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PSU AD charged with perjury, ex-DC indicted on felony sex crimes against minors

PhillyBuff said:
In all seriousness...


I have had many friends and family members attend PSU. I am pretty sure most of you that know me on this board KNOW that I hate PSU just barely less than Nebraska, Miami, & Notre Dame.

Therefore, my view is slightly skewed....

However, what I am hearing from people connected is that there may be enough support to get Joe to resign, but what happened was that he was TOLD that the PSU legal team will handle it and he was not to do anything more other than what he just did to report the actions.

Because Joe is the face of the program, we may all want his head to roll. However, if your superiors tell you that your job is to run the football program and our job is this issue, well, then that is what you do.

I think the moral problem that some of us are having is that it may have been so obvious that this WAS NOT handled, that Joe should have spoken up.

It is clear that there are several villians here. 3 have been identified and are suffering the consequences. WE need to see what facts come out before others are condemned.

Didnt WE learn that lesson 10 years ago?
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If he was told that it was in the legal team's hands and that he was to stay out of it, I don't think he had much choice.
 
GoBuffs08 said:
Disagree.

Fans, boosters, etc will look the other way with hookers, payouts, and free cars. Raping 10-14 year old boys does not get forgotten. There might not be any NCAA sanctions, but if the reports coming out are true many, many people are complicit.

If I'm a PSU booster or advertise with PSU athletics no way would I give another dime until every last person with any knowledge of what happened and did nothing has resigned, fired or arrested.
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Completely agree.

Fans of programs around the office that get caught paying players just shrug it off and say "everyone does it, we just happened to get caught this time." No one is proud of a program that causes others to say "oh, you went to Pedophile State?" That hurts, especially once you become a parent.

No one wants to have that type of accociation.
 
DBT said:
If he was told that it was in the legal team's hands and that he was to stay out of it, I don't think he had much choice.
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Not true at all.

If I was at work and an employee reported to me of another employee molesting a child in the workplace after hours, I would definitely report it to the company. But it would be the 2nd call I'd make after the police.
 
Buffnik said:
Not true at all.

If I was at work and an employee reported to me of another employee molesting a child in the workplace after hours, I would definitely report it to the company. But it would be the 2nd call I'd make after the police.
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I see your point. I don't know enough of what Paterno knew and did not know and what he did with the information he had.
 
Buffnik said:
Not true at all.

If I was at work and an employee reported to me of another employee molesting a child in the workplace after hours, I would definitely report it to the company. But it would be the 2nd call I'd make after the police.
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+1. I also tell the legal team go **** yourself this guy is fired or put on leave pending investigation and I am going to tell everyone who will listen what this sick **** did.
 
DBT said:
I see your point. I don't know enough of what Paterno knew and did not know and what he did with the information he had.
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As I understand it, a grad assistant came in after hours. He was surprised to see lights still on so he went in the locker room. He saw Sandusky fooling around with a 10 year old boy in the shower. The GA reported it to Paterno the next day. Paterno then passed it on to the AD. No police report was ever filed. The GA became a full-time PSU coach. Sandusky quietly retired at 55 years old when the season was over.
 
I agree with Nik. You report to your supervisor, if nothing happens and Mr. Happy Pants is still running around with young boys, I am on the phone to the cops within a couple of days. Do you really think JoePa thought, "Well, one my GA's saw him sodomizing a ten year old boy in the showers, and the AD is handling it. But there is the old perv rollicking free and easy without so much as a how do you do, everything must just be peachy". It's not like Penn St. would fire Joe Pa for turning in a child molester. Much more likely JoePa was glad he could hide behind the fig leaf of telling the AD, so his buddy could go do what he was going to do and Joe Pa could do his Sgt. Schultz routine...he is a POS in my book.
 
Buffnik said:
Not true at all.

