OL recruiting issues..

[JRK1212]

BB

What exactly is your point

His point is that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You lost all credibility when you stated that "TE is not a need for this class." Litterally the dumbest thing i've read on here and every subsequent post since then has just convinced me of your stupidity even more.

 

[bigbang]

His point is that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You lost all credibility when you stated that "TE is not a need for this class." Litterally the dumbest thing i've read on here and every subsequent post since then has just convinced me of your stupidity even more.

Thats your opinion, i kind of like Thornton, Slavin, Wood and possibly a JUCO or transfer to come in for the 2012 season. And we can always recruit players that can play early in the TE position. Caleb Smith who is unranked looks good on tape and we just had him in for Junior day, so am not worried about the TE position.

 

[Darth Snow]

Hmmm....

Pulled directly from the Flores recruiting thread: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/58002-12-CO-OT-Arthur-Flores



Or this thread where you like him as the LT for this class: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/58192-12-CA-OG-Jordan-Simmons/page2?highlight=flores



Another thread: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/62517-How-big-a-blow-is-this-week/page3?highlight=flores



From another thread: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread....-have-3-commits-so-far/page2?highlight=flores







Another thread: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread....ng-Scale-for-prospects/page2?highlight=flores



Yet another thread: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/60849-What-is-your-recruiting-wish-list?highlight=flores



How could anyone possibly make a giant leap in logic that you really like Flores as a prospect? But that's okay, because apparently in the last month or two, you found other OL you like a lot more.

I also find it odd that you are suddenly playing up the depth on the current roster, but back in March you were talking about taking as many as 10 OL in this class. Did the spring game sway you that much?

From this thread: http://www.allbuffs.com/showthread.php/58527-12-CA-OG-Stephon-McCray





So if Flores is not a guy you liked, despite plenty of posts that directly contradict that assertion, but we need a lot of OL in this class, can you try to explain it to me again how we should not be at least a little disappointed in OL recruiting thus far?

I was hoping you would pull out the super smackdown on this one bb. :lol:

 

[slider]

Thats your opinion, i kind of like Thornton, Slavin, Wood and possibly a JUCO or transfer to come in for the 2012 season. And we can always recruit players that can play early in the TE position. Caleb Smith who is unranked looks good on tape and we just had him in for Junior day, so am not worried about the TE position.

Please stop

 

[DesertDawg526]

As an outsider I will say that I think CU traditionally has been one of THE top programs in the country at producing OL.

I'm not sure what this recruiting class will bring but I have no doubt Embree will bring this back... it may or may not start this year. But it will definitely happen on Embree's watch.

 

[bigbang]

As an outsider I will say that I think CU traditionally has been one of THE top programs in the country at producing OL.

I'm not sure what this recruiting class will bring but I have no doubt Embree will bring this back... it may or may not start this year. But it will definitely happen on Embree's watch.

Great post, so many doom and gloom folks on this site this days and recruiting is far from over.

 

[JRK1212]

Thats your opinion, i kind of like Thornton, Slavin, Wood and possibly a JUCO or transfer to come in for the 2012 season. And we can always recruit players that can play early in the TE position. Caleb Smith who is unranked looks good on tape and we just had him in for Junior day, so am not worried about the TE position.

NM

Personal attack. - Buffnik

 

[bigbang]

NM

Edited- didn't want to derail this thread

 

[JRK1212]

NM

NM

 

[bigbang]

NM

NM

 

[MtnBuff]

Is it to late to nominate this thread for the Stoudt's it has definite potential?

 

[buffsyko]

I thought I was on netbuffs for a second....

 

[Duff Man]

Great post, so many doom and gloom folks on this site this days and recruiting is far from over.

I am far from doom and gloom. In fact, I would argue I have higher expectations for this class than most posters, mostly because I have supreme confidence in this staff's recruiting ability.

That does not mean they get a complete and total pass until February. You are free to think that everything is just fine in terms of OL recruiting, but it does mean it is true.

And finally, when you make posts like you have about TE recruiting, you better realize it comes off as extremely myopic. Recuits have said Embree is telling them he wants 2-3 TEs in this class, but you think it is okay if we might end up with Baylis because you like a potential depth chart of Thornton, Slavin, and Wood? One raw TE more in the mold of a big WR at the moment and two guys who have never played a college snap, in a pro-style offense no less? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

 

[buffsyko]

I am far from doom and gloom. In fact, I would argue I have higher expectations for this class than most posters, mostly because I have supreme confidence in this staff's recruiting ability.

That does not mean they get a complete and total pass until February. You are free to think that everything is just fine in terms of OL recruiting, but it does mean it is true.

