makes Alabama tick and that's the head coach. Mac may prefer a similar approach, but when your results aren't very good, then suddenly you hire a big name DC and in 2 years the team is playing for a conference championship that no one could have predicted, it's harder for a fan like me to just accept that he had to leave because of their personality differences. Saban just replaces coaches and continues to win every game, Mac can't afford to push out good coaches because there's some tension he can't resolve.

tl:dr version: Mac is not Saban

 

[Duff Man]

Saban walked into a blue blood program and bent it to his will. He changed how that program approaches football in basically every aspect. Truly a one-of-a-kind coach.

 

[Buffnik]

Fair enough, but when you can basically hand pick your roster from across the country and you win 95% of your games then there's no question whatsoever what makes Alabama tick and that's the head coach. Mac may prefer a similar approach, but when your results aren't very good, then suddenly you hire a big name DC and in 2 years the team is playing for a conference championship that no one could have predicted, it's harder for a fan like me to just accept that he had to leave because of their personality differences. Saban just replaces coaches and continues to win every game, Mac can't afford to push out good coaches because there's some tension he can't resolve.

tl:dr version: Mac is not Saban

Insert just about any HC name and what I types still applies. That's how a HC has to be. Saban's just the gold standard.

You know this. Your problem is with MacIntyre and what you think of him as a coach compared to how you think of Leavitt as a coach. Valid opinion. But you don't want a head coach in name only and you certainly don't want a HC who would accept it. Hell, that's what tore down Mack Brown's UT program when they forced the "coach in waiting" crap on him and it tore the locker room & fan base apart.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Insert just about any HC name and what I types still applies. That's how a HC has to be. Saban's just the gold standard.

You know this. Your problem is with MacIntyre and what you think of him as a coach compared to how you think of Leavitt as a coach. Valid opinion. But you don't want a head coach in name only and you certainly don't want a HC who would accept it. Hell, that's what tore down Mack Brown's UT program when they forced the "coach in waiting" crap on him and it tore the locker room & fan base apart.

Of course I don't want a coach in name only, but I also don't want a coach who messes with a winning formula because he's uncomfortable - he's paid to win, not to ensure he gets along with the guys he works with every single day. Whatever the dynamic between Mac, Leavitt, and the rest of the staff - it was working. Maybe it wasn't sustainable and was bound to implode, I don't know. What I do know is Mac hadn't proven he could do it without Leavitt so in the interest of trying to maintain a winner, I would have preferred Mac try to swallow some pride a little while longer for the good of the program.

 

[Buffnik]

Of course I don't want a coach in name only, but I also don't want a coach who messes with a winning formula because he's uncomfortable - he's paid to win, not to ensure he gets along with the guys he works with every single day. Whatever the dynamic between Mac, Leavitt, and the rest of the staff - it was working. Maybe it wasn't sustainable and was bound to implode, I don't know. What I do know is Mac hadn't proven he could do it without Leavitt so in the interest of trying to maintain a winner, I would have preferred Mac try to swallow some pride a little while longer for the good of the program.

I think that CU was more willing to do that than Leavitt was. RG made the best offer he possibly could to try to keep him.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Macintyre haters may get their wish this cycle. Hopefully RG has some realistic high quality replacements available when the music stops.

 

[hawg1]

Macintyre haters may get their wish this cycle. Hopefully RG has some realistic high quality replacements available when the music stops.

All good ADs have a list in their top drawer. And, opening or not, they nurture that list.

 

[Buffnik]

All good ADs have a list in their top drawer. And, opening or not, they nurture that list.

That's not something with which CU fans are familiar. Lot of years between Marolt and George with the nature of the job changing a lot in that period. RG's really our first modern era AD.

 

[hawg1]

That's not something with which CU fans are familiar. Lot of years between Marolt and George with the nature of the job changing a lot in that period. RG's really our first modern era AD.

Fair point. That position now requires executive skills. All good executives know their succession plan at all times.

 

[ahoelsken]

I agree he's safe for now. However, with a loss next week and a 5-7 finish that is certainly not an average season. Two of those wins were from an embarrassingly weak OOC and the third from a middle-of-the-road MWC team. None of which are our peers. Against peers CU very may well finish 2-7. Thats downright awful and I don't understand why some folks here continue to call this an "average" season.

Another one of these next year and he should be gone, imo.

The bad OOC makes 5-7 a failure. Lose Saturday, and the goodwill he earned last year is gone. We're back to bowl or bust in '18. He doesn't make a bowl next year.........he's gotta go.

 

[hawg1]

The bad OOC makes 5-7 a failure. Lose Saturday, and the goodwill he earned last year is gone. We're back to bowl or bust in '18. He doesn't make a bowl next year.........he's gotta go.

