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Pac 12 network / direct tv (PACN now on fuboTV streaming)



Among the agenda items for this week’s Pac-12 meetings in Phoenix is something called “Update on Pac-12 Networks.”

What that is, exactly, could be any number of things. Will the topic be the network’s meager payout to schools in comparison to the networks that the SEC and Big Ten produce?

Or could it be about the league’s decision to put only regional content on its regional feeds, meaning Pac-12 Arizona subscribers now don’t get league games not involving UA or Arizona State? Or the now-ages-old question of why DirecTV doesn’t carry it, costing the league exposure?

Similar questions surround a number of other items on the league’s meetings, which will include football and basketball coaches meeting with athletic directors today.

Then there’s a meeting with TV partners, which could get into the oft-controversial starting times and dates for both football and basketball, among other things.

“We expect a full docket,” UA athletic director Greg Byrne said. “They’ll be plenty of things to talk about.”

While declining to offer detail, Byrne said he expected to hear about the Pac-12 Networks’ regional telecast issue.
 
I'm conflicted among 3 paths:

1. Stay at 12 teams with the current structure. There is no reason to think expansion would ever be necessary for this conference to continue as part of the P5 with dominance of the western time zones.

2. Expand to 16 with a commitment to the west to solidify dominance of the region and maintain conference culture. To own it with now major market or media competition, the way to go would be San Diego State, BYU, Boise State and New Mexico. BYU is a very valuable property, but if that simply cannot happen with a vote of university presidents who concern themselves with things other than athletics, then UNLV is the target.

3. Expand to 14 with a move into the Central time zone while trying to avoid cultural destruction. Targets I'd prefer would be Kansas (Lawrence is a nice college town & they're an AAU member) and Oklahoma (Stillwater/ OK City not so bad) and they've really improved academics. From there, be prepared to strategically go to 16 as the dominoes fall. Could be 2 from the west (SDSU & Boise State, maybe) or 2 from the remnants of the Big 12 w/ Houston in that mix.
 
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I'd say no expansion since there is no need - Nik's #1, but if we have to expand (for some unknown reason) I'd like to see #3. To me, the west is already locked down by the PAC. If we have to expand, I'd like to see it be in the central time zone (and like the idea of Kansas and Oklahoma - if possible). Somehow I just don't see folks in Oklahoma being too psyched about the PAC though.
 
@Buffnik, who can the conference add that markedly ADDS revenue??? Bringing on two more teams asks the current members to divide the pie from 12 to 14 or 16. The only way that vote is approved is if the new member adds a significant dollar amount that brings the value of the new smaller slice to a value greater than the current dollar amount.

The current P12 CEO delivered on larger TV dollars for t1 and t2 rights. But he failed to deliver on other parts of his thesis and he couldn't close a Texas & OU deal. So, I suspect you'd have to see a change at CEO before you see an expansion.

Add in the uncertainty around TV rights deals and cord cutting and I doubt there is much of a willingness to do more expansion at this time. I think everyone is in wait and see mode.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
@Buffnik, who can the conference add that markedly ADDS revenue??? Bringing on two more teams asks the current members to divide the pie from 12 to 14 or 16. The only way that vote is approved is if the new member adds a significant dollar amount that brings the value of the new smaller slice to a value greater than the current dollar amount.

The current P12 CEO delivered on larger TV dollars for t1 and t2 rights. But he failed to deliver on other parts of his thesis and he couldn't close a Texas & OU deal. So, I suspect you'd have to see a change at CEO before you see an expansion.

Add in the uncertainty around TV rights deals and cord cutting and I doubt there is much of a willingness to do more expansion at this time. I think everyone is in wait and see mode.
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I agree. To me there is no driver for PAC 12 expansion. Right now the Networks may be reluctant to pay out rights fees. The business model for content distribution is undergoing a change with sports programming at the center of the discussion. We have another thread regarding ESPN cost cutting so if they are really in cost cutting mode they will be reluctant to increase rights fees. The original contract was done over 5 years ago - the landscape was different.
 
Looks like streaming consolidation is starting to happen. Nobody wants to have to use multiple boxes, remotes and input feeds in order to change what they're watching. One argument for expansion is that going from 12 teams to 16 teams give you ownerships of 33% more content to offer customers (or 20+% if there's math involved there regarding conference road games versus existing members not being new content).

Edit: removed bad link, but Hulu is going onto sling, playstation, etc.
 
