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Predict Early Impact from this class so far

boydbuff said:
I agree. I think in almost every program, even the top 10 programs, a few freshmen always rise to the top and get some PT as true freshmen. Usually this is the skill positions (WR/RB). B/c we haven't had a deep enough roster in the last several years, we have had to start some true freshmen at DB, LB and even QB this year, which is far from ideal.

I think we are starting to get better depth but we still lack overall team speed so of course speedy freshmen have a shot at a lot of PT at this point. This is why pretty much everyone I listed that I think will get meaningful PT have the speed we have been lacking.
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I'm in the camp that says this is the result of piss-poor S&C coaching before Forman came aboard.

Pittman was strictly "old school: how heavy-how many-times " and WB's guy was "old school pro coach: you-know-what-you need-to-do"! Neither taught proper technique nor knew the fundamentals of good speed training for young, developing athletes.

If you think speed training is worthless, just ask Usain Bolt about his speed coach. Much of "sport speed" results from good technique and strength.

Face it, the 4 & 5 star guys are usually much more physically mature for their ages, which is why they stand out. You can tell that by looking at them on the sidelines at "Bama, U$C and similar places: they're bigger, bulkier and look older. No baby-faced guys at those schools. Our guys look like they need to learn how to shave first. Decent athletes, just not yet physically mature, yet!
 
Who honestly thought that a new coach, even with the best recruiters, could pull in 4 and 5* guys? Seriously? After what the last 5 or so years has shown? Mac is taking the correct approach getting, tough, versatile, smart players in there. I'll take an entire team full of Addison Gilliam's.
 
vinniew_11 said:
Who honestly thought that a new coach, even with the best recruiters, could pull in 4 and 5* guys? Seriously? After what the last 5 or so years has shown? Mac is taking the correct approach getting, tough, versatile, smart players in there. I'll take an entire team full of Addison Gilliam's.
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You honestly think every underrated recruit is going to be Addison Gilliam? We are not competing with BCS Conference teams for recruits. Problem is that we play in a BCS Conference. Nash may get his wish if we dont start getting players that arent overachievers.
 
fatbuff said:
You honestly think every underrated recruit is going to be Addison Gilliam? We are not competing with BCS Conference teams for recruits. Problem is that we play in a BCS Conference. Nash may get his wish if we dont start getting players that arent overachievers.
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What recruits per say did we get that don't have BCS offers? Not ones that are listed here but on Scout and what not? Not too many actually.
 
Two seasons ago CU made SportsCenter for its ineptitude and was a national joke as a football program...you don't overcome that in 1 single season....we bottomed out 2 years ago and you better get ready for a slow climb because that is what it is gonna take. Recruiting will improve when we show that talent can be developed here and sent to the next level
 
Also, a lot of them are getting a late push from schools, like a Lopez and a Rodrigez (the OL prospect, is that his name?)
 
I think Dylan Keeney is the most likely to have a major impact as a true frosh.
 
I would guess that a few see the field and possibly one or two play enough to garner stats that make an impact. As far as players who can help the team turn an L in to a W I don't see anything unless we hit on vastly improved special teams. Most of the guys appear to be projects that will be on the 4 year development plan.
 
Hindsight is always 20/20, but I am withholding judgement on the class. I am more optimistic than any of the similarly rated classes that Hawk and Embree put together because I see A LOT of raw ability and speed in these guys that just screams potential...

Of course, potential doesn't equal success or talent, and only time will tell who shines and who fades, but I have a hard time criticizing the staff for the guys they've brought in, considering their track record and and CU's present status to recruits as an equivalent program to WSU, ISU, Kansas, etc.
 
vinniew_11 said:
What recruits per say did we get that don't have BCS offers? Not ones that are listed here but on Scout and what not? Not too many actually.
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I think a better way of looking at this is CU is trying to keep other teams away from vulturing their 3rd and 4th options at positions. So some of our kids now are getting BCS offers as the recruiting plays out.

We absolutely haven't recruited well against our conference peers this year and I can just hope that we can hang onto the guys that are finally drawing more interest from them. I can list a whole bunch of recruiting losses. Chance Waz, Glen Ihenacho, Kolin Hill, Trevor Kelly, Haniteli Louisi, Kalen Ballage and almost all of the other CO. kids of significance. I can't really list to many wins on the recruiting front where we went head to head and secured a guy. Dotson or Aspay possibly?
 
o_robbie said:
I think a better way of looking at this is CU is trying to keep other teams away from vulturing their 3rd and 4th options at positions. So some of our kids now are getting BCS offers as the recruiting plays out.