Disagree. It’s not bowl or bust. He has to win 6 conference games or he’s gone. Five at the very, very minimum.

 

[ahoelsken]

Disagree. It’s not bowl or bust. He has to win 6 conference games or he’s gone. Five at the very, very minimum.

I think we're on the same page. This season was unacceptable, especially with the pathetic OOC we played. He's gotta make staff changes, especially on the offensive side of the ball-everybody but Chev and maybe Hagan are fair game.

 

[gobuffs58]

I think we're on the same page. This season was unacceptable, especially with the pathetic OOC we played. He's gotta make staff changes, especially on the offensive side of the ball-everybody but Chev and maybe Hagan are fair game.

why does chev always get a pass??

 

[hawg1]

why does chev always get a pass??

Chiv does not get a pass. The unit regressed. Shay got fat, literally. The rotations were quizzical. The blocking was down. He’s not ready to be an OC. But he should not be fired.

Lindgren, Bernardi and Jeffcoat have to go, maybe one more. DJ is on a short, short leash. The 10th assistant is key. The Player Personnel/Ops position has to be upgraded.

Chiv is the least of their worries. Bigger fish to fry, ultimately MM. He is not the long-term solution at CU.

 

[CULifer]

How so? Saban knows he is the best coach in history. Nobody makes him feel threatened.

Was pointing out that I get the sense that MM would rather hire (and especially retain) someone he likes personality-wise, and keeps dead weight around too long, and in that sort of way he's the opposite of Saban. I like MM and want him to succeed, and respect him for the values and leadership he provides to the young men in his program.

 

[SilvrGldBuff]

I thought I would do a quick fact check on the FACTS.

Opponent	CU Yards Allow	CU Yard/Play	OU Yards Allow	OU Yard/Play
Washington	414	6.9	451	7.78
UCLA	467	5.85	408	5.59
Arizona	567	10.13	330	4.13
Wash St	406	5.21	369	5.51
California	435	5.58	263	3.65
Arizona St.	583	6.63	489	5.32

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think you are over stating the facts. In the six common opponent the OU defense has performed better than CU 5 of the 6 times. In the conference stats OU is 4th in conference games in total defense and CU is 11th so I would believe you are trying to build a narrative that does not match the facts.

Those stats show the Shouda/Coulda/Woulda feeling I’ve had all year (just like 2015) and we are sitting at 9-2 right now - 8-3 if you just s**t show the Wazzu game. I still think it comes down to a few dudes making a play (may be motivated by MFJL or may not) - we didn’t make them in ‘15, we made them in ‘16 (could have easily lost 4 more games), didn’t make them this year. I’m hoping Landman or some other young dude makes a play Saturday that changes the game for our favor. Will go a long way to push us back to top of the PAC.

 

[aghcsm]

Disagree. It’s not bowl or bust. He has to win 6 conference games or he’s gone. Five at the very, very minimum.

Is this what you hope/want or what you expect? ‘Cause I see no way CU will dump MM until after the 2019 season, barring a scandal. Regardless of what I may hope/want.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Getting a very good coach seems to be an arms race. Teams in our bracket are already firing their coaches before they leave the field with the anticipation of needing a new coach hire ASAP. RG may have a list. Whether he can hire the best candidates on that list is another matter entirely.

All good ADs have a list in their top drawer. And, opening or not, they nurture that list.

 

[DBT]

So, in 2015 we were 4-9 but on the way up. This year we’re 5-6 and on the way down. The last three seasons have all hinged on close wins and close losses. I don’t see how RG can make a change unless, one, Mac leaves or, two, he already has an agreement in place with the next guy. In which case he’d have to have the support of Admin, regents and money from boosters. In other words, Mac is back for at least one more year.

 

[SINKRATZ]

So, in 2015 we were 4-9 but on the way up. This year we’re 5-6 and on the way down. The last three seasons have all hinged on close wins and close losses. I don’t see how RG can make a change unless, one, Mac leaves or, two, he already has an agreement in place with the next guy. In which case he’d have to have the support of Admin, regents and money from boosters. In other words, Mac is back for at least one more year.

Yeah but if it's true that Mac is actively lobbying for the Ole Miss job, then him coming back if he doesn't get that job would be a disaster. If Mac wants out, then I think you find a way to make that happen even if it's not to Ole Miss.

 

[Bliff Cranch]

Anyone here know whether JMac is close to graduating?

 

[Sideburn]

So, in 2015 we were 4-9 but on the way up. This year we’re 5-6 and on the way down. The last three seasons have all hinged on close wins and close losses. I don’t see how RG can make a change unless, one, Mac leaves or, two, he already has an agreement in place with the next guy. In which case he’d have to have the support of Admin, regents and money from boosters. In other words, Mac is back for at least one more year.