Buffnik said:
Looks like streaming consolidation is starting to happen. Nobody wants to have to use multiple boxes, remotes and input feeds in order to change what they're watching. One argument for expansion is that going from 12 teams to 16 teams give you ownerships of 33% more content to offer customers (or 20+% if there's math involved there regarding conference road games versus existing members not being new content).

Edit: removed bad link, but Hulu is going onto sling, playstation, etc.
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You don't need multiple boxes or multiple inputs. You can get a single streaming device like Amazon Fire, Roku, Xbox, Apple TV for example and a single Internet connection. Sling, Vue, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflixs, CBS online, are all apps you can put on your device. Hulu is not going onto Sling or Vue, they announced they are going to compete with those services by offering a new online cable-like service.
 
Buffnik said:
Looks like streaming consolidation is starting to happen. Nobody wants to have to use multiple boxes, remotes and input feeds in order to change what they're watching. One argument for expansion is that going from 12 teams to 16 teams give you ownerships of 33% more content to offer customers (or 20+% if there's math involved there regarding conference road games versus existing members not being new content).

Edit: removed bad link, but Hulu is going onto sling, playstation, etc.
Click to expand...

Hulu is a partnership between Fox, Disney, and NBC. "They", specifically Disney, are planning a package that will cost an additional $40 a month to get the Disney networks.
 
Buffnik said:
Looks like streaming consolidation is starting to happen. Nobody wants to have to use multiple boxes, remotes and input feeds in order to change what they're watching. One argument for expansion is that going from 12 teams to 16 teams give you ownerships of 33% more content to offer customers (or 20+% if there's math involved there regarding conference road games versus existing members not being new content).

Edit: removed bad link, but Hulu is going onto sling, playstation, etc.
Click to expand...

That's half the reason I paid money to buy a Tivo Roamio (the other half being I really hate giving Comcast a permanent rental fee). The Tivo box gives me live TV from Comcast, plus OnDemand as well as integrated apps for Netflix, Hulu, Amazon and some other streaming services. It also has a universal search feature across all of the platforms which is really nice.

Things are going to get wacky with the shift to IP based content delivery and the FCC's mandate that they open up the set top box market (supposedly they really, really mean it this time since CableCard was a flop).

What I want to know is why doesn't it sound like there is any movement on this front either for the P12 Network? LHN is available as part of the Playstation Vue package now for pete's sake.
 
I used to be a subscriber to the "Don't expand unless doing so would increase the per school revenue, and only Texas and ND could do that" theory.

However, with our inability to make enough of an impact to get us on Direct TV, wouldn't it be possible to add a few schools to add more fanbases which may be able to convince DirectTV to pick the network up? That would increase per school revenue to everybody. If this is all that's needed, I believe there are a lot more candidates which could get that done. We need a more obnoxious fan base, more people demanding content, threatening, and switching away from Direct TV, or whichever provider or medium isn't carrying our network. I think expansion is a lot more likely for the PAC12 today than it was 2 years ago.

Expansion may lead to getting our network to where we thought it would be, which would be a significantly larger revenue windfall than it is now. Theoretically, that smaller 1/14th or 1/16th slice of a much larger pie could still work out to everyone's advantage without requiring adding a huge whale.
 
Tractor said:
I used to be a subscriber to the "Don't expand unless doing so would increase the per school revenue, and only Texas and ND could do that" theory.

However, with our inability to make enough of an impact to get us on Direct TV, wouldn't it be possible to add a few schools to add more fanbases which may be able to convince DirectTV to pick the network up? That would increase per school revenue to everybody. If this is all that's needed, I believe there are a lot more candidates which could get that done. We need a more obnoxious fan base, more people demanding content, threatening, and switching away from Direct TV, or whichever provider or medium isn't carrying our network. I think expansion is a lot more likely for the PAC12 today than it was 2 years ago.

Expansion may lead to getting our network to where we thought it would be, which would be a significantly larger revenue windfall than it is now. Theoretically, that smaller 1/14th or 1/16th slice of a much larger pie could still work out to everyone's advantage without requiring adding a huge whale.
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I think you could count on OU football fans and KU basketball fans to raise a much larger fuss about not being able to see their games than the entirety of the current Pac 12 fanbase has or ever will.
 
OU and KU are not going to take a piss without their little brothers coming along let alone change conference affiliation. A case can also be made that KSU in overall sports programs (not that it is the deciding factor) has more clout then KU does. Lets face it KU is a 1 trick pony.
Not that I am advocating for a second but Mrs. C's alma mater would be target 1, yes Boy's and Girl's that is the University of Texas. Some sort of deal would need to be worked out with ESPN but the LHN becomes another P12 outlet. We align with ESPN and our exposure issues are over. Last but not least you own Texas now, which any business model will tell you trumps all of the others including San Diego where they dont give a flying **** to begin with. Now your going have to include the Red Raiders to pull it off. As a byproduct Bailer gets ****ed like a drunk prom date.
 