And finally, when you make posts like you have about TE recruiting, you better realize it comes off as extremely myopic. Recuits have said Embree is telling them he wants 2-3 TEs in this class, but you think it is okay if we might end up with Baylis because you like a potential depth chart of Thornton, Slavin, and Wood? One raw TE more in the mold of a big WR at the moment and two guys who have never played a college snap, in a pro-style offense no less? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

We need 2-3 TE's for sure. The OL recruiting has been sub par. I know CU is down right now but with the talk of how good this staff is at recruiting, you'd think they would be able to pull in at least 1 of the top 4 OL in the state.

 

[Darth Snow]

bigbang = bighomer. Only annoying when he refuses to acknowledge it. So he's always annoying. :lol:

Close to the line. - Buffnik

 

[bigbang]

I am far from doom and gloom. In fact, I would argue I have higher expectations for this class than most posters, mostly because I have supreme confidence in this staff's recruiting ability.

That does not mean they get a complete and total pass until February. You are free to think that everything is just fine in terms of OL recruiting, but it does mean it is true.

And finally, when you make posts like you have about TE recruiting, you better realize it comes off as extremely myopic. Recuits have said Embree is telling them he wants 2-3 TEs in this class, but you think it is okay if we might end up with Baylis because you like a potential depth chart of Thornton, Slavin, and Wood? One raw TE more in the mold of a big WR at the moment and two guys who have never played a college snap, in a pro-style offense no less? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

AT this stage every kid in the recruiting process are prospects at best. We have seen the likes Marquisa highly ranked that turn out to be total burst. We have seen the likes of Mark Ingram a 3star RB 53rd ranked RB turn out to be heisman winner. I believe we can flip Baylis who is a prospect, who i really like, i believe we are going to get some good players before it is all set and done. But if we don't get a recruit straight out of highschool, it is not the end of the world, because you can always get good TE through the JUCO ranks or via the transfer method. There are tons of guys we can get and develop, heck we can get an athlete or a big WR that has good recieving skills that we can develop into a great TE, or you can even convert an undersized OL or DE into a blocking TE . At other positions you can't get away with that, but at the TE positon, there are alot of possiblities. That is why i said it is no big deal at this stage.

 

[JRK1212]

NM

NM

 

[Buffnik]

bigbang,

I'm glad you're confident in what we have. But I don't see playmakers with our depth, just guys who can contribute. You need the contributors and system guys, but playmakers win football games against the better teams. That means OLs who can bury an all-conference DT on a 4th and goal and TEs who can block a good DE, get out on the LBs, and also have the ability to split the seam of the defense and run over CBs that try to tackle him. We need those kind of guys.

Among the in-state recruits, the 4 I really care about are Callahan, Henington, Norgard and Thurston. Baylis was I guy I loved as a developmental 3* type (and still do), but I think he's over-hyped as a 4* prospect. He's a lacrosse player and finesse, split TE who needs to develop the complete package in order to do what we need in our system. I think he can get there, but he's not there yet. Be nice to get him, but it's not time to panic if we don't. Miles is a great QB who I would have loved to get, but we got Dillon and I'm more than happy with how things worked out. Kozan and O'Connor simply aren't the massive OLs that Marshall favors. They would have been nice players and made the local fans happy, but these are not game changers for us if they sign elsewhere. Flores has the size, but his overall athleticism is questionable and I'm not sure he would have ever started at CU. I think O'Connor is #3 among the in-state OLs, but I'm not so sure that Austin Hendrickson from A-West or Nate Shepherd from Sedalia isn't #4. Watch to see how those two perform as seniors.

Anyway, that's how I see the in-state recruiting this cycle.

P.S. Let's lay off the personal attack, please. There's a big difference between arguing and name calling. Let's not cross that line. I'm annoyed that I have to go back and delete posts now.

 

[bigbang]

bigbang,

I'm glad you're confident in what we have. But I don't see playmakers with our depth, just guys who can contribute. You need the contributors and system guys, but playmakers win football games against the better teams. That means OLs who can bury an all-conference DT on a 4th and goal and TEs who can block a good DE, get out on the LBs, and also have the ability to split the seam of the defense and run over CBs that try to tackle him. We need those kind of guys.

Among the in-state recruits, the 4 I really care about are Callahan, Henington, Norgard and Thurston. Baylis was I guy I loved as a developmental 3* type (and still do), but I think he's over-hyped as a 4* prospect. He's a lacrosse player and finesse, split TE who needs to develop the complete package in order to do what we need in our system. I think he can get there, but he's not there yet. Be nice to get him, but it's not time to panic if we don't. Miles is a great QB who I would have loved to get, but we got Dillon and I'm more than happy with how things worked out. Kozan and O'Connor simply aren't the massive OLs that Marshall favors. They would have been nice players and made the local fans happy, but these are not game changers for us if they sign elsewhere. Flores has the size, but his overall athleticism is questionable and I'm not sure he would have ever started at CU. I think O'Connor is #3 among the in-state OLs, but I'm not so sure that Austin Hendrickson from A-West or Nate Shepherd from Sedalia isn't #4. Watch to see how those two perform as seniors.

