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Pac-12 expansion is now inevitable

TSchekler said:
There is zero chance that any Pac 12 expansion would end up being 4 G5 programs that add little to no financial upside. I could see Boise and a tiny sliver of hope for UNLV, given its location, but no shot for NM or SDSU.
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They would not add 4 G5 programs but one or two is a good possibility. SDSU is out because they have very little support in their own market and the PAC12 already has strong support in that TV market. No other conference is coming in there to threaten it so they are out. I would give UNM an equal shot with UNLV. Again Vegas is already PAC territory and UNLV doesn't add to that. If New Mexico could get their act together athletically they could dominate that market and expand the geographical range of the conference.

As hard as Boise has tried I don't think they make it. They are a bad fit academically and don't bring a lot in terms of TV market (although their market is growing fast.) The school itself has been subsidizing the program in a huge way and current financial issues may cause that to stop or slow down. They may be past their peak and coming back down, kind of like Fresno did a few years ago.

An argument has always been that certain schools are tied together and come as a package deal. If the B12 collapses that may very well end when schools are scrambling for new conference affiliations. In that event it may be possible to pick up Oklahoma and Kansas without Okie Lite and KjSU coming along

Agree with what Sacky has said before though. The PAC does not have to expand just because other conferences are doing so. Unless it truly benefits the conference and each of it's members then don't do it. Adding Texas may bring in more money but do they truly benefit the conference, that hasn't happened in their past and current affiliations.
 
Any Pac expansion puts CU back into the side of the conference with whatever Big12 teams and limits our trips to Cali.

Just say no.
 
There are no G5 schools that move the needle and add anything.

What would move the needle is to dump OSU & WSU as they add nothing, and don't fit the Pac12 anymore than CSU.
Then bring in UT, OU, KU, and Nebraska. NU would rejoin their true rival in OU and their non-recognized rival in CU.

That expands us by 4 states, all with historically top teams (KU being in hoops). All are reasonable academic institutions compared to say TCU.
 
So, what you're saying is.... we're ****ed?

Seriously - I don't see any way this works out well for us. Either the Pac doesn't expand and we fall further behind other schools in the nation when we all thought moving to the Pac was going to benefit us tremendously financially, or the Pac does expand and we're stuck with roadies to Norman, Stoolwater, and other assorted ****holes again.

Yay.
 
buffaholic said:
There are no G5 schools that move the needle and add anything.

What would move the needle is to dump OSU & WSU as they add nothing, and don't fit the Pac12 anymore than CSU.
Then bring in UT, OU, KU, and Nebraska. NU would rejoin their true rival in OU and their non-recognized rival in CU.
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I just threw up in my mouth at the very thought of such a scenario.
 
sackman said:
I just threw up in my mouth at the very thought of such a scenario.
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I was thinking we might need to call your cardiologist if it happens.

No the PAC won't be dropping any schools, and the rest of it is no as well.

Nebraska fits the PAC12 like a hippo humping a chicken. They are a Midwestern school, great plains, farm country, etc. They are not AAU and culturally just don't fit. They aren't going to give up millions of $$ a year to go where they aren't wanted.

If/when the B12 falls apart OU and KU could be good possibilities. Texas will again be the reason it happened.

Texas is a much better fit with the ACC, a conference which has already let Notre Dame come in playing with a different set of rules. Texas will never settle for one of a group of equals. They want the LHN, they want to dictate where conference championship games are held as well as conference tournaments. They want to be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

Somebody mentioned TCU earlier. Also not going to happen. The PAC12 is not going to take a religious affiliated institution, they made that clear with Utah instead of BYU and with excluding Baylor from the conversation last time the Texas schools were in play. This also means that Baylor and SMU are out.
 
MtnBuff said:
I was thinking we might need to call your cardiologist if it happens.

No the PAC won't be dropping any schools, and the rest of it is no as well.

Nebraska fits the PAC12 like a hippo humping a chicken. They are a Midwestern school, great plains, farm country, etc. They are not AAU and culturally just don't fit. They aren't going to give up millions of $$ a year to go where they aren't wanted.

If/when the B12 falls apart OU and KU could be good possibilities. Texas will again be the reason it happened.

Texas is a much better fit with the ACC, a conference which has already let Notre Dame come in playing with a different set of rules. Texas will never settle for one of a group of equals. They want the LHN, they want to dictate where conference championship games are held as well as conference tournaments. They want to be able to take a bigger piece of the pie.

Somebody mentioned TCU earlier. Also not going to happen. The PAC12 is not going to take a religious affiliated institution, they made that clear with Utah instead of BYU and with excluding Baylor from the conversation last time the Texas schools were in play. This also means that Baylor and SMU are out.
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BYU's issue is more than just the religious affiliation. They won't play games on Sunday. Obviously doesn't impact football all that much, but it makes scheduling all the other sports a huge pain.
 
