OK, I'm going to defend Hawkins and you had better listen

[DBT]

No **** they aren't going to fire him genius!!!! I don't want to go through another coaching search!!!!! I want hawk to back up his Talk and GASP...WIN some games! But yet here you are, year 4, making more excuses for the guy. Accountability is too much I guess.

Hawk is the one who says he recruits nothing but winners and guys with great families,good genes, great smiles. How could we lose any of them? Your the same guy who probably bashed barney for this same crap but you give hawk a free pass.

Genius? Really? Why, thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[buffsyko]

Genius? Really? Why, thanks! :thumbsup:

Yes DTB, I was dead serious...

 

[MtnBuff]

The youth excuse is getting old with me, especially when I look at teams all across the country playing their freshmen & sophomores. And the big schools, too. Take, for instance, USC who is playing a true ****ing freshman at QB! Jesus ****, that's nearly unheard-of, especially at a factory like SC. But Carroll saw he was the guy and plays him. The wide receiver from Toledo who ****ing scorched us was a true freshman. The KR for Michigan who scored the TD on the kick return is a true freshman.

As has been noted on many other threads, Hawkins system has always been to play those who practice the hardest, not those who have the talent. That's great for peewee & high school ball (and potentially even at small college ball), but definitely not for Division I football.

Put the ****ing talent on the field.

Understand what you are saying, I am frustrated as well. At the same time USC has a FR QB starting behind how many O-linemen who are FR/Soph. USC has how many FR/Soph starting on their D. Same questions for Texas, Florida, Bama, Penn State or the rest of the top ranked teams. It is easier to fit a FR or two in when they are surrounded by maturity and experience.

On the other hand this idea of playing the guys who are the most self-motivated (or look like it) is a pile of ****. Coaches job is to play the best players and figure out how to motivate them. Hawk could get away with that stupidity when he was playing against Louisiana Tech and San Jose State but when you are a Big XII school with a target on your back you aren't going to outhustle the less prominent programs they are going to come after you with everything they have. Your only consistent answer is play your players who are better than their players and get them motivated so that their superior skills will win the game.

I am as big a proponent of a solid walk-on program as there is on this board but I believe in it as a source of filling holes in the depth chart, having a solid scout team to work in practice, and occasionally find a diamond in the rough. It is not a way to fill out a starting line-up. There is a reason most of these guys were not recruited by other D1 schools.

 

[Buffnik]

Understand what you are saying, I am frustrated as well. At the same time USC has a FR QB starting behind how many O-linemen who are FR/Soph. USC has how many FR/Soph starting on their D. Same questions for Texas, Florida, Bama, Penn State or the rest of the top ranked teams. It is easier to fit a FR or two in when they are surrounded by maturity and experience.

On the other hand this idea of playing the guys who are the most self-motivated (or look like it) is a pile of ****. Coaches job is to play the best players and figure out how to motivate them. Hawk could get away with that stupidity when he was playing against Louisiana Tech and San Jose State but when you are a Big XII school with a target on your back you aren't going to outhustle the less prominent programs they are going to come after you with everything they have. Your only consistent answer is play your players who are better than their players and get them motivated so that their superior skills will win the game.

I am as big a proponent of a solid walk-on program as there is on this board but I believe in it as a source of filling holes in the depth chart, having a solid scout team to work in practice, and occasionally find a diamond in the rough. It is not a way to fill out a starting line-up. There is a reason most of these guys were not recruited by other D1 schools.

I 100% agree with everything you posted. :thumbsup:

 

[77buff]

I evaluated his recruiting classes from '06 to '09. That is 4 classes, for you dumb****s that thougt it was three. Also, you have to remember that he inherited the classes preceding him which were the ones effected by the dumb assed recruitiing restrictions that Bitsy forced on GB. (Why GB played along, I'll never know.)

