OK here is my question

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I don't think any of those coaches walked into the same situation you had hear at CU. I am not saying ALL new coaches get 5 years. I think the situation that happened at CU was unique in a lot of ways.

I was willing to give Barnett 3 years. Neu had to win from day 1 with the talent he took over.

I think Hawkins situation is more inline with what Mac, Barnett at NW, Snyder at KSU, Pinkel at MU.

Again every situation is different, but in those situations above 5 years was closer to the norm.

**Cue the closet GB fans**

 

[Buffarino]

No Barnett did took care of that for us.

True, although Hawk has done nothing to date, other than a win 2 years ago vs. OU, to persuade people to reconsider.

 

[Nor Cal Buff]

No Barnett did took care of that for us.

I'm no huge Barnett fan, but please explain how him taking us to the B12 Championship game 4 out of his last 5 years makes our program a laughingstock. The program had its issues, but it was still a national program regularly in the top 25. Remind when we were even ranked under Hawkins? The acceptance of Hawkins' inadequacies by some fans really shows how far we've fallen.

 

[Buffnik]

You are bound and determined to not see the good wins and losses it seems.

Kudos for Oklahoma and the 2 Texas Tech wins.

There is no such thing as a good loss, Chilly. At the best end of this scale is "Sometimes you play well and they're just better" and a the worst end of this scale are "We were awful in every phase of the game and embarrassed ourselves". Go through your list and look at the losses. There are more of the latter.

There is no such thing as a bad win, either. But "we barely survived at home against a D2 team" and "we barely survived at home against the two worst teams in the Big 12 North (which is a national laughingstock, btw)" are as close to bad wins as it gets.

To say that there have been as many highs as lows is incorrect. But even if I granted that, all I'm agreeing to is that we've been inconsistent and overall mediocre. Is that really acceptable to you?

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

I'm no huge Barnett fan, but please explain how him taking us to the B12 Championship game 4 out of his last 5 years makes our program a laughingstock. The program had its issues, but it was still a national program regularly in the top 25. Remind when we were even ranked under Hawkins? The acceptance of Hawkins' inadequacies by some fans really shows how far we've fallen.

Huh? we might've cracked the top 25 a couple times late in GB's tenure, but let's not act like we were consistently ranked team. GB had most of his success with Neuheisels recruits.

 

[Chilly]

True, although Hawk has done nothing to date, other than a win 2 years ago vs. OU, to persuade people to reconsider.

So the win against TTU on the road was crap? Beating NU was did nothing to help persuade people? WVU only made us look worse?

I GET IT! There are many disappointments. I don't disagree with this, but please lets stop acting as if there was only 1 good win in the last 2 years!

Let's at least acknowledge that Hawkins has given us some great moments, because if EVERYTHING was as negative as it is being portrayed, then EVERYONE would have been calling for his head before now. And outside of a select few I know very few people that wanted Hawkins fired at the end of last season.

 

[Chilly]

Kudos for Oklahoma and the 2 Texas Tech wins.

There is no such thing as a good loss, Chilly. At the best end of this scale is "Sometimes you play well and they're just better" and a the worst end of this scale are "We were awful in every phase of the game and embarrassed ourselves". Go through your list and look at the losses. There are more of the latter.

There is no such thing as a bad win, either. But "we barely survived at home against a D2 team" and "we barely survived at home against the two worst teams in the Big 12 North (which is a national laughingstock, btw)" are as close to bad wins as it gets.

To say that there have been as many highs as lows is incorrect. But even if I granted that, all I'm agreeing to is that we've been inconsistent and overall mediocre. Is that really acceptable to you?

Long term NO. But it is about were I would expect a very young team to be in the rebuilding process. This year I expect to see this team grow up and the light to start to click. Next year I expect to see an experienced team winning big games and climbing up in the rankings.

 

[Buffarino]

So the win against TTU on the road was crap? Beating NU was did nothing to help persuade people? WVU only made us look worse?

I GET IT! There are many disappointments. I don't disagree with this, but please lets stop acting as if there was only 1 good win in the last 2 years!

Let's at least acknowledge that Hawkins has given us some great moments, because if EVERYTHING was as negative as it is being portrayed, then EVERYONE would have been calling for his head before now. And outside of a select few I know very few people that wanted Hawkins fired at the end of last season.