Expansion is going to happen whether we like it or not. I would rather the Pac 12 position themselves with relevant Schools and huge markets than sitting on the sideline. I don't want Texas like the next guy, but the Pac 12 has to be prepared to make a move that probably will include Texas.
 
Any chance Hawaii could get a look from the Pac? If Notre Damn joins the ACC full time does that possibly put pressure on BYU to change the no games on Sunday policy? I'd like to see KU,BYU, Houston,and Hawaii/UNLV

If the only options are to look outside of the Pac 12 footprint someone from Texas seems inevitable :(
 
sackman said:
That's nice. Now tell me how what the Big 10 does forces our hand.
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Anything the other P5 conferences do forces our hand. Again, if you are content with the Pac-12 getting around $15 million less per year (at a minimum) than other conferences BEFORE those conferences potentially expand to add more valuable teams, then the Pac-12 should really do nothing. But at this point, it seems rather foolish to put the conference at a distinct disadvantage compared to peers out of pure stubbornness.
 
Market wise Houston sounds good, but what about academics and the overall fit? Additional expansion for the Pac12 is more difficult because of the population distribution in the States. That being said regional expansion is a farce anyway with Maryland in the BIG and West Virginia in the Big12.

My position is simple - if it is going to happen anyway, like Mountain I'd rather be among the first at the table, than be the one who only show up in time to get the leftovers. The Big12 is a prime example of how life is when you are not proactive.

I hate the arrogance of the whorns but you can't deny the dollar appeal and unfortunately dollars are what drive all this these days
 
Duff Man said:
Anything the other P5 conferences do forces our hand. Again, if you are content with the Pac-12 getting around $15 million less per year (at a minimum) than other conferences BEFORE those conferences potentially expand to add more valuable teams, then the Pac-12 should really do nothing. But at this point, it seems rather foolish to put the conference at a distinct disadvantage compared to peers out of pure stubbornness.
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You keep saying it forces our hand without ever explaining how it does so.
 
sackman said:
You keep saying it forces our hand without ever explaining how it does so.
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How does the conference increase the value and exposure of its brand without expansion? You are the one poster who seems irrational on this issue.
 
Duff Man said:
Anything the other P5 conferences do forces our hand. Again, if you are content with the Pac-12 getting around $15 million less per year (at a minimum) than other conferences BEFORE those conferences potentially expand to add more valuable teams, then the Pac-12 should really do nothing. But at this point, it seems rather foolish to put the conference at a distinct disadvantage compared to peers out of pure stubbornness.
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The Pac cannot effectively compete in the long-term if each program has significantly less resources.
 
TSchekler said:
There is zero chance that any Pac 12 expansion would end up being 4 G5 programs that add little to no financial upside. I could see Boise and a tiny sliver of hope for UNLV, given its location, but no shot for NM or SDSU.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I'm just trying to find solutions that doesn't involve Texas, and not getting anywhere. :puke:
 
If expansion happens, P12 should avoid UT like the plague. Grab UNM, The Okie schools and KU. Call it a day.
 
sackman said:
You keep saying it forces our hand without ever explaining how it does so.
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The exact same way all the other Pac-12 schools building new facilities forced CU's hand: we had to build new facilities just to stay in the conversation.

If the other P5 conferences keep pushing the envelope and keep getting bigger and get better media contracts as a result - it does in fact force the Pac-12's hand to get bigger and get better media contracts.

Sitting still is falling behind.
 
From a purely business perspective, it is impossible to ignore what is coming.

I can totally understand wanting to put our head in the sand and ignore it because we have a nice thing going right now, but the landscape is changing and we either change with it or get left behind.
 
Duff Man said:
How does the conference increase the value and exposure of its brand without expansion? You are the one poster who seems irrational on this issue.
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There's lots of ways. Better marketing, for instance. We have our own network and its sorely underutilized. Expansion for the sake of expansion is truly irrational. It's a knee jerk reaction to a "problem" that doesn't exist.

The concensus seems to be that we NEED Texas. Nothing could be farther from the truth. We need them like we need a root canal and a rectal exam all at the same time. We know what they bring, and it isn't pretty. We are far better off working ways to enhance what we have as opposed to the cheap route of expansion.

Besides, as has been pointed out like a million times, UT is a non starter as long as the LHN is in the mix. It's not going anywhere. Therefore UT isn't going anywhere. Our expansion options are very limited and all bring risks that we shouldn't be taking.
Let the Big 10 do what it wants to. I don't care.
 
skibum said:
The exact same way all the other Pac-12 schools building new facilities forced CU's hand: we had to build new facilities just to stay in the conversation.

If the other P5 conferences keep pushing the envelope and keep getting bigger and get better media contracts as a result - it does in fact force the Pac-12's hand to get bigger and get better media contracts.

Sitting still is falling behind.
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That's a false equivalency.
Expansion for the sake of expansion just splits the pie more ways and doesn't add value at all. The only schools that add value carry risks that we shouldn't be taking.

We are what we are. Concentrate on improving the brand. The rest will eventually fall into place.
 
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