If I was at work and an employee reported to me of another employee molesting a child in the workplace after hours, I would definitely report it to the company. But it would be the 2nd call I'd make after the police.
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That all turns on what Mike McQueery told Joe Paterno and what PSU policies are. It wasn't Joe that witnessed a possible crime, it was someone on his staff. It can be debatable what to do here and I know what I would do in this situation. However I would have to have more facts before I can really judge if Joe was morally wrong.

I was involved in a situation as a chaperone in charge of a delegation that my coach was accused of inappropriately touching a 15 year old. It was not easy to handle but you have to weigh the possibility that these allegations are false. False allegations have consequences as well.
 
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leftybuff said:
I agree with Nik. You report to your supervisor, if nothing happens and Mr. Happy Pants is still running around with young boys, I am on the phone to the cops within a couple of days. Do you really think JoePa thought, "Well, one my GA's saw him sodomizing a ten year old boy in the showers, and the AD is handling it. But there is the old perv rollicking free and easy without so much as a how do you do, everything must just be peachy". It's not like Penn St. would fire Joe Pa for turning in a child molester. Much more likely JoePa was glad he could hide behind the fig leaf of telling the AD, so his buddy could go do what he was going to do and Joe Pa could do his Sgt. Schultz routine...he is a POS in my book.
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If this is true... I will agree with you. I am not willing to accept those set of facts yet.
 
PhillyBuff said:
That all turns on what Mike McQueery told Joe Paterno and what PSU policies are. It wasn't Joe that witnessed a possible crime, it was someone on his staff. It can be debatable what to do here and I know what I would do in this situation, but what Joe did has to have more facts before I can really judge if he was morally wrong.

I was involved in a situation as a chaperone in charge of a delegation that my coach was accused of inappropriately touching a 15 year old. It was not easy to handle but you have to weigh the possibility that these allegations are false. False allegations have consequences as well.
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Do you think that the folks at PSU thought the allegations were false? Sandusky retired at 55 years old when the season was over.
 
Buffnik said:
Do you think that the folks at PSU thought the allegations were false? Sandusky retired at 55 years old when the season was over.
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I beleive that they wanted to think that they were false.

I do not know enough here yet.

Reading what KKKeenan said about our program in 2001, you would have thought the worst. What has come out so far about this incident has been DA material.
 
PSU hosts the Nubs Saturday, televised on ESPN I think. Will the PSU fan base show up? Will there be sponsor signage missing inside the stadium? Will the announcers be muzzled about talking about the scandal? Should be interesting.
 
Buffnik said:
As I understand it, a grad assistant came in after hours. He was surprised to see lights still on so he went in the locker room. He saw Sandusky fooling around with a 10 year old boy in the shower. The GA reported it to Paterno the next day. Paterno then passed it on to the AD. No police report was ever filed. The GA became a full-time PSU coach. Sandusky quietly retired at 55 years old when the season was over.
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Sandusky retired at 1999, while the GA reported that on 2002, based on what I read. Am I missing something here?
 
My impression would be that JoePa didn't want to have to explain why he had this slimebucket on his staff. He hoped that somehow it would just go away and nobody would ever put it into the media where he would have to deal with the media.
 
cnbuff410 said:
Sandusky retired at 1999, while the GA reported that on 2002, based on what I read. Am I missing something here?
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Your timeline is exactly why I can't really condemn anyone else right now except the 3 people named. I need to understand more....
 
PhillyBuff said:
If this is true... I will agree with you. I am not willing to accept those set of facts yet.
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I agree the matter is going to have to be resolved in Court, by plea or guilty verdict, but reading the Grand Jury report, there are eyeball witnesses and victims of actual crimes ready to testify...even Joe Pa will be taking the stand. In the court of public opinion, the verdict is in. We will probably never know for sure, but Joe Pa's testimony may just be a deal to keep him from being charged as an accessory after the fact...think about it.
 
cnbuff410 said:
Sandusky retired at 1999, while the GA reported that on 2002, based on what I read. Am I missing something here?
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My bad. WTF was Sandusky doing there in 2002?