We absolutely haven't recruited well against our conference peers this year and I can just hope that we can hang onto the guys that are finally drawing more interest from them. I can list a whole bunch of recruiting losses. Chance Waz, Glen Ihenacho, Kolin Hill, Trevor Kelly, Haniteli Louisi, Kalen Ballage and almost all of the other CO. kids of significance. I can't really list to many wins on the recruiting front where we went head to head and secured a guy. Dotson or Aspay possibly?
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Regardless, they are still players that they want on their team. The Juco CB said he was beyond impressed with his OV to Boulder. I bet if we got Glen or Louisi here, they might have been impressed too.
 
vinniew_11 said:
Who honestly thought that a new coach, even with the best recruiters, could pull in 4 and 5* guys? Seriously? After what the last 5 or so years has shown? Mac is taking the correct approach getting, tough, versatile, smart players in there. I'll take an entire team full of Addison Gilliam's.
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No one did and no one has those expectations.
 
fatbuff said:
Is anybody satisfied with this class? I'll withhold judgment until I see some play, but I feel really letdown right now. Good coaching will only take you so far in college football. Where our program is, we would be better off with a great recruiter than a great coach. If Mac2 doesn't work out, we may be in worse shape than we already were, and I didn't think that was possible.
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So were you expecting to jump to winning 10 games in a few years? These type of classes will get you to 6-7 wins by keeping them in school and developing, both things Hawkins and Embree failed to do, and by that point recruiting to CU when combined with the facilities won't be all that difficult and we'll see a uptick in recruiting big time. I've been saying this a lot but slow down attrition and you will field a much more competitive team. When 18 year olds play versus 23 year olds who are grown men on the field it usually turns out bad, even worse when you have a bunch of youngins across the board.

Offensively I like the class. We upgraded our speed, added a TE who is raw but looks to have a lot of potential, and I think we've got two damn good tackles committed right now. Defense the question is still out.
 
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Duff Man said:
Do you know the difference between the current recruiting level and actual blue chip recruiting? It would appear not.
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I do. And to think that, at this point, we could recruit blue chippers is just laughable. The last 5 year track record would say that CU is not ready, at this point. Frankly, probably the last 10 years.
 
vinniew_11 said:
I do. And to think that, at this point, we could recruit blue chippers is just laughable. The last 5 year track record would say that CU is not ready, at this point. Frankly, probably the last 10 years.
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Do you realize that expecting better recruiting is not the same as expecting blue chips? You keep arguing something no one outside of extremely dumb people are arguing.
 
Keeney and Walker definitely. Shaver or Brown could probably play if they show the ability to rush the passer. Lee could probably play too if he wins a return job.
 
Look, I love CU and like Coach Mac a lot. It's going to take a lot of solid classes, with a lot of guys contributing to turn this thing around. To think that we can go head-to-head recruiting at this point with Oregon, USC, UCLA, both AZ teams, Washington and Stanford is just not realistic. They are getting kids that are the true blue chippers. That will change. A group of talented, hard-workers can succeed. The good thing is that these young guys, including the Frosh and Sophomores that played this year are going to grow into the program together and build the cohesion that is needed.
 
I really like this class. We have a bunch of 3 stars most with other BCS offers and then some sleepers that HCMM is famous for. The past classes have been full of 2 stars and we were beating out D2 ad FCS schools for. They all seem like they are good in the classroom and when they talk about CU they understand the challenges and really want to be part of something special. After watching the games this year and seeing the huge jump in our fundamental skills, I am sure that we will be competitive in the PAC-12 in two years. HCMM might not be getting the "best guys" but there is no doubt he is getting the "right guys"

The only thing I worry about is other schools poaching the kids that HCMM discovered, because that is exactly what he is doing, "discovering" these kids. Late bloomers and kids with heart and a chip on their shoulders will win a lot of games We were not going to be able to get the 4 and 5 star guys anyway. This class absolutely confirms that we got the right guy in Boulder.
 
Look, you are arguing with some imaginary poster in this thread that expects this coaching staff to land lots of blue chippers. I think you are going to win this one.
 
Duff Man said:
Look, you are arguing with some imaginary poster in this thread that expects this coaching staff to land lots of blue chippers. I think you are going to win this one.
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Ok. I do think this is a solid class. Lot's of workman like players and some speed with Lee and the DBs. I like it.
 
Apsay: Arizona
Bennion: Utah
Brown: none
Dotson: ASU, Iowa St, Northwestern
Franke: Arizona
Gamboa: none
Jones: none
Kaiser: none
Keeney: none
Lee: none
Lopez: none
Mathewes: none
Miller: WSU
Rodriguez: ASU, Illinois, Kansas
Sanchez: none
Shaver: Utah
Smith: none
Watanabe: Utah
White: none
Witherspoon: UW

So, 11 total BCS offers among our 20 commits. 11 have no other BCS offers (11 out of 20 is not most btw, you could actually argue the opposite). Of those that don't have BCS offers, Lopez is the only one that I'd say plays at a school where recruiters don't check in regularly. If that's "good" in your book, then so be it.
 
Hard to coach size and speed. Seems to be a decent dash of both in this class. Frames to work with. I do feel confident the staff is busting their butt and trying to look for the best player they can at various positions. I also like the feedback from those visiting. Says something about the quality of who we are considering. I am solid with this class as it takes shape thus far. Let's see where it closes up.
 