They aren't getting better, Chilly. They're getting worse. And that's where I'm coming from. I fully expect a loss on Friday, potentially a bad loss. To ****ing Toledo! A MAC team!

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But what is happening in Boulder to give me hope right now? Give me something! Because outside of Goodman hitting a long kick, I'm not seeing it. CU's OL got manhandled by a sub-par MWC team with a young DL. CU's DL got used and abused. I am afraid of what Okie St. or UT will do to this team if CSU did that. CSU abused the Buffs. The game was never close and the Buffs were never in it. The score was quite deceptive.

 

[Chilly]

I'm no huge Barnett fan, but please explain how him taking us to the B12 Championship game 4 out of his last 5 years makes our program a laughingstock. The program had its issues, but it was still a national program regularly in the top 25. Remind when we were even ranked under Hawkins? The acceptance of Hawkins' inadequacies by some fans really shows how far we've fallen.

I can tell you after losing 70-3 and having to ride the rail back to our car. There was a LOT of laughing going on.

I think "The program had issues" is quite the understatement.

The acceptance of Hawkins' inadequacies by some fans really shows how far we've fallen.
I think it shows just how bad CU football had fallen at the end for Barnett, so some of us are willing to be just a little more patient to see if Hawkins can't turn this around. If I thought Hawkins took over a program that was on the same level as what Barnett took over, I wouldn't have near the patience I do right now.

 

[Buffnik]

I don't think any of those coaches walked into the same situation you had hear at CU. I am not saying ALL new coaches get 5 years. I think the situation that happened at CU was unique in a lot of ways.

I was willing to give Barnett 3 years. Neu had to win from day 1 with the talent he took over.

I think Hawkins situation is more inline with what Mac, Barnett at NW, Snyder at KSU, Pinkel at MU.

Again every situation is different, but in those situations about 5 years was closer to the norm.

Chilly, I can almost agree with you. Except for one thing. It's year 4 of Hawkins' regime and it doesn't look like we're even as good as we were in GB's last year.

Where's the rebuilding?

I was in Hawk's camp and wanted to believe that he's changed things, but after Sunday I decided to do some heavy thinking about whether the 3 things I have commended Hawkins for really hold water:

1. Yes, we have set 2 consecutive team GPA records. That's great. But we've also had numerous players leave the program while ineligible and are facing a 6 scholarship NCAA penalty for not meeting Academic Progress Report standards.

2. Yes, we had a great recruiting class in 2007 and have brought in the top Colorado prospect every year. But we have also not had a top 25 class in the other 3 years and attrition has whittled down what we did get. Further, a good number of our higher-rated guys never made it into CU (Nuckols) or never saw the field (Katoa). Our current recruiting class is coming down to battles with MWC and C-USA programs and we have been losing these battles more often than not.

3. Yes, we have more depth at some positions than we did in 2006. But we began this season with 2 former walkons starting at WR, 3 offensive linemen getting their 1st college starts, had to replace an injured center with a walkon during the game, 3 defensive linemen getting their 1st college starts, only 3 QBs under scholarship, etc., etc.

I asked myself: if the things I was using to justify patience while we were putting such a bad product on the field are not holding water, then aren't I a fool if I keep supporting the current regime? My head is officially out of the sand. I'm not going to do it any more. It's time to end a bad relationship and move on.

 

[Chilly]

They aren't getting better, Chilly. They're getting worse. And that's where I'm coming from. I fully expect a loss on Friday, potentially a bad loss. To ****ing Toledo! A MAC team!

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. But what is happening in Boulder to give me hope right now? Give me something! Because outside of Goodman hitting a long kick, I'm not seeing it. CU's OL got manhandled by a sub-par MWC team with a young DL. CU's DL got used and abused. I am afraid of what Okie St. or UT will do to this team if CSU did that. CSU abused the Buffs. The game was never close and the Buffs were never in it. The score was quite deceptive.

They aren't getting better.
Are we really willing to say this after 1 game this year? If you have the opportunity, re-watch the second half of this game. Our D not only turned things around they began to control the line of scrimmage. Our O-line play was still suspect, but the coaches made some good adjustments at half time and started to hit some things over the middle where the D was most suspect.