EddieCrowder said:
OU and KU are not going to take a piss without their little brothers coming along let alone change conference affiliation. A case can also be made that KSU in overall sports programs (not that it is the deciding factor) has more clout then KU does. Lets face it KU is a 1 trick pony.
Not that I am advocating for a second but Mrs. C's alma mater would be target 1, yes Boy's and Girl's that is the University of Texas. Some sort of deal would need to be worked out with ESPN but the LHN becomes another P12 outlet. We align with ESPN and our exposure issues are over. Last but not least you own Texas now, which any business model will tell you trumps all of the others including San Diego where they dont give a flying **** to begin with. Now your going have to include the Red Raiders to pull it off. As a byproduct Bailer gets ****ed like a drunk prom date.
Click to expand...
You bring up a good point for buff fans to determine. What would you prefer? Texas joining the Pac-12 or Baylor getting completely screwed out of P5 sports?
 
EddieCrowder said:
OU and KU are not going to take a piss without their little brothers coming along let alone change conference affiliation. A case can also be made that KSU in overall sports programs (not that it is the deciding factor) has more clout then KU does. Lets face it KU is a 1 trick pony.
Not that I am advocating for a second but Mrs. C's alma mater would be target 1, yes Boy's and Girl's that is the University of Texas. Some sort of deal would need to be worked out with ESPN but the LHN becomes another P12 outlet. We align with ESPN and our exposure issues are over. Last but not least you own Texas now, which any business model will tell you trumps all of the others including San Diego where they dont give a flying **** to begin with. Now your going have to include the Red Raiders to pull it off. As a byproduct Bailer gets ****ed like a drunk prom date.
Click to expand...

UT is not gonna let anyone take away their promised $10mil per season (escalates to $15mil) that they get for the LHN alone away. Sorry.

Thus any deal with UT likely comes with the condition that they get 1/14th of conference revenue AND $10mil (or some slightly negotiated lesser amount) per year. Unless the conference folds or kicks them out. Then they are negotiating from a position of weakness.

As for owning Texas it's already divided in so much that Texas A&M is in the SEC. So you share the TV market with that geographically and culturally closer conference. Ten division 1 schools also means that the other programs, all with lots of local alums, are going to get some of that air time too. Local affiliates are going to broadcast TCU, Baylor, TT, et al., over Pacific Northerwest, California or Colorado games because of ratings.
 
The biggest money would be a Pac-16 that added KU, UT, OU and TTU. The East would be those programs plus CU, UA, ASU, UU. The West would be the original Pac-8 members.

I'm pretty sure that most CU fans would hate that. I'm also pretty sure that it would have the votes needed to carry.
 
Buffnik said:
The biggest money would be a Pac-16 that added KU, UT, OU and TTU. The East would be those programs plus CU, UA, ASU, UU. The West would be the original Pac-8 members.

I'm pretty sure that most CU fans would hate that. I'm also pretty sure that it would have the votes needed to carry.
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Would be so pissed.
 
MiamiBuffs said:
UT is not gonna let anyone take away their promised $10mil per season (escalates to $15mil) that they get for the LHN alone away. Sorry.

Thus any deal with UT likely comes with the condition that they get 1/14th of conference revenue AND $10mil (or some slightly negotiated lesser amount) per year. Unless the conference folds or kicks them out. Then they are negotiating from a position of weakness.
As for owning Texas it's already divided in so much that Texas A&M is in the SEC. So you share the TV market with that geographically and culturally closer conference. Ten division 1 schools also means that the other programs, all with lots of local alums, are going to get some of that air time too. Local affiliates are going to broadcast TCU, Baylor, TT, et al., over Pacific Northerwest, California or Colorado games because of ratings.
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Miami your wrong on the divided, I have been here 21 years and outside of Waco and Lubbock being flat owned by Bailer, and TT there is UT and there are the rest and that is a fact. I work in FTW and there are more UT fans in FTW then their are TCU fans. what you find is their are the Alums of the others and their are Aggies and Longhorns.
And that cultural horse**** may have been true 40 years ago but not so much anymore. DFW is as metropolitan as any place I do business in. In fact the FL panhandle is far more loaded bass ackward rednecks then any of the big cities in Texas. And thats the target, not Big Spring in TX or Ocala in FL. its where the mass eyeballs reside.
Austin TX is one of the greatest towns I have ever been to, the only place I have ever been that compares is Boulder only Austin is x20 bigger in size.
 
