Passing on the 3rd down at the end of the game was the right decision

[BuffNut99]

Totally agree.

I think you run the ball on 3rd down. I understand throwing it and trying to put the game away on one play. But if you run it, get stopped, get the clock down to around a minute, pin them back inside the 20... it changes your defensive scheme. You can afford to sit back a little and force them to dink and dunk to try and get into field goal range. One of the reasons that Perkins was even in a position to bite on the TD pass was that we had to defend against the 15-20 yard pass, because there was still enough time left on the clock for that play to hurt us. Perkins should have known better anyway, but, in scenario B, if Wazzu has the ball out to our 25 (after a couple of plays), the clock is probably around :40 and Perkins is playing center field, and we would never let a WR get behind us there.

 

[Buffnik]

Is everyone being consistent with what he wanted at the time the play was live?

I wanted a pass and I'm not going back on that. I think you take your shot to win it right there. Get 6 yards with a throw or Hansen scramble and we're taking a knee to end the game.

 

[DBT]

How about Speedy running OB earlier? I was like, WTF?

 

[DBT]

Is everyone being consistent with what he wanted at the time the play was live?

I wanted a pass and I'm not going back on that. I think you take your shot to win it right there. Get 6 yards with a throw or Hansen scramble and we're taking a knee to end the game.

I wanted a pass but I didn't like the one they called. It was pretty low percentage, I thought.

 

[jpbuff]

Throw an incomplete pass and guess what happens. Way, way to much time left on the clock.

Is everyone being consistent with what he wanted at the time the play was live?

I wanted a pass and I'm not going back on that. I think you take your shot to win it right there. Get 6 yards with a throw or Hansen scramble and we're taking a knee to end the game.

 

[Darth Snow]

Throw an incomplete pass and guess what happens. Way, way to much time left on the clock.

They had 2 time outs and 2 minutes left. If we run the ball and don't get the 1st, they either have 2 minutes and 1 time out, or 1:20~ and 2 time outs. Way to much time either way. Only thing worth doing was getting that 1st down.

 

[wsp4820]

In hindsight, they used the sweet PRich/Speedy fake flair right to PRich, throw back left to Speedy play way too early in the game.

 

[jpbuff]

They had 2 time outs and 2 minutes left. If we run the ball and don't get the 1st, they either have 2 minutes and 1 time out, or 1:20~ and 2 time outs. Way to much time either way. Only thing worth doing was getting that 1st down.

Washington State called their final timout at 2:03 left in the game. The play right before our incomplete pass. So they had no timeouts before we ran our incomplete pass to stop the clock for them. Run it, qb sneak it, take a knee but keep the damn clock running.

 

[SECOBuffsFan]

I wanted a run, they should have ran the ball and they should have told their safeties (Perkins) not to bite on pump fakes and go for interceptions

 

[Darth Snow]

Washington State called their final timout at 2:03 left in the game. The play right before our incomplete pass. So they had no timeouts before we ran our incomplete pass to stop the clock for them. Run it, qb sneak it, take a knee but keep the damn clock running.

Fine, 2 minutes or 1:20, they scored in 40 seconds.

 

[GoBuffs08]

Washington State called their final timout at 2:03 left in the game. The play right before our incomplete pass. So they had no timeouts before we ran our incomplete pass to stop the clock for them. Run it, qb sneak it, take a knee but keep the damn clock running.

THIS-

We talk about being a tough smash mouth team. Bieniemy needed to call a play with zero % chance of stopping the clock.

 

[Darth Snow]

THIS-

We talk about being a tough smash mouth team. Bieniemy needed to call a play with zero % chance of stopping the clock.

Stopping the clock: good.
Getting the first down: better. You guys act like picking up the first down was worth nothing. We had two CBs who got their first college snaps ever at the position playing, and they were killing our in the 4th. It sucks it didn't work out, but you can't vilify the decision to pass.