I think when we look back this is going to be a decent class. Not a great one but a decent one.

That look back is going to be a ways down the road because a lot of these guys are developmental types. They aren't ready to play at the PAC level and won't be for a couple years in some cases.

I would much rather have the delayed gratification of developmental kids who stick around than the quick fix of bringing in a bunch of much higher rated kids who can't hack it academically or have other character problems that mean they aren't around in a couple years.

With that in mind if we are going to be competitive in the future we have to be more competitive in recruiting as well, bringing in guys who are more ready and/or have higher ceilings. I can understand the difficulty this year because in recent years we have been so pathetic that it is hard to get decent kids to even listen to us. The new facilities will help, continuing to beat the teams we should beat wil help even more. The next step is to be more competitive against the teams who are better than us reducing the beat down blow out losses.

We still have a few kids on the commit list who are legitimately 2* kids. A couple have been bumped up to 3* likely based on getting a BCS offer from CU. Others who were 3* kids from the start but who don't have other significant offers or who had other offers but of the back-up or whoever jumps first variety.

The other issue is that some people think getting highly rated guys means getting all 4* or 5* kids. While certainly these kids are the ones who have the highest ratings and generally the best offer list that doesn't mean that the rest of the kids above 2* are all about the same. Schools like Alabama, Florida State, etc. take a certain number of 3* kids every year and you will find some of these kids in their starting line-ups. The difference is that they are taking high 3* kids.

From Rivals website their numerical rankings system:

6.1 Franchise Player; considered one of the elite prospects in the country, generally among the nation's top 25 players overall; deemed to have excellent pro potential; high-major prospect
6.0-5.8 All-American Candidate; high-major prospect; considered one of the nation's top 300 prospects; deemed to have pro potential and ability to make an impact on college team
5.7-5.5 All-Region Selection; considered among the region's top prospects and among the top 750 or so prospects in the country; high-to-mid-major prospect; deemed to have pro potential and ability to make an impact on college team
5.4-5.0 Division I prospect; considered a mid-major prospect; deemed to have limited pro potential but definite Division I prospect; may be more of a role player
4.9 Sleeper; no Rivals.com expert knew much, if anything, about this player; a prospect that only a college coach really knew about

There is a big difference between the 3* guys who are rated 5.7 going to other schools and the 3* 5.5 guys that we are currently bringing in.

The ratings services are not the final answer to the question of who can and can't play. It is easy to find kids who never got rated and ended up in the NFL and other kids who were 4* and 5* kids who never got off the bench. What that doesn't say is that when you look at the overall picture the ratings correlate very well to on-field success. You will find exceptions but they are called exceptions for a reason.

What we need to see out of our program is a combination of finding exceptions but also an increasing level of competitiveness for those kids who are more highly rated and who are wanted by the other schools in our conference. This doesn't mean they have to be 5* kids but it does mean that we have to start getting more of the 5.6, 5.7 and up kids. If not we will remain a doormat no matter how well we are coached.
 
I know I was unrealistic when I started this post when I was hoping we would avoid the star discussions and the constant negativity some people have about our recruiting (and frequently about most things). (MTN Buff-not talking to you b/c I think your argument is reasoned)

I realize this is not a class that a mid tier BCS/Pac 12 team would be excited about.

Got news for you guys. We are not a mid-tier BCS team. I bet a lot of the classes HCMM pulled in were not even that exciting for the MWC or at least at a minimum were not amongst the top 1/2 or so of the MWC. But he managed to gradually (in just 3 yrs) improve that team. Yes this is the BCS and not the MWC.

But we went from 1-11 laughing stock of college football to 4-8 in his first year. If we see improvement on that record in 2014 with only 1 FCS, than we are going the right direction and HCMM& Co know how to get the best out of who they are able to get.

I mentioned this in another thread the other day. I saw an ESPN video about Cutcliff where he was talking about the strategy for taking Duke out of the basement. Main strategy-gradual improvement in the athletes you recruit--each year recruiting slightly better athletes. Those lead to more wins with good coaching which lead to better classes.
 
This class is extremely underwhelming. It should be possible for this school to pull in a BCS-average recruiting class despite our recent bout of losing. We set aside a ton of money for assistants and MM didn't use his resources is correctly. That is the biggest reason why our recruiting class this year is in the basement.
 
buffs04 said:
This class is extremely underwhelming. It should be possible for this school to pull in a BCS-average recruiting class despite our recent bout of losing. We set aside a ton of money for assistants and MM didn't use his resources is correctly. That is the biggest reason why our recruiting class this year is in the basement.
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Nah the biggest reason is the whole getting our asses kicked in conference play for 3 years straight and overall bad, bad teams for 8 years now. We haven't bad any new facilities to see until recently and we were awful...why would you come here if you could go to ASU, UW, etc.?
 
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