EddieCrowder said:
Miami your wrong on the divided, I have been here 21 years and outside of Waco and Lubbock being flat owned by Bailer, and TT there is UT and there are the rest and that is a fact. I work in FTW and there are more UT fans in FTW then their are TCU fans. what you find is their are the Alums of the others and their are Aggies and Longhorns.
And that cultural horse**** may have been true 40 years ago but not so much anymore. DFW is as metropolitan as any place I do business in. In fact the FL panhandle is far more loaded bass ackward rednecks then any of the big cities in Texas. And thats the target, not Big Spring in TX or Ocala in FL. its where the mass eyeballs reside.
Austin TX is one of the greatest towns I have ever been to, the only place I have ever been that compares is Boulder only Austin is x20 bigger in size.
Click to expand...

Im mostly talking about the Television market being divided. Who follows or is an alum of X, Y, or Z has a pretty low value equation except in terms of TV ratings and the ability to sell advertising. My guess is that when a UT game is on that stations ratings are good. But, when the SEC games are on against every other BigXII game the SEC stations are probably experiencing much better ratings. I dont see the Pac12 making a difference in that equation.

In terms of ratings/TV contract value consider the following;

The University of Texas tied for 34th in the television ratings while A&M placed 12th , the type of news Aggie fans enjoy a great deal. The highest-ranked Big 12 team was Oklahoma at #26 while SEC teams made up twelve of the Top 25 spots. Also, in the twenty-five most-watched football games this season (not counting bowls), SEC teams participated twenty three times, Big Ten teams participated eleven times, ACC teams participated eleven times, while Big 12 and Pac 12 teams were only represented one time each as were Army, Navy, and Notre Dame. It is fairly obvious that the Big 12 did not have any single game that drew huge ratings. The highest rated Big 12 game (TCU vs. West Virginia with 4.43 million viewers) finished well outside of the Top 25 rated broadcasts. My analysis of the data also suggests that the relationship between CBS and the SEC is very beneficial for the conference even as a “loss leader” as nine of the twenty five most viewed games were on CBS.

http://thesportseconomist.com/2015/02/09/analyzing-2014-college-football-television-ratings/

The author adjusts the numbers and attempts to remove the bias. After doing so SEC TV ratings still dominated all other conference ratings. Even the P12 went in and snatched up UT and OU tomorrow they'd still only get a lesser proportion of total TV eyeballs because all the CBS affiliates in the state would have more compelling match ups on. Im not sure we want to go there anymore.
 
Buffnik said:
The biggest money would be a Pac-16 that added KU, UT, OU and TTU. The East would be those programs plus CU, UA, ASU, UU. The West would be the original Pac-8 members.

I'm pretty sure that most CU fans would hate that. I'm also pretty sure that it would have the votes needed to carry.
Click to expand...

That would suck. Why does TTU need to be included? If we have to take a UT why would the Pac not just stop the UT and then try for maybe an OU. If we need to get to 16 take a Houston and I would rather have a UNLV if we don't care about academics.
 
The problem I see, from a CU perspective, is that most of the possibilities drag us east. I agree OU and KU would be good additions, but at what cost? If that means adding the little brothers, which in turn leads to East and West division, I would be upset.

It's just too bad that there are no viable options to add in the northwest. I know that BYU won't happen, but it would be great if Utah and BYU could go north (Wash, Ore. OSU, WSU, Stan and Cal), then add Houston - or some other Texas school, San Diego State and a player to be named later to CU, ASU, Pooh of A, U$C, and fUCLA.

I'm actually content, but if 16 teams is the answer, I would fight to stay in southern California and not in Norman.
 
The University of Texas tied for 34th in the television ratings while A&M placed 12th , the type of news Aggie fans enjoy a great deal. The highest-ranked Big 12 team was Oklahoma at #26 while SEC teams made up twelve of the Top 25 spots. Also, in the twenty-five most-watched football games this season (not counting bowls), SEC teams participated twenty three times, Big Ten teams participated eleven times, ACC teams participated eleven times, while Big 12 and Pac 12 teams were only represented one time each as were Army, Navy, and Notre Dame. It is fairly obvious that the Big 12 did not have any single game that drew huge ratings. The highest rated Big 12 game (TCU vs. West Virginia with 4.43 million viewers) finished well outside of the Top 25 rated broadcasts. My analysis of the data also suggests that the relationship between CBS and the SEC is very beneficial for the conference even as a “loss leader” as nine of the twenty five most viewed games were on CBS.