 

[Creebuzz]

I was in chat and called for a run. I immediately thought it was a bad call and said so. Run the 40 seconds off and punt. The fact that they scored really quickly is irrelevant. The whole nature of WSU's last drive would have changed with less time on the clock. They essentially would have been looking at longer throws to get huge chunks of yardage (thus allowing us to play a true prevent D). However, since they had more time they were able to work the middle of the field over 10 yards and could've marched down the field.

 

[cnbuff410]

I was expecting the pass. I wanted us to win immediately and no need to worry any more. With our DB, everything could happen in just 30 seconds.

I think it's a right call. We just failed to execute it.

 

[slider]

Runnign the ball would have been conceding defeat in my mind

 

[JWP303]

Fine, 2 minutes or 1:20, they scored in 40 seconds.

As I said earlier in the thread, Brown would be able to call different defenses if the clock is 1:20 vs. 2:00. So, to assume they would have scored in 40 seconds ignores the major difference in running a 2 minute drill with 2 minutes vs. running it with 1:20. Apples/oranges.

 

[JWP303]

Is everyone being consistent with what he wanted at the time the play was live?

I wanted a pass and I'm not going back on that. I think you take your shot to win it right there. Get 6 yards with a throw or Hansen scramble and we're taking a knee to end the game.

I was adamant from the start that you have to run. Some people in my party disagreed, but again, I think the one thing everyone is discounting is that you have to strategize for OUR personnel. Sure, passing is the right call in the NFL or a solid program with a good QB, but our offense is bad, our QB is bad, and they have not proven themselves trustworthy in these situations. You play it conservative because you are at home against a bad team. Play the percentages, don't buck conventional wisdom when you are as bad as we are.

 

[Darth Snow]

I was adamant from the start that you have to run. Some people in my party disagreed, but again, I think the one thing everyone is discounting is that you have to strategize for OUR personnel. Sure, passing is the right call in the NFL or a solid program with a good QB, but our offense is bad, our QB is bad, and they have not proven themselves trustworthy in these situations. You play it conservative because you are at home against a bad team. Play the percentages, don't buck conventional wisdom when you are as bad as we are.

I noticed you talking a lot about the offense's problems. How do you address the defensive liabilities that were no doubt the driving factor behind the decision to pass? Please, strategize for THOSE personnel.

 

[JWP303]

I noticed you talking a lot about the offense's problems. How do you address the defensive liabilities that were no doubt the driving factor behind the decision to pass? Please, strategize for THOSE personnel.

That's a fair point.

Again, it's a percentage play. You put the pressure on the other team to convert a low percentage situation (driving 60+ yards with no timeouts in a hostile environment.) I'd still rather put the pressure on a very average Wazzou team in a clear-cut passing situation. I thought that during the TO after 3rd down and I still feel that way. I would never put the ball in Hansen's hands there because of my fear that he'd do exactly what he did.

 

[Darth Snow]

That's a fair point.

Again, it's a percentage play. You put the pressure on the other team to convert a low percentage situation (driving 60+ yards with no timeouts in a hostile environment.) I'd still rather put the pressure on a very average Wazzou team in a clear-cut passing situation. I thought that during the TO after 3rd down and I still feel that way. I would never put the ball in Hansen's hands there because of my fear that he'd do exactly what he did.

And thats a fair viewpoint... I'm pretty sure the coaches would rather have the ball in hansen's hands then depend on our D at that point.

Plus, what was the % change in the likelihood of our D holding them with 2 minutes or with 1:20? Would it have gone from 60 to 40? Vs the % change if our O makes that first down? (goes from 60 to 0)....

I'm not gonna do the math, but I'm pretty sure the % was on the side of going for the first down.

 

[JWP303]

And thats a fair viewpoint... I'm pretty sure the coaches would rather have the ball in hansen's hands then depend on our D at that point.

Plus, what was the % change in the likelihood of our D holding them with 2 minutes or with 1:20? Would it have gone from 60 to 40? Vs the % change if our O makes that first down? (goes from 60 to 0)....

I'm not gonna do the math, but I'm pretty sure the % was on the side of going for the first down.