Anyway, here it is:

2006 had 22 recruits. The class averaged 2.64 of those dumbassed stars you dip ****s care about. But at least it is a way to compare. Of the 22 recruits from that class, 10 are still in the program. 8 Jrs. and 2 Srs. Remember, Dan had 5 or 6 weeks to pull this class together.

2007 he had 26 recruits. The class averaged 2.77 stars. Of THAT class, 15 are still in the program and every ****ing one is listed as a sophomore.

2008 had 21 recruits. The class averaged a whopping 3.24 stars! So, of that class, there is one senior, 10 freshmen and 6 sophomores! Not one single Jr.

Now, this years class. 2009. The class average dropped to 2.70. Not good. Of this class, there are 16 fresmen and one junior, Andre Simmons.

So, of all Hawk's classes combined, there are, at this very moment, 26 freshmen, 21 sophs, 9 juniors and 3 seniors. A whopping 29 of the kids are no longer in the program for various reasons.

3 seniors you dumb ****s! 9 Juniors! Of Hawk's first 4 recruiting classes, 1/3 have left and way over half are FR./SO.

My point is that it takes a helluva lot more than 4 years to build a program. Add to that the fact that GB's last couple of classes were hurt by restrictions and Hawk's first couple of classes were hurt by perception, and you have a really good explaination of where we are. The scandal killed this program. Don't forget that Diante Jackson wanted, with all his heart, to come to CU and his mom and grandma wouldn't let him because of their bias.

And now, a million of you dumb****s are ripping the program and Hawkins apart all over the internet. Sheesh! I'm exasporated. You people, instead of helping Hawkins out, are helping schools like 'braska bury us. Way to go.

Here's the deal - those star ratings that you say don't mean anything - do, if you take the big dogs - the Texas, Bama, USC, OU, LSU, Florida, Ohio State - year in and year out they are rated in the Top 10 in recruiting. So yes, the star ratings do mean alot. Something alot of younger CU fans don't remember, or don't know is that when coach Mac was producing his best teams, he had very highly ranked recruiting classes. He used to sign alot of the best players from California, Texas, and Louisiana. Juicebox can't recruit worth a ****, and he can't keep his best recruits once he gets them - JFly.

 

[Waldo]

Nice rant

Why can't they tackle, catch, or stop taking penalties ?

Preparation has nothing to do with talent level or recruiting.

It about the coaching or the lack thereof.

Bingo!

So what if you have decent talent, if you can get your team ready to play all the stars in the universe won't translate to W's

 

[JimmyBuff]

Classic thread.. Love the fight among the Buff fans. :smile2:


Good work DBT in the research. While I'm not excusing Hawk, its obvious there isn't enough talent in the program when 1/3 of Hawk's recruits for whatever reasons are not still in the program.


And as Boulder Buff said, its mind-boggling why the staff is not oversigning players every year. You have to plan that players are going to leave, get hurt, flunk out, etc ever year. Hawk and company have not properly planned for situations like that. And its on them.

 

[DBT]

Here's the deal - those star ratings that you say don't mean anything - do, if you take the big dogs - the Texas, Bama, USC, OU, LSU, Florida, Ohio State - year in and year out they are rated in the Top 10 in recruiting. So yes, the star ratings do mean alot. Something alot of younger CU fans don't remember, or don't know is that when coach Mac was producing his best teams, he had very highly ranked recruiting classes. He used to sign alot of the best players from California, Texas, and Louisiana. Juicebox can't recruit worth a ****, and he can't keep his best recruits once he gets them - JFly.

First, where the hell did I say "star rating" doesn't mean anything? Are you kidding? I'd take a class of 5 stars over a class of 2 stars any day of the week!

Second, JFly was one of the least committed guys on the team. He refused to work hard. Gimme a break on JFly. He thinks he is a hip hop star. Like Kanye West.