http://thesportseconomist.com/2015/02/09/analyzing-2014-college-football-television-ratings/

Thats good stuff Miami, but honestly its a product of UT being bad currently. For every self proclaimed Aggie i meet or know here, there are 10 Horns
 
EddieCrowder said:
The University of Texas tied for 34th in the television ratings while A&M placed 12th , the type of news Aggie fans enjoy a great deal. The highest-ranked Big 12 team was Oklahoma at #26 while SEC teams made up twelve of the Top 25 spots. Also, in the twenty-five most-watched football games this season (not counting bowls), SEC teams participated twenty three times, Big Ten teams participated eleven times, ACC teams participated eleven times, while Big 12 and Pac 12 teams were only represented one time each as were Army, Navy, and Notre Dame. It is fairly obvious that the Big 12 did not have any single game that drew huge ratings. The highest rated Big 12 game (TCU vs. West Virginia with 4.43 million viewers) finished well outside of the Top 25 rated broadcasts. My analysis of the data also suggests that the relationship between CBS and the SEC is very beneficial for the conference even as a “loss leader” as nine of the twenty five most viewed games were on CBS.

http://thesportseconomist.com/2015/02/09/analyzing-2014-college-football-television-ratings/

Thats good stuff Miami, but honestly its a product of UT being bad currently. For every self proclaimed Aggie i meet or know here, there are 10 Horns
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Depends on which circles you find yourself running around. Some industries and activities have more UT supporters than others.

UT gets a good showing for people who run, bike, camp, ski, and engage in high paying fields of law and energy. The gay and arts communities tend to be more UT (and Austin) friendly.

But it's harder to find UT fans in law enforcement, veterinarians, hospitality, and various service industries. If you are around people who are into hunting, MMA, prepping, and drinking bud light, then UT gets outnumbered by A&M or TTU or OU.

There are some proud pockets of TCU supporters around FTW's Colonial and River Crest country clubs.

SMU kicks out some proud MBA and Law grads who stay close to the Park Cities and work downtown.

But mostly DFW sports fans like to back winners. With UT having a few down years, it's amazing to see more Baylor crap showing up on cars and apparel on my side of town.

When your logo resembles female reproductive organs and a used diaper after Gerber strained carrots night is your school color, AND your team isn't winning, then the UT t-shirt fans tend to go into hiding.
 
For those without Pac12 Network you're not really missing much. Pac12 mtn is basically pac 12 utah utes network. Their programming easily out numbers ours 10-1. We have 1 hour in the next 3 days and it's our football game vs utah. Lame
 
I don't see expansion making fiscal sense unless the incoming schools represent larger TV markets than the average existing markets. P12 is fading behind SEC and BIG for media $. That being said, UT, Houston, OU (whole state of OK) and SDSU would be good media market targets.

The ultimate expansion would be to add and consolidate existing media relationships. UT and Notre Dame would be the top targets. Before you say ND could never happen (I agree); BIG is expanding to 9 conference games -only Michigan State stays on their regular (historically annual) schedule - Michigan and Purdue drop off. ACC schedule is at least five games. Two annual ND games are P12 opponents (USC, Stanford). ND could still keep MiSt, Army , navy on schedule.

UT and ND bring their existing revenues. P12 gains ESPN and NBC contracting. ND only received $5M from ACC last year, P12 stake would crush that. UT gets stability (until they kill it) and maybe an initial equity buyout of LH Network assets.
 
BuffHerd said:
I don't see expansion making fiscal sense unless the incoming schools represent larger TV markets than the average existing markets. P12 is fading behind SEC and BIG for media $. That being said, UT, Houston, OU (whole state of OK) and SDSU would be good media market targets.

The ultimate expansion would be to add and consolidate existing media relationships. UT and Notre Dame would be the top targets. Before you say ND could never happen (I agree); BIG is expanding to 9 conference games -only Michigan State stays on their regular (historically annual) schedule - Michigan and Purdue drop off. ACC schedule is at least five games. Two annual ND games are P12 opponents (USC, Stanford). ND could still keep MiSt, Army , navy on schedule.

UT and ND bring their existing revenues. P12 gains ESPN and NBC contracting. ND only received $5M from ACC last year, P12 stake would crush that. UT gets stability (until they kill it) and maybe an initial equity buyout of LH Network assets.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna be at Casa Bonita at 2pm. I'll see you there.
 
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