I agree the first game is not very encouraging, but I just don't think it's fair to say we are getting worse just yet. If we finish 3-1 OOC with a win a WVU are you still willing to say we haven't improved. That is part of what I am trying to get across. 1/2 the teams started 0-1 this year. If we are 1-3 at the end of OOC schedule than I think the evidence against us not improving this year is a there. I just don't see it after 1 half of really bad play.

I am afraid of what Okie St. or UT will do to this team if CSU did that.
They will own and abuse us. Even if we played well agains CSU did you don't expect us to be ready to compete against these teams yet do you? I want a win here as bad as anyone, but these are potentially two top 5 teams when we play them. I would be very surprised if we could hang with these teams on the road.

The game was never close and the Buffs were never in it.
I somewhat disagree. Buffs had some very good momentum going in the 3rd quarter and if not for a big time hit and questionable call (yes it's part of the game and not an excuse) We were very close to being right back in this game and a lot of momentum on our side.

None of that excuses the 1st half of play against CSU. It was horrendous and Hawkins needs to fix it.

 

[Buffnik]

We are not getting better

The high point of this program was last year. We started up with a solid win against a CSU team in its first game under a new coach. We followed that up with a nail biter we probably should have lost against D2 Eastern Washington. Then, we beat a struggling West Virginia team that had been handled by East Carolina due in large part to game mismanagement by the WVU coaching staff.

Once again, this was the high point.

From there, we have lost 8 out of 10 games with our only wins being at home against terrible Iowa State and Kansas State teams. (Edit: It can be argued that we should have lost those. In fact, go to their message boards and those fans talk about their CU game being bad luck like we do about last year's Nebraska game.)

How can anyone say we're getting better?

 

[Buffarino]

They aren't getting better.
Are we really willing to say this after 1 game this year? If you have the opportunity, re-watch the second half of this game. Our D not only turned things around they began to control the line of scrimmage. Our O-line play was still suspect, but the coaches made some good adjustments at half time and started to hit some things over the middle where the D was most suspect.

Based on what I saw Sunday night, yes I am willing to say that after just 1 game. They were flat, unemotional, and got absolutely abused on both lines, although I do agree the DL picked it up in the 2nd half. The OL never seemed to pick it up and that concerns me a lot more than the DL. Against CSU that is completely unacceptable, and if the Buffs can't run the ball this year, they're ****ed with a capital F.

I have the game sitting on my DVR. I can't bring myself to watch it yet. I might never get there.

I agree the first game is not very encouraging, but I just don't think it's fair to say we are getting worse just yet. If we finish 3-1 OOC with a win a WVU are you still willing to say we haven't improved. That is part of what I am trying to get across. 1/2 the teams started 0-1 this year. If we are 1-3 at the end of OOC schedule than I think the evidence against us not improving this year is a there. I just don't see it after 1 half of really bad play.

If they manage to finish the OOC slate at 3-1, I will still have a hard time saying they are better than last year. They finished OOC play at 3-1 last year and looked a hell of a lot better vs. CSU than they did this year. They also had a tougher OOC schedule last year.

am afraid of what Okie St. or UT will do to this team if CSU did that.

They will own and abuse us. Even if we played well agains CSU did you don't expect us to be ready to compete against these teams yet do you? I want a win here as bad as anyone, but these are potentially two top 5 teams when we play them. I would be very surprised if we could hang with these teams on the road.

Win? No. Compete and not get blown out? Yes, I do expect that.

The game was never close and the Buffs were never in it.

I somewhat disagree. Buffs had some very good momentum going in the 3rd quarter and if not for a big time hit and questionable call (yes it's part of the game and not an excuse) We were very close to being right back in this game and a lot of momentum on our side.

None of that excuses the 1st half of play against CSU. It was horrendous and Hawkins needs to fix it.

You were watching a different game than I was if you think they were ever in that game. They finished the game with 29 yards rushing. 29 yards. Against CSU.

 

[Chilly]

Chilly, I can almost agree with you. Except for one thing. It's year 4 of Hawkins' regime and it doesn't look like we're even as good as we were in GB's last year.

Where's the rebuilding?

I was in Hawk's camp and wanted to believe that he's changed things, but after Sunday I decided to do some heavy thinking about whether the 3 things I have commended Hawkins for really hold water:

1. Yes, we have set 2 consecutive team GPA records. That's great. But we've also had numerous players leave the program while ineligible and are facing a 6 scholarship NCAA penalty for not meeting Academic Progress Report standards.

