I think you are minimizing his achievements.
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Pac 12 Coaching Carousel
- Thread starter Jens1893
- Start date
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
Well, ASU screwed the pooch on this one....apparently JJ and ASU had a deal, they were actually talking buyout with SMU, when ASU's boosters began a mini-revolt. ASU then yanks JJ's offer, killing the deal and leaving a big steaming pile of SunDevil caca in JJ's work environment at SMU. I am sure SMU is really happy with JJ, and other HC's with jobs will be just lining up to talk to Lisa Love and crew after seeing how JJ was handled....
Not today JB, Sorry my man. I'm just gonna disagree with ya.
lawdogg
Club Member
Because 7 wins in a weak conference beats 1-11 in a weak conference. Because he has been able to upgrade the talent level of a team that was still reeling from the death penalty. And because in this day and age, people like wide open offenses, and that is exactly what JJ brings to the table. Agree with you though, this guy isn't an "elite" head coach, but would be a solid hire for ASU.
Please list his achievements at UH and the teams that he beat in route to his 9,10, and 11 win seasons.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
death penalty was 25 years ago. SMU has hired and fired a bunch of incompetent coaches which is why they didn't win anything. June isn't incompetent but he is just mediocre.
In 2005 SMU had 5 wins and in 2006 they had 6 wins before they won 1 game each in the next 2 years. Its not like the program was winning one game a year since the death penalty.
And you talk about June being such an offensive guru. Okay let's look at his scoring offenses at SMU
2008: 21.3
2009: 29.2
2010: 25.7
2011: 25.7
Now let's look at the offense 4 years before he was there
2007: 28.3
2006: 27.1
2005: 20.8
2004: 19.7
Yeah what an offensive genius :lol:
Its amazing how many refuse to look at the facts and just base stuff on the media or reputation. The 71st scoring offense in the country isn't a good wide open offense and he's been there four years which is plenty of time to get your players in there to run the chuck and duck offense that he runs.
You wanna compare Mike Leach's (who was hilariously criticized as a bad hire on these boards this week) offensive stats to what June JOnes has done at SMU? (trust me its not even close). Both known to be offensive gurus in the media (well one is)
After seeing the awfulness of the Hawk regime I'd hope people around here wouldn't be fooled by reputations created by the media. June Jones being a good coach is a myth. Can't do a damn thing at a silly ass conference like Conf USA other than win 7 games. Gimme a break people.
Cool Jimmy. I'm glad you like your opinion so much.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
Crickets, Crickets
Arguments aside...the fact ASU is now reaching to CUSA also rans to find their HC is pretty telling....I think JJ is a pretty good HC. Maybe he isn't the second coming of Urban or Saban, but ASU is digging themselves a hole here. fUCLA, well, they dug a hole too...No Petey, no Golden, no Sumlin, does anybody want the fUCLA job?
You may not realize it (I didn't either), but SMU had not had a single season with more than 6 wins since 1984. June has surpassed that 3 straight seasons after an initial transition year at 1-11.
At Hawaii, he inherited a squad that went 0-12 in 1998 and won 9 games with them in 1999 (last season before the MWC split off). He averaged over 8 wins a year at Hawaii. 75-41 record at Hawaii, a program that was 3 games under .500 for its D1 history prior to him taking over.
He sucks though, right?
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
He doesn't suck but he is mediocre. He did well at Hawaii but he has flopped the big time at SMU. All you got to do is look at the scoring offenses where allegedly he is a "guru" of. They are paying him 2 million dollars and they get 7 wins and a ****** offense out of him? Hey I guess people are impressed with that.
lawdogg
Club Member
So the question you previously posed was why JJ would be compensated at his current rate when he only wins 7 games a year. My response was that his 7 wins trumps 1 win. You illustrate my point even better. After several lousy hires, they finally have someone who isn't lousy, which is why he is generally well received. Although his offenses may not have produced as well, you surely cannot question that his offensively philosophy is to spread the ball around and throw the ball down the field. Not sure what you are basing your opinion on that JJ would be a worse situation for ASU than Erickson, but we are allowed to disagree. I stand by my assertion that although he is not an elite guy, he would be a solid hire for the devils.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
No one was saying Leach was a bad hire. He can definitely bring an entertaining brand and get Wazzu to a bunch of 6-6 seasons and Fight Hunger Bowls. However, some of us were simply pointing out the fact that this myth of Leach as a 10win-a-season coach is ridiculous. He's had a 10 win season exactly once. The guy also doesn't recruit - how's that going to work in Pullman? Lubbock presents its challenges, but it's a lot easier to find/get leftover talent to Lubbock than it will be to Pullman.
:woot: someone did it for me :lol:
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
You are aware that SMU won 5 and 6 games in 2005 and 2006?
lawdogg
Club Member
Math was never my strong suit, but I would venture that 7 wins also trumps 5 or even 6.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's a huge increase. SMU should give him a bonus. :lol:
I sure hope people around here won't be saying Embree is a great coach if he gets to 7-5 every year and state well its better than the Hawk years.
It is getting pretty damn scary the statements I'm seeing. Just wow.
lawdogg
Club Member
Don't know what's so provocative about saying that the guy is a solid, but not elite head coach (that's three times now for you keeping track). Still, if you disagree, that's cool man. No skin off my nose. We obviously want Embree to do much better than that, but if we go 7-5 next year, a lot of folks will probably feel like we are heading in the right direction and probably have the right man for the job.
Worth noting that SMU did not have an easy non-conference schedule over the past four years either. They played TCU every season, @ Texas A&M, @ Texas Tech (twice), and even Washington State in a home and home (not a good program, but still not easy for a C-USA team). Look at Jones' record after that first season and it is 17-7. Pretty good IYAM. Not prepared to say Jones is a coaching god, but he is not a bum either.
CVilleBuff
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to see how Jones would fare in a power conference. Let's face it, if you're going to try and run this offense in a power conference then the Pac-12 is your best bet. ASU has higher expectations, but I think Jones would have won 7-8 games per year in Tempe pretty consistently. He probably would have been a better choice than whatever clown they end up hiring now
He brought Hawaii to a BCS game. Granted, they got killed, but that in itself was quite an accomplishment, IMO. He then went to SMU - a school that has never recovered from the death penalty - and resurrected a moribund program. I'm not going to list the teams he beat, because I really don't care.
In the end, it won't matter, becuase it looks like he's not going to ASU anyway. Their loss. SMU's gain.
BlackNGold
Club Member
What I find interesting is the PAC is getting so many of what I call "system guys" - Rich Rod, Mike Leach, maybe June Jones, My own bias is that I do not really care that much for that approach but these coaches have had success with their systems - I just believe there is a ceiling if you don't emphasize defense.
Junction
Club Member
Do you also consider it "quite an accomplishment" when Boise or TCU makes a BCS game? Because what Hawaii did was no different.
Yes I do.
I consider BSU and TCU to be greater accomplishments since they actually beat the legit BCS teams they play. June Jones beat 2 FCS teams, Rice, Idaho, LA Tech, etc and got torched by Georgia.
I would never argue that a team from the WAC should be playing in a BCS bowl game unless it filled its non-conference schedule with ranked BCS teams and beat them.
That's a different argument, though.
We're talking about June Jones' coaching job. Hawaii's program did not have more resources or a greater ability to attract talented recruits than the other members of the WAC. It wasn't like TCU being based in Dallas. It was a heck of a coaching job to go undefeated there.