I was referring to a 1998 incident I read about this morning. There may be some confusion between what the 1998 incident was and what happened in 2002.

Allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while Sandusky was still employed by Penn State. That incident allegedly occurred in a shower at Penn State's on-campus football facility. No charges were filed.

-and-

In 1999, Penn State was rid of Sandusky. His rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. To be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.
If Paterno and Penn State knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating Sandusky's untroubled retirement - are Paterno and Penn State responsible for untoward acts since committed by Sandusky?
This is far from an outrageous hypothesis, especially given the convenient timeline.
Initially accused in 1998. Retires in 1999. Never coaches college football again. Sandusky was very successful at what he did. The architect of Linebacker U. Helped win national championships in 1982 and 1986. Recognized as college football's top assistant in 1986 and 1999.
Never any stories about Sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. Never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.

http://www.timesonline.com/columnis...cle_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html
 
Sandusky had been given a permanent office in the football building as part of his retirement package.
 
cnbuff410 said:
Sandusky retired at 1999, while the GA reported that on 2002, based on what I read. Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...

PhillyBuff said:
Your timeline is exactly why I can't really condemn anyone else right now except the 3 people named. I need to understand more....
Click to expand...

The way I understand it, there were allegations in 1998 that were investigated by the PSU police (I know there was a situation where a janitor walked in on Sandusky sucking off a young boy up against a wall - not sure if that was this one, though). No charges were filed, but Sandusky suddenly retired at 55 in 1999. Obviously we don't know, but that sure smells like he was fired, but allowed to resign and retain all on-campus privileges.

2002, a grad assistant caught Sandusky in the showers late at night with a 10 year old boy. Some reports say he observed Sandusky having anal sex with the boy, but not every report mentions that, so take it for what it's worth. He told Paterno, Paterno told the AD. Nobody at PSU contacted the police, nothing ever happened legally. PSU's response was to tell Sandusky he could no longer bring kids on campus. They didn't stop him from molesting, but they did stop him from doing it on their property. Another young man has alleged that Sandusky molested him in 2005, but PSU doesn't seem to be involved in that one, other than in helping Sandusky remain on the streets at that point.

I totally agree with you that we, of all people, should be careful of jumping to conclusions. But the eyewitness statements here, and the actions that followed them, are pretty hard to dismiss. At this point, Sandusky seems to be the only person saying that nothing happened, with a great deal of evidence that something did. My problem with JoePa is that 1) he is now claiming to be "shocked" by this, when he was given eyewitness evidence almost 10 years ago. That doesn't give him much credibility. And 2) that JoePa stayed silent after telling his supervisors. He's JoePa - if he pressured the higher ups to take action, they would have. If he had gone to the police and reported this, they would not have fired him. In his position, if there were any legal action or investigation happening, he would have known. He knew there wasn't. He knew there was a child molester running a children's charity in their community, and he did and said nothing for a decade. Maybe you can find the moral high ground in that, but I can't.
 
Please tell me his office provided at retirement didn't have a private shower....
 
Well, in light of Junction's long post, and Boulder Buffs brief one, you can be damn sure PSU and JoePa are culpable in this whole thing (at least in my mind). This is ridiculous. Someone should have been on the phone to real cops, not campus police, the media and anyone else who will listen. This guy should have been pegged for what he is, a piece of **** molester.
 
Junction said:
The way I understand it, there were allegations in 1998 that were investigated by the PSU police (I know there was a situation where a janitor walked in on Sandusky sucking off a young boy up against a wall - not sure if that was this one, though). No charges were filed, but Sandusky suddenly retired at 55 in 1999. Obviously we don't know, but that sure smells like he was fired, but allowed to resign and retain all on-campus privileges.