2. Yes, we had a great recruiting class in 2007 and have brought in the top Colorado prospect every year. But we have also not had a top 25 class in the other 3 years and attrition has whittled down what we did get. Further, a good number of our higher-rated guys never made it into CU (Nuckols) or never saw the field (Katoa). Our current recruiting class is coming down to battles with MWC and C-USA programs and we have been losing these battles more often than not.

3. Yes, we have more depth at some positions than we did in 2006. But we began this season with 2 former walkons starting at WR, 3 offensive linemen getting their 1st college starts, had to replace an injured center with a walkon during the game, 3 defensive linemen getting their 1st college starts, only 3 QBs under scholarship, etc., etc.

I asked myself: if the things I was using to justify patience while we were putting such a bad product on the field are not holding water, then aren't I a fool if I keep supporting the current regime? My head is officially out of the sand. I'm not going to do it any more. It's time to end a bad relationship and move on.

I agree the CSU loss doesn't look good, But I also understand that we have game coming up this Friday and CSU is 1 game so far. If you thought Hawkins was the right coach for CU after the season last year, then I think we should look past this CSU game and see what happens next.

Just as a side note. Of topic really. But Barnett lost 2 out of 4 to CSU his first 4 years as well didn't he? CSU is not the gimme game is use to be. That is not just because of CU's decline. As much as we hate it. Sonny did some good things up at CSU and Fairchild looks like a good hire who is going to keep that program moving forward.

 

[Buffarino]

Just as a side note. Of topic really. But Barnett lost 2 out of 4 to CSU his first 4 years as well didn't he? CSU is not the gimme game is use to be. That is not just because of CU's decline. As much as we hate it. Sonny did some good things up at CSU and Fairchild looks like a good hire who is going to keep that program moving forward.

Losing to CSU happens. But CU should never be dominated by CSU like they were on Sunday. Never.

 

[Buffarino]

BTW, Chilly, I'm not calling for Hawk's head yet. But he better turn things around real quick. Like Friday quick. A loss to Toledo and I'm done with him.

 

[Chilly]

We are not getting better

The high point of this program was last year. We started up with a solid win against a CSU team in its first game under a new coach. We followed that up with a nail biter we probably should have lost against D2 Eastern Washington. Then, we beat a struggling West Virginia team that had been handled by East Carolina due in large part to game mismanagement by the WVU coaching staff.

Once again, this was the high point.

From there, we have lost 8 out of 10 games with our only wins being at home against terrible Iowa State and Kansas State teams. (Edit: It can be argued that we should have lost those. In fact, go to their message boards and those fans talk about their CU game being bad luck like we do about last year's Nebraska game.)

How can anyone say we're getting better?

I don't think you have heard me say that. I have said that, given where we started from, that this program is about were I would expect it to be after 3 years. Based on that I am not willing to make a judgment about improving or getting worse in year 4 until a larger number of games have been played.

 

[Chilly]

BTW, Chilly, I'm not calling for Hawk's head yet. But he better turn things around real quick. Like Friday quick. A loss to Toledo and I'm done with him.

Hey I understand where you are at. I was there at times Sunday. I agree the rope is short.

 

[Chilly]

Losing to CSU happens. But CU should never be dominated by CSU like they were on Sunday. Never.

Oh I agree, but hey as bad as that ass kicking was, it wasn't near as bad as the loss to them in 99.

 

[Darth Snow]

BTW, Chilly, I'm not calling for Hawk's head yet. But he better turn things around real quick. Like Friday quick. A loss to Toledo and I'm done with him.

:stupid:

****ing football season, it brings all of us together.

2 and 8, 2 and 8, 2 and 8. A LUCKY TWO AND ****ING EIGHT.

 

[Buffnik]

I agree the CSU loss doesn't look good, But I also understand that we have game coming up this Friday and CSU is 1 game so far. If you thought Hawkins was the right coach for CU after the season last year, then I think we should look past this CSU game and see what happens next.

Just as a side note. Of topic really. But Barnett lost 2 out of 4 to CSU his first 4 years as well didn't he? CSU is not the gimme game is use to be. That is not just because of CU's decline. As much as we hate it. Sonny did some good things up at CSU and Fairchild looks like a good hire who is going to keep that program moving forward.