Anyway, that's how I see the in-state recruiting this cycle.

I wanted Bart Houston or Dillon, so am estactic that we got Dillion. Flores is combo OL he can play Tackle or Guard, guys that are valuable on a football team, i really want him at CU, and he is still growing. He is far from the finished article, with good coaching from Marshall, i believe Flores can surprise alot of people and yet again prove that national rating systems sometimes are bullocks. Baylis is a red zone weapon as a pass catching TE, won't be required to do a lot of blocking. A miss match, the playmaker that we need. Kozan is also still growing but at 295 pounds that is good size for a freshman, smart kid, high character guy that will only get better with good coaching. Williams is another guy i like. Jordan Roos a 2 star rated guy, is probably the guy i like the most among the guys that we are after. I believe we can scout for playmakers from the JUCO ranks and through transfers. Cam Newton, Fairley, Terrance Cody are just a few playmakers that came through the JUCO ranks.

 

[Quattro]

If any name calling is used from here on I will give a official notice of cease and desist and will report you to the law.

I think Auburn will have a pretty mediocre to bad season and we have a good chance to flip Callahan and if we show improvement we could probably flip Thurston as well if he realizes that he can be a part of something special and a smash mouth football team of the old days, especially if Bo Po leaves for OSU which I can now see happening.

 

[Buffnik]

If any name calling is used from here on I will give a official notice of cease and desist and will report you to the law.

I think Auburn will have a pretty mediocre to bad season and we have a good chance to flip Callahan and if we show improvement we could probably flip Thurston as well if he realizes that he can be a part of something special and a smash mouth football team of the old days, especially if Bo Po leaves for OSU which I can now see happening.

I don't think the Nubs would fight too hard to keep him, actually. While they appreciate what he's done to restore their culture and get them winning again, a lot of them are uncomfortable with how he represents the program with his antics and there's some question of whether he's reached his ceiling there with on-field results. It's a very conservative fan base that also expects a top 10 program. Bo's seat is starting to get a little hot and he knows it. He might very well decide to get out while he can get another top job.

 

[MtnBuff]

bigbang,

I'm glad you're confident in what we have. But I don't see playmakers with our depth, just guys who can contribute. You need the contributors and system guys, but playmakers win football games against the better teams. That means OLs who can bury an all-conference DT on a 4th and goal and TEs who can block a good DE, get out on the LBs, and also have the ability to split the seam of the defense and run over CBs that try to tackle him. We need those kind of guys.

Among the in-state recruits, the 4 I really care about are Callahan, Henington, Norgard and Thurston. Baylis was I guy I loved as a developmental 3* type (and still do), but I think he's over-hyped as a 4* prospect. He's a lacrosse player and finesse, split TE who needs to develop the complete package in order to do what we need in our system. I think he can get there, but he's not there yet. Be nice to get him, but it's not time to panic if we don't. Miles is a great QB who I would have loved to get, but we got Dillon and I'm more than happy with how things worked out. Kozan and O'Connor simply aren't the massive OLs that Marshall favors. They would have been nice players and made the local fans happy, but these are not game changers for us if they sign elsewhere. Flores has the size, but his overall athleticism is questionable and I'm not sure he would have ever started at CU. I think O'Connor is #3 among the in-state OLs, but I'm not so sure that Austin Hendrickson from A-West or Nate Shepherd from Sedalia isn't #4. Watch to see how those two perform as seniors.

Anyway, that's how I see the in-state recruiting this cycle.

Good analysis as usual buffnik.

Following recruiting is by nature frustrating because we get excited about things, have high expectations, and are in a hurry to get results. It actually works out that nobody reaches all their expectations and nothing is even kind of final until LOI day, then we have to wait for admissions and the clearinghouse and hope that the recruits don't get stupid and pull a Kotoa on us.

We also have to understand that the coaches aren't allowed to talk about recruits and wouldn't do if they could until they have an LOI. The recruiting services can chime in their opinion. Parents, kids, and HS coaches and groupies can put in information or disinformation but we don't really know the whole story until long after the fact.

These coaches are paid to do this. They know what they want and don't want in kids. Some kids get a courtesy offer because they are in state but are told by the coaches that if they accept the offer they will have an uphill battle at the school. Other kids are asked by coaches to keep things under the radar and not talk. Sometimes this is to not draw attention from other schools, sometimes it is to not look to another recruit that a position is full.

As I stated earlier I hope that the staff can turn at least one of the top in-state O-linemen. If they can't and they don't have anyone in state that they think fits their program then I would hope they go out of state. No sense give a kid a position just because he is from Colorado if he doesn't have a reasonable expectation of fitting the program.