 

[DBT]

Hawk is guilty of overating his players. Thinking his young guys were ready to turn the corner. That is why he said the 10 game thing. But I think he said that to motivate his kdis, not send a message to the fans. So, many fans are now ripping him for overating a bunch of freshmen and sophomores. Great. But I think most of you guys that are ripping the program are guilty of the same ****ing thing...overating. I know I was. But now that I've taken an objective look, I realize that I was an idot for thinking these kids would be quite ready yet. My HOPE is that they soon will be. At the same time, Hawk needs to get real about what he has and what the need from the staff to get better.

 

[77buff]

I evaluated his recruiting classes from '06 to '09. That is 4 classes, for you dumb****s that thougt it was three. Also, you have to remember that he inherited the classes preceding him which were the ones effected by the dumb assed recruitiing restrictions that Bitsy forced on GB. (Why GB played along, I'll never know.)
Anyway, here it is:
2006 had 22 recruits. The class averaged 2.64 of those dumbassed stars you dip ****s care about. But at least it is a way to compare. Of the 22 recruits from that class, 10 are still in the program. 8 Jrs. and 2 Srs. Remember, Dan had 5 or 6 weeks to pull this class together.


Dumbassed stars you dip $hits care about. Remember making this post?
As for JFly, he had discussions with the coaches when he was recruited.
I guess somebody misjudged his character? Your'e right about JFly, he's a big time head case.

 

[DBT]

I evaluated his recruiting classes from '06 to '09. That is 4 classes, for you dumb****s that thougt it was three. Also, you have to remember that he inherited the classes preceding him which were the ones effected by the dumb assed recruitiing restrictions that Bitsy forced on GB. (Why GB played along, I'll never know.)
Anyway, here it is:
2006 had 22 recruits. The class averaged 2.64 of those dumbassed stars you dip ****s care about. But at least it is a way to compare. Of the 22 recruits from that class, 10 are still in the program. 8 Jrs. and 2 Srs. Remember, Dan had 5 or 6 weeks to pull this class together.


Dumbassed stars you dip $hits care about. Remember making this post?
As for JFly, he had discussions with the coaches when he was recruited.
I guess somebody misjudged his character? Your'e right about JFly, he's a big time head case.

Dude, I was joking there. I should have used the :lol: emoticon or something. Sorry if I offended you. :wink2:

 

[buffsyko]

Hawk is guilty of overating his players. Thinking his young guys were ready to turn the corner. That is why he said the 10 game thing. But I think he said that to motivate his kdis, not send a message to the fans. So, many fans are now ripping him for overating a bunch of freshmen and sophomores. Great. But I think most of you guys that are ripping the program are guilty of the same ****ing thing...overating. I know I was. But now that I've taken an objective look, I realize that I was an idot for thinking these kids would be quite ready yet. My HOPE is that they soon will be. At the same time, Hawk needs to get real about what he has and what the need from the staff to get better.

We are ripping hawk, not the program. Play your best players, his boise thing isn't working.I hope like hell our players go out and win saturday and get some confidence back. Hawk has killed any confidence that this will happen. I don't believe anything he says anymore.

So, when can fans expect a winning season? 09? 2010? Correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying we don't have enough talent in year 4 of hawk's tenure to expect a winning season? That's insane imho and any other programs fans would be just as frustrated and angry with their coach.

 

[BuffMania]

I evaluated his recruiting classes from '06 to '09. That is 4 classes, for you dumb****s that thougt it was three. Also, you have to remember that he inherited the classes preceding him which were the ones effected by the dumb assed recruitiing restrictions that Bitsy forced on GB. (Why GB played along, I'll never know.)

Anyway, here it is:

2006 had 22 recruits. The class averaged 2.64 of those dumbassed stars you dip ****s care about. But at least it is a way to compare. Of the 22 recruits from that class, 10 are still in the program. 8 Jrs. and 2 Srs. Remember, Dan had 5 or 6 weeks to pull this class together.

2007 he had 26 recruits. The class averaged 2.77 stars. Of THAT class, 15 are still in the program and every ****ing one is listed as a sophomore.