I shouldn't have given the impression that I thought Hawkins was the right guy for the job after last year. I thought he had been the right guy to get us past the scandal & team quitting on Barnett, repair relations with the community, repair relations with faculty, reach out to the HS football coaches in Colorado, run a clean program, and get us to the point where we could simply focus on wins and losses again.

He successfully did that his first 3 years, so I was willing to give him a pass on the 2-7 finish to last season and his unwillingness to fire any assistant coaches after that disaster. What I saw on Sunday was a program in disarray, a team that plays soft, and a head coach unwilling to even fight for his players by getting in a ref's grill after Scotty has his head nearly taken off. CSU's defensive coordinator called us pvssies after the game and the worst part about it is that it's hard to argue. I frankly don't understand how anyone could still support Hawkins at this point.

Chilly, this is an intervention, you are in an abusive relationship, you don't know him better than I do, he's not going to change, and all the sweet talk in the world isn't going to change the fact that you have a black eye and a busted lip. Get out. You deserve better.


==========

To your aside and for the record, I'm not a Barnett guy. I believe that CSU has had a significant coaching advantage over CU since Mac decided to leave coaching to pursue his dream of using magic to get guys to be better dads.

 

[SanDiegoBuff]

Just a different perspective to play devils advocate:

Aug. 31, 2008 Colorado State (FSN) W 38-17
-Wow, they did look good against CSU here.

Sept. 6, 2008 E. Washington W 31-24
-Overlooked EWU... came away with a victory thanks to defensive touchdowns. Offense was not prepared. A win is a win, but you can't look at this one objectively and say they came out and beat a 1-AA team because they were prepared and executed.

Sept. 18, 2008 West Virginia (ESPN) W 17-14
-14 points in the first 2? minutes. WVU adjusts and shuts down offense, defense keeps CU in the game. WVU MISSED a FG to win the game.

Sept. 27, 2008 at Florida State (ABC) L 39-21
-Typical Hawkins road performance. Not prepared to play, lack of execution leaves what was actually a winnable road game as a loss.

Oct. 4, 2008 Texas (FSN) L 38-14
-No question this is an L

Oct. 11, 2008 at Kansas (ESPN2) L 30-14
-Same story as FSU, CU SHOULD lose this game, but again, KU left it open, lack of execution left it on the table.

Oct. 18, 2008 Kansas State (FSN-RM) W 14-13
-One point win at HOME against a team of "comparable talent" isn't anything to hang your hat on.

Oct. 25, 2008 at Missouri (FSN) L 58-0 4-4
-Ranked or not, second consecutive dismantling. No excuse for the magnitude of this loss.

Nov. 1, 2008 at Texas A&M L 24-17 4-5
-Tough loss to a team on the rise, again, SHOULD have been a win but execution throws it into the loss column.

Nov. 8, 2008 Iowa State (Versus) W 28-24
-Wins a game the should win at home.... thanks to a goal line stand. Don't kid yourself and remember this as winning handily.

Nov. 15, 2008 OK State (ABC) L 30-17
-Loss here should be expected.

Nov. 28, 2008 at Nebraska L 40-31
-Best performance of last season.

You can easily look at that schedule and see the sunshine. You can also look at the above schedule and see that, wow, CU is a defensive TD, a missed FG, a 1 point win and a goal line stand against a weak ISU team away from being 0-12.


Sept. 1, 2007 Colorado State (FSN) W 31-28
-Down to the wire, but pull it out.

Sept. 8, 2007 at Arizona State (FSN) L 33-14
-This was a very winnable game, execution and the basics again rear their ugly head. My god, I think the statisticians are still counting the dropped passes and missed blocks in this game.

Sept. 15, 2007 Florida State (ESPN) L 16-6
-Again, played them close, but a lack of execution bring the L.

Sept. 22, 2007 Miami-OH W 42-0
-One of the bright spots, where is THIS team 90% of the rest of the time.

Sept. 29, 2007 Oklahoma (FSN) W 27-24
-Rise up and win a game they should have lost. GREAT win.

Oct. 6, 2007 at Baylor W 43-23
-Beats a team on the road that he should have beat.