It also makes no sense to dump on a kid just because some recruiting service or services don't know much about him or haven't rated him highly. The recruiting services don't lose their jobs when an evaluation doesn't work out.

It's okay to get excited or depressed about the class as it stands but remember the staff is still working and will be up until LOI day. Let's give them a chance to do their stuff before we push the panic button.

 

[JRK1212]

P.S. Let's lay off the personal attack, please. There's a big difference between arguing and name calling. Let's not cross that line. I'm annoyed that I have to go back and delete posts now.

 

[JRK1212]

Kozan and O'Connor simply aren't the massive OLs that Marshall favors. They would have been nice players and made the local fans happy, but these are not game changers for us if they sign elsewhere.

I'm no talent scout but based on their high ratings and large offer sheets I don't see how there not very good players who could help us. I've read that the staff hasin't recruted either very hard which just doesn't make sense to me. And if Marshall wants big guys thats fine but their both 6'4 and over 280 lbs before their senior year in HS, that sounds pretty big to me. And it's not like Kough is very big.

 

[Quattro]

I'm no talent scout but based on their high ratings and large offer sheets I don't see how there not very good players who could help us. I've read that the staff hasin't recruted either very hard which just doesn't make sense to me. And if Marshall wants big guys thats fine but their both 6'4 and over 280 lbs before their senior year in HS, that sounds pretty big to me. And it's not like Kough is very big.

NM

 

[Buffnik]

I'm no talent scout but based on their high ratings and large offer sheets I don't see how there not very good players who could help us. I've read that the staff hasin't recruted either very hard which just doesn't make sense to me. And if Marshall wants big guys thats fine but their both 6'4 and over 280 lbs before their senior year in HS, that sounds pretty big to me. And it's not like Kough is very big.

Kough is 6'5" and still growing. Ideally, Marshall wants 6'6" and taller OLs with long arms and the frames to get absolutely huge. Kough was actually borderline for the size preference. That's why he'll play OG instead of RT at CU. Marshall wants an OL that will intimidate and be able to wear down a defense. That's what I meant by big. Not weight. In fact, OTs built like Solder are much preferred over OTs who are heavier and in the 6'4"-6'5" range. If a guy is that size, Marshall wants him at OG. Centers can be in the 6'3"-6'4" range.

Here are our 2011 freshmen:

OT Marc Mustoe - 6'7"
OT Alex Lewis - 6'6"
OG Paulay Asiata - 6'5"
C - Brad Cotner - 6'4"
C - Alex Kelley - 6'3"

Munyer's 6'3" and they moved him from Guard to Center.

I'm not really arguing, just pointing out the philosophy and the fact that our coaching staff is very focused on recruiting to their system versus the scattergun approach of the recent past where they'd just try to get the best player they could find and plug them in. One notable exception to that past was Brown's CB recruiting (likes big CBs for the outside and a smaller, quick guy he can use to cover the slot when the matchup calls for it). It's very much an NFL approach.

 

[JRK1212]

NM

NM

 

[JRK1212]

Kough is 6'5" and still growing. Ideally, Marshall wants 6'6" and taller OLs with long arms and the frames to get absolutely huge. Kough was actually borderline for the size preference. That's why he'll play OG instead of RT at CU. Marshall wants an OL that will intimidate and be able to wear down a defense. That's what I meant by big. Not weight. In fact, OTs built like Solder are much preferred over OTs who are heavier and in the 6'4"-6'5" range. If a guy is that size, Marshall wants him at OG. Centers can be in the 6'3"-6'4" range.

I'm not really arguing, just pointing out the philosophy and the fact that our coaching staff is very focused on recruiting to their system versus the scattergun approach of the recent past where they'd just try to get the best player they could find and plug them in. One notable exception to that past was Brown's CB recruiting (likes big CBs for the outside and a smaller, quick guy he can use to cover the slot when the matchup calls for it). It's very much an NFL approach.

The irony is that Marshall was on the Cal sideline last year when their small/quick pass rushers dominated 6'9 Nate Solder.

I just want guys who are good players, regardles of how tall they are. Reading this just reminds of Josh McDaniels trying too justify questionable draft picks based on the fact that the players "fit his system."

 

[Quattro]

The CU line also did some ball thing that tipped off Cal's D line and let them get a head start. And we're running a complete different system under Embree than we were under Hawkins....if you can call if a system.

 

[JRK1212]

This staff flipped 7 guys from other programs in 6 weeks of recruiting for the 2011 class. About 3 of those 6 weeks were dead period when they couldn't call, visit or host. Have faith.

Different situation though. Last year we were a new option to those players where as in this case they already had has as an option and chose to go somewhere else.

And I count five flipped committments: Nembot, Asiata, Mustoe, Harlos, and Tuumalo. Who are the other two?