2008 had 21 recruits. The class averaged a whopping 3.24 stars! So, of that class, there is one senior, 10 freshmen and 6 sophomores! Not one single Jr.

Now, this years class. 2009. The class average dropped to 2.70. Not good. Of this class, there are 16 fresmen and one junior, Andre Simmons.

So, of all Hawk's classes combined, there are, at this very moment, 26 freshmen, 21 sophs, 9 juniors and 3 seniors. A whopping 29 of the kids are no longer in the program for various reasons.

3 seniors you dumb ****s! 9 Juniors! Of Hawk's first 4 recruiting classes, 1/3 have left and way over half are FR./SO.

My point is that it takes a helluva lot more than 4 years to build a program. Add to that the fact that GB's last couple of classes were hurt by restrictions and Hawk's first couple of classes were hurt by perception, and you have a really good explaination of where we are. The scandal killed this program. Don't forget that Diante Jackson wanted, with all his heart, to come to CU and his mom and grandma wouldn't let him because of their bias.

And now, a million of you dumb****s are ripping the program and Hawkins apart all over the internet. Sheesh! I'm exasporated. You people, instead of helping Hawkins out, are helping schools like 'braska bury us. Way to go.

Okay, DBT, so taking ALL of this into consideration, what were YOUR preseason expectations of the Buffs?

Inquiring minds want to know...........

 

[DukeCityBuff]

I evaluated his recruiting classes from '06 to '09. That is 4 classes, for you dumb****s that thougt it was three. Also, you have to remember that he inherited the classes preceding him which were the ones effected by the dumb assed recruitiing restrictions that Bitsy forced on GB. (Why GB played along, I'll never know.)

Anyway, here it is:

2006 had 22 recruits. The class averaged 2.64 of those dumbassed stars you dip ****s care about. But at least it is a way to compare. Of the 22 recruits from that class, 10 are still in the program. 8 Jrs. and 2 Srs. Remember, Dan had 5 or 6 weeks to pull this class together.

2007 he had 26 recruits. The class averaged 2.77 stars. Of THAT class, 15 are still in the program and every ****ing one is listed as a sophomore.

2008 had 21 recruits. The class averaged a whopping 3.24 stars! So, of that class, there is one senior, 10 freshmen and 6 sophomores! Not one single Jr.

Now, this years class. 2009. The class average dropped to 2.70. Not good. Of this class, there are 16 fresmen and one junior, Andre Simmons.

So, of all Hawk's classes combined, there are, at this very moment, 26 freshmen, 21 sophs, 9 juniors and 3 seniors. A whopping 29 of the kids are no longer in the program for various reasons.

3 seniors you dumb ****s! 9 Juniors! Of Hawk's first 4 recruiting classes, 1/3 have left and way over half are FR./SO.

My point is that it takes a helluva lot more than 4 years to build a program. Add to that the fact that GB's last couple of classes were hurt by restrictions and Hawk's first couple of classes were hurt by perception, and you have a really good explaination of where we are. The scandal killed this program. Don't forget that Diante Jackson wanted, with all his heart, to come to CU and his mom and grandma wouldn't let him because of their bias.

And now, a million of you dumb****s are ripping the program and Hawkins apart all over the internet. Sheesh! I'm exasporated. You people, instead of helping Hawkins out, are helping schools like 'braska bury us. Way to go.

But what about the walk ons?:thumbsup:

 

[buffaloed]

I can understand that Hawk is working on getting the program turned around, but to look clueless coaching against CSU and Toledo has me the most frustrated. It's one thing to look out gunned against UT or Oklahoma, but doing so against run of the mill non-BCS teams another story. I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope this season can be turned around, but that's fading fast.