I see how a logical person could disagree with me... But if it's me calling the shots, I don't put the game in Hansen's hands. He is not clutch, he is not even keeled, he is not especially athletic. If you HAVE to go for it there, let him roll right for a run/pass option. But if I am coaching I run 100% of the time, put the ball in either of our RB's hands (who I trust more than Hansen), and then force Wazzou to pass into an 8 man secondary.

 

[Darth Snow]

I see how a logical person could disagree with me... But if it's me calling the shots, I don't put the game in Hansen's hands. He is not clutch, he is not even keeled, he is not especially athletic. If you HAVE to go for it there, let him roll right for a run/pass option. But if I am coaching I run 100% of the time, put the ball in either of our RB's hands (who I trust more than Hansen), and then force Wazzou to pass into an 8 man secondary.

On reflection, I would rather have run it twice and gone for it on 4th if we got good yardage on 3d.

 

[TimmyDUBs]

Running is the play you make if you don't want to lose. Bienemy doesn't like that 'loser' mentality and wanted to make a play to guarantee the win. Problem is that we have a team full of losers, so Bienemy should probably have sucked up his pride and stuck to the call that keeps the clock running.

 

[JWP303]

Running is the play you make if you don't want to lose. Bienemy doesn't like that 'loser' mentality and wanted to make a play to guarantee the win. Problem is that we have a team full of losers, so Bienemy should probably have sucked up his pride and stuck to the call that keeps the clock running.

Bingo.

This is EXACTLY the point I am trying to make. I love that our coaches have it in them to go for the win in that situation, but you have to know your team and your limitations... Hansen is going to burn you more often than not in that situation - as he has proven time and time again.

 

[Darth Snow]

Bingo.

This is EXACTLY the point I am trying to make. I love that our coaches have it in them to go for the win in that situation, but you have to know your team and your limitations... Hansen is going to burn you more often than not in that situation - as he has proven time and time again.

So, I'm guessing you would not be in favor of going for it on 4th and 1 if that 3d down run had gotten us there?

 

[Tea Rex]

I like the decision to go for the win but not the execution. Not a fan of the idea of running the ball for 2-3 yards then punting and hoping your defense holds(which in our case wouldn't have mattered since they scored in 40 seconds anyways). But hopefully EB learns from this if if presented with a similar decision again calls a more efficient play.

 

[Darth Snow]

I like the decision to go for the win but not the execution. Not a fan of the idea of running the ball for 2-3 yards then punting and hoping your defense holds(which in our case wouldn't have mattered since they scored in 40 seconds anyways). But hopefully EB learns from this if if presented with a similar decision again calls a more efficient play.

Efficiency is in doubt as to run v pass. Especially since someone didn't even run the called play.

 

[JWP303]

So, I'm guessing you would not be in favor of going for it on 4th and 1 if that 3d down run had gotten us there?

Nah, not on Saturday, not with this team. If I'm Embree I'm taking the uber conservative approach and trying to grind out a victory. Again, it's all situation dependent. If we're punting to Andrew Luck instead of the Cougar backup then maybe I rethink my philosophy (granted, this rings hollow given they proceeded to shred us deep, but I'm still all about the percentages and I've gotta believe we're going to stop them more often than they're going to shred us.)

 

[Darth Snow]

Nah, not on Saturday, not with this team. If I'm Embree I'm taking the uber conservative approach and trying to grind out a victory. Again, it's all situation dependent. If we're punting to Andrew Luck instead of the Cougar backup then maybe I rethink my philosophy (granted, this rings hollow given they proceeded to shred us deep, but I'm still all about the percentages and I've gotta believe we're going to stop them more often than they're going to shred us.)

Given our secondary was made up of the shredded remains of our depth chart, I think this is our primary disagreement :lol:

 

[wsp4820]

Given our secondary was made up of the shredded remains of our depth chart, I think this is our primary disagreement :lol:

And given how quickly and easily they scored the first of the two final touchdowns. Defense had nothing left. No pressure on the QB, huge cushions for the receivers, shoddy tackling. The crowd knew it, the coaches knew it, and the players knew it: if WSU got the ball back we were going to lose.