Oct. 13, 2007 at Kansas State (ESPN2) L 47-20
-Smacked in the mouth on the road. Team wasn't prepared and didn't execute. Just plain outplayed by a team with equal talent.

Oct. 20, 2007 Kansas (ESPN) L 19-14
-tough game against a top 20 team.

Oct. 27, 2007 at Texas Tech (ABC) W 31-26
-Great road win, still against TTU though, who at this point was still inconsistent from game to game.

Nov. 3, 2007 Missouri (FSN) L 55-10
-Bad loss to a top 10 team. No suprises here. The total dismantling speaks to the inability of the coaches to prepare the team.

Nov. 10, 2007 at Iowa State L 31-28
-This game was a microcosm of everything wrong with the coaches.

Nov. 23, 2007 Nebraska (ABC) W 65-51
-Beats NU at home. What more do we want? Everybody put up 65 on Nebraska that year, and most of them didn't give up 50.

Dec. 30, 2007 Alabama L 30-24
-Poor first half, and just not enough in the tank to pull it out. Again, came out poorly and couldn't make up for it. Speaks to the coaching.


Overall, a few bright spots and a few dark spots. What is telling, is that the bright spots were bright, but so many of the dark spots had a chance to be bright. The team either came out slow, or didn't execute. How many times have we heard Hawk say "One play here or there"

So many of those losses could have turned into wins with EXECUTION. In many of those losses, CU wasn't out talented, thhey werent out executed, they just shot themselves in the foot. It wasn't one game, or two, every game this team makes the same mistakes.

If you look back, the story is always the same, failure to execute. Last year it was injuries. Two years ago it was youth and inexperience. Against CSU, both of those excuses were shot, but we saw the same crap. In most of the games above, up to and including the CSU game, the defense held things together. I HAVE to believe that's largely due to Cabral who has proven his ability to coach and lead.

OK the D-Line is young an inexperienced. That's on the coaches for not recruiting the talent they need. And really? Bandison either won't, or doesn't know how to teach stunts, swim moves or anything other than bull rushing.

OK, the O-Line is young and inexperienced. BS, most of the O-Line has plenty of starting experience from last season and have been together for at least a year.

OK, the O-Line has a new coach. I can't imagine Denver Johnson came in and changed things up so much that the linemen just plain don't know how to block. CSU wasn't running complicated stunts and blitzes, the O-Line just got beat. That's on the coaches. From either a talent or a scheme perspective.

This team hasn't tackled well at all since Hawk got here, that's coaching.

The secondary, CUs purported strength, was exposed by a QB with zero experience.

OK, Hawkins put in Hansen to try something new, it shows he was adapting. No, no it doesn't. Hansen was never given the opportunity to succeed between not being given the playbook, defenses knowing the Hansen was going to run 90% of the time, and having to alter series with Cody.

OK, Scott was held out because CU was playing from behind and he was dinged up. Complete lie by Hawkins. Hagan has said there was nothing wrong with Scott, as his KRs also show. Additionally, the team was down 14 with a HALF to play and the defense was stepping up and shutting down CSU. There's no reason to panick and get away from the gameplan there.

OK, Cody's a bad QB. In the right situation, I think Cody would be a fine QB. It's obvious he can't throw accurately on the run though, and yet, every other play is a roll out. For being a third year QB, he still make a lot of bad decisions, and he's not a dumb kid. His in-game decision making is a result of ineffective coaching. After three years of coaching, that's inexcusable.

OK, the blue collar players that excel in the classroom, or the film room, or at practice, deserve to be rewarded and start and play, even if they aren't the most physically talented. Coaches that continue to focus on workout warriors and ignor game-time ability aren't coaches for long. But we don't know if players like Scott or Simmons, or Hansen, or even J-Fly (before he transferred) excel in game-time situations because they aren't given the chance. In a perfect world, everyone would bring it in practice, and I believe most of the players do, but the players that make a difference bring it to another level when the lights are on.

OK, some players just aren't picking up the system. That is 100% on coaching. If the players aren't picking up the system, it is 100% on bad coaching.

Wins are wins, and Hawkins is basically .500 over the last two years. Maybe he does have what it takes. I hope the light bulb does go off, because coaching changes are a bitch. But when you look at the games, coaching is a major factor in the losses, and even in the wins, it looks more like the players overcome bad coaching, than it looks like Hawkins coaches the players to wins.