 

[snakeyman]

I cannot defend Hawks "game day" coaching, for sure. Or his assistants. I'm just saying that coming in with 3 years of recruiting restrictions behind him and only 4 years, 3 really, to rebuild the talent in the program is pretty daunting.

especially when you're trying to compete at a relatively elite level like the Big XII

 

[DBT]

Okay, DBT, so taking ALL of this into consideration, what were YOUR preseason expectations of the Buffs?

Inquiring minds want to know...........

Listen, I expected way better. I'm as bummed as anyone. But given the state of things, I decided to do a little fact finding to try to figure out why we are what we are. Honestly, before the season, I didn't really consider our youthfulness enough. So, I decided to see exactly how young we are. That is why I did the research. I think a lot of folks had the perception that since Hawk had been here for 4 years that we had more experience in the Sr. and Jr. classes. What I found was that the majority of Hawk's recruits are still Fr. and Sophs.

I thought we would win around 8 games, to answer your question.

 

[4DemBuffs]

you are all a bunch of damn idots.

cheating. that is the answer. when CU starts cheating, CU will start winning. pretty friggin simple.

 

[leftybuff]

you are all a bunch of damn idots.

cheating. that is the answer. when CU starts cheating, CU will start winning. pretty friggin simple.

:rofl2:

 

[77buff]

I can understand that Hawk is working on getting the program turned around, but to look clueless coaching against CSU and Toledo has me the most frustrated. It's one thing to look out gunned against UT or Oklahoma, but doing so against run of the mill non-BCS teams another story. I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope this season can be turned around, but that's fading fast.

Make that run of the mill Mid Majors. This season is already over - don't fool yourself. Oh yea, we are gonna get this thing turned around and go to a bowl. Keep drinking the Hawk koolaid - there's always more. As a matter of fact - another 4 year supply right now. The #1 thing CU should be working on now is how to get rid of Juicebox.

Move over JFly, the Juicebox is here!

 

[GoBuffs08]

There is no excuse for not beating a team picked to finish bottom half of the MWCat home.

There is no excuse for not beating a team that finished at the bottom of the MAC last year.

CU was not even close in either of these games. Not only did we get killed, Toledo made us look like a a little league team. Look back at Toledo's recruits over the last three years. I bet the average a lower star rating that CU.

Young players, no senior leadership blah blah blah works when they are getting beat by UT, OSU, or whatever other Big XII team.

Big XII team should never lose to a crappy MWC and MAC team.

You don't need seniors on the team to have team speed. Toledo showed CU has zero team speed. You don't need seniors on the team to know that a two man rush on 3 & 10 is a poor defensive play call. You don't need seniors on the team to play with emotion or a sense of urgency during the CSU game in the second half.

Hawk has done a poor job recruiting needs. Before the start of the year everyone on the this board was wondering about D Line and WR. Two areas Hawk has done crap at.

Two games into the season and we have a midgit walk on WR starting. I hear CU campus police have arrested several students impersonating D linemen.

"10 Wins-No Excuses" That was the crap we were told before the season started. Two games into the year that looks like we might win 2 games and all we get is Fing excuses.

 

[NashBuff]

Let me remind you that Big Mac asked CU fans to give Hawk three years to turn things around. CU fans in general obliged for the 2006, 2007, and 2008 season. Now we are past that three year mark, it's time to get serious with Hawk.

 

[Buffnik]

I think a lot of folks had the perception that since Hawk had been here for 4 years that we had more experience in the Sr. and Jr. classes. What I found was that the majority of Hawk's recruits are still Fr. and Sophs.

Very true, but they're also redshirt freshmen and sophs that have been in the program for 2 or 3 years. We also have 12 4th year juniors and 2 4th year seniors (Chap & Drescher) from Hawk's first class. No way would I argue that this team isn't young, but it's not lose-to-CSU-and-Toledo young. The big issue, imho, is that we play younger than we are because the coaches have switched the offense and defense every year on these kids and also over-complicated things with all of these personnel groupings.

Edit: And if that didn't convince you...