Maybe this should be in Barzil, not sure and if so a mod can delete or edit this post. But I firmly believe had the Tumpkin situation been handled differently at the highest levels on down, CU wins 8 games and building momentum heading into 2018. Not earth shattering news I know, but I do believe that situation was a poison pill that has slowly ate away at this program, and it continues to do so. Finger pointing, scapegoating and fines aside, I think that really effected HCMM on a very personal level. That type of situation makes you questions human nature and your ability to identify good honest people. I think HCMM's core was shaken by it and it has showed this season. This is of course, is just my opinion, but HCMM has been a changed man this year.

 

[DBT]

Maybe this should be in Barzil, not sure and if so a mod can delete or edit this post. But I firmly believe had the Tumpkin situation been handled differently at the highest levels on down, CU wins 8 games and building momentum heading into 2018. Not earth shattering news I know, but I do believe that situation was a poison pill that has slowly ate away at this program, and it continues to do so. Finger pointing, scapegoating and fines aside, I think that really effected HCMM on a very personal level. That type of situation makes you questions human nature and your ability to identify good honest people. I think HCMM's core was shaken by it and it has showed this season. This is of course, is just my opinion, but HCMM has been a changed man this year.

Yeah, there is no doubt about it. That situation shook him to the core. But this is a results oriented business and he’d better shake all of that off and get focused. I expect we’ll probably lose tonight. That will be a big setback for him. Now, if we somehow win, it could reenergize him. A lot hinges on tonight’s game. Tonight will require his best gameday coaching performance since he’s been here, I believe.

 

[Bliff Cranch]

Maybe this should be in Barzil, not sure and if so a mod can delete or edit this post. But I firmly believe had the Tumpkin situation been handled differently at the highest levels on down, CU wins 8 games and building momentum heading into 2018. Not earth shattering news I know, but I do believe that situation was a poison pill that has slowly ate away at this program, and it continues to do so. Finger pointing, scapegoating and fines aside, I think that really effected HCMM on a very personal level. That type of situation makes you questions human nature and your ability to identify good honest people. I think HCMM's core was shaken by it and it has showed this season. This is of course, is just my opinion, but HCMM has been a changed man this year.

The whole Tumpkin fallout clearly irreparably corroded HCMM, and I agree he is bitter, but the on field performance of key players, suspensions, and injuries are simply correlations. This team was over-hyped and probably destined to mediocrity at best in 2017, regardless of how HCMM felt he was treated.

 

[WarBuff]

Trying to think of a game during MM's tenure here that he has won that was a stunning upset. Oregon last year maybe??? Also close last year at Michigan, and some very frustrating narrow losses during the last 3 years, but for the life of me, I cannot think of a single game (outside of perhaps) the Oregon game where a win by CU was viewed as a real upset.

Has he had enough time that we should have expected that by now?

 

[DBT]

The whole Tumpkin fallout clearly irreparably corroded HCMM, and I agree he is bitter, but the on field performance of key players, suspensions, and injuries are simply correlations. This team was over-hyped and probably destined to mediocrity at best in 2017, regardless of how HCMM felt he was treated.

Last year we were all on the same page and were focused. This year we are a disjointed bunch of individuals pulling in different directions. There is no glue. I feel bad for Linndsey because I think he really tried to be that guy. But when you have captains and other key players geting suspended, well, not good. Something is clearly amiss.

 

[Buffnik]

Trying to think of a game during MM's tenure here that he has won that was a stunning upset. Oregon last year maybe??? Also close last year at Michigan, and some very frustrating narrow losses during the last 3 years, but for the life of me, I cannot think of a single game (outside of perhaps) the Oregon game where a win by CU was viewed as a real upset.

Has he had enough time that we should have expected that by now?

I think that winning at Stanford last year was drastically underrated. People didn't realize how good they were because they didn't realize how good UW and WSU were. Those game and the Buffs were their only losses all season. And that's a program that had abused the Buffs every meeting before that.

 

[Sideburn]

I think that winning at Stanford last year was drastically underrated. People didn't realize how good they were because they didn't realize how good UW and WSU were. Those game and the Buffs were their only losses all season. And that's a program that had abused the Buffs every meeting before that.

Yeah that was actually a pretty big win for the program on a few different levels. It was ugly as sin, but a win is a win is a win. Never underestimate the motivation of In & Out burger!

 

[Buffnik]

Yeah that was actually a pretty big win for the program on a few different levels. It was ugly as sin, but a win is a win is a win. Never underestimate the motivation of In & Out burger!

You won't find anyone less concerned with style points than I am. Words of wisdom from a crotchedy old OL coach I once had, which I think applies to just about everything in life: [after a player who I thought was soft missed a block in practice and then tried to ask a fine point question about technique] "I don't care if you block him with your ass! Just ****ing get it done!".