 

[Hugegroove]

I understand completely what you are saying. Especially when considering the play of our offensive and defensive lines. They are really young.

There have been loads of injuries on top of all that too.

But there are two things that I don't like:

"29 of the kids are no longer in the program for various reasons"

-Is a big problem, IMO. Every single one of those scholarships offered to those players is opportunity lost. I know that the 2006 class was a rush job, but all those offers in 2007 and 2008 to players that had little chance of being eligible are part of the blame on "Hawk love". I know that every once in a while you get a kid like Mohler, but limit your exposure to those types of players to 1 or 2 a cycle not 3-5. And all the players that left that were experienced is really hurting us, but that didn't happen in a vaccuum. Sure, every team has attrition but we have seen over half a dozen quality players transfer out of CU with only two (McKnight and Toney Clemons) coming our direction.

The other issue is that of all those stars you talked about many of them are not getting on the field. Yes they are young, but so are the walkons that are being played in front of them.

But the biggest issue is that knowing all of the above, and everything that you posted, why in the world is he PROMISING 10 WINS! Why is he putting so much pressure on his own VERY YOUNG team?

-I have taken a step back since the Toledo anger and re-assessed my own expectations and we really do look like we will field a better team... in 2010. Most of our players will have that much more experience and we should be able to add the word "depth" next to our "chart".

However, all of that assumes that Hawkins and Co. are going to make these players better and better as time passes. While the evidence so far is that players seem lost, out of position, slow, and unprepared: the exact opposite of being coached up.

I could give a **** about Nebraska fans and others perceptions. I always will be a loyal Buff fan and support our program, but being a Patriot means we have the right to question when things aren't going good.

But I really do appreciate your pointing out our main issue, it really can't be ignored that youth and inexperience is hurting our chances right now.

Nice anaolgy! But I think the 10 wins no excuses is what continues to rub most of us the wrong way. Hawkins most recent kool aid where he mentions; What happened to the NY Giants when they went 0-2 to start there season two years ago, but wound up winning the SB. Is just another glass of kool aid.

 

[DBT]

Let me remind you that Big Mac asked CU fans to give Hawk three years to turn things around. CU fans in general obliged for the 2006, 2007, and 2008 season. Now we are past that three year mark, it's time to get serious with Hawk.

Let me remind you that Mac, three weeks ago, said this program is about to take off.

Now, I love Mac, but maybe he is wrong. Who the **** knows (sorry for cussing, Mac). But the point is that we don't have much choice but to wait and see and hope and pray.

 

[buffsyko]

Let me remind you that Mac, three weeks ago, said this program is about to take off.

Now, I love Mac, but maybe he is wrong. Who the **** knows (sorry for cussing, Mac). But the point is that we don't have much choice but to wait and see and hope and pray.

Should we eat our vitamins and drink herbal tea too?

Mac said the program was going to take off at the last two recruiting luncheons. Mac is awesome but it doesn't matter.

 

[Gateway]

Should we eat our vitamins and drink herbal tea too?

Mac said the program was going to take off at the last two recruiting luncheons. Mac is awesome but it doesn't matter.

If all that CU has is Mac after all these years...well, damn...then CU is in trouble.

Hey Mac...either get off the pot or shut up!

From someone that is not a Mac luver because I wasn't here then.

 

[Idot Buff]

Should we eat our vitamins and drink herbal tea too?

Mac said the program was going to take off at the last two recruiting luncheons. Mac is awesome but it doesn't matter.

Exactly....Mac is a non-entity now. He had the program rocking in 1994, and he stepped away. I respect his decision to leave, but who cares what he thinks? He is not in tune with today's college football scene.

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Exactly....Mac is a non-entity now. He had the program rocking in 1994, and he stepped away. I respect his decision to leave, but who cares what he thinks? He is not in tune with today's college football scene.

Wow. :lol::thumbsup:

 

[Idot Buff]

Wow. :lol::thumbsup:

You disagree? A lot has changed in 15 years.