2002, a grad assistant caught Sandusky in the showers late at night with a 10 year old boy. Some reports say he observed Sandusky having anal sex with the boy, but not every report mentions that, so take it for what it's worth. He told Paterno, Paterno told the AD. Nobody at PSU contacted the police, nothing ever happened legally. PSU's response was to tell Sandusky he could no longer bring kids on campus. They didn't stop him from molesting, but they did stop him from doing it on their property. Another young man has alleged that Sandusky molested him in 2005, but PSU doesn't seem to be involved in that one, other than in helping Sandusky remain on the streets at that point.

I totally agree with you that we, of all people, should be careful of jumping to conclusions. But the eyewitness statements here, and the actions that followed them, are pretty hard to dismiss. At this point, Sandusky seems to be the only person saying that nothing happened, with a great deal of evidence that something did. My problem with JoePa is that 1) he is now claiming to be "shocked" by this, when he was given eyewitness evidence almost 10 years ago. That doesn't give him much credibility. And 2) that JoePa stayed silent after telling his supervisors. He's JoePa - if he pressured the higher ups to take action, they would have. If he had gone to the police and reported this, they would not have fired him. In his position, if there were any legal action or investigation happening, he would have known. He knew there wasn't. He knew there was a child molester running a children's charity in their community, and he did and said nothing for a decade. Maybe you can find the moral high ground in that, but I can't.
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Junction...

No one can ever question your whereabouts since 2005..... you have had 35,000 posts and clearly no time for anything else....
 
PhillyBuff said:
Junction...

No one can ever question your whereabouts since 2005..... you have had 35,000 posts and clearly no time for anything else....
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You, on the other hand, were on the east coast and disappearing from here for long stretches..... hmmmm...
 
Junction said:
The way I understand it, there were allegations in 1998 that were investigated by the PSU police (I know there was a situation where a janitor walked in on Sandusky sucking off a young boy up against a wall - not sure if that was this one, though). No charges were filed, but Sandusky suddenly retired at 55 in 1999. Obviously we don't know, but that sure smells like he was fired, but allowed to resign and retain all on-campus privileges.

2002, a grad assistant caught Sandusky in the showers late at night with a 10 year old boy. Some reports say he observed Sandusky having anal sex with the boy, but not every report mentions that, so take it for what it's worth. He told Paterno, Paterno told the AD. Nobody at PSU contacted the police, nothing ever happened legally. PSU's response was to tell Sandusky he could no longer bring kids on campus. They didn't stop him from molesting, but they did stop him from doing it on their property. Another young man has alleged that Sandusky molested him in 2005, but PSU doesn't seem to be involved in that one, other than in helping Sandusky remain on the streets at that point.

I totally agree with you that we, of all people, should be careful of jumping to conclusions. But the eyewitness statements here, and the actions that followed them, are pretty hard to dismiss. At this point, Sandusky seems to be the only person saying that nothing happened, with a great deal of evidence that something did. My problem with JoePa is that 1) he is now claiming to be "shocked" by this, when he was given eyewitness evidence almost 10 years ago. That doesn't give him much credibility. And 2) that JoePa stayed silent after telling his supervisors. He's JoePa - if he pressured the higher ups to take action, they would have. If he had gone to the police and reported this, they would not have fired him. In his position, if there were any legal action or investigation happening, he would have known. He knew there wasn't. He knew there was a child molester running a children's charity in their community, and he did and said nothing for a decade. Maybe you can find the moral high ground in that, but I can't.
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I am already condemning Curley (AD), Schultz (asst Prez), and Sandusky.

I just dont know enough to blame Spanier (which I am real close to calling for his head) and Paterno.

That is where I am today. Tomorrow I may be on the fire Paterno train.

I am still on the vote out KKKeenan train.

I am listening to the DA now.... she is saying some powerful ****....
 
I just heard the DA and former PA State Police Commissioner....

This is bad. They basically are asking for 2 victims to come forward that their case is substantiated. He also implied PSU had no business handling this themselves and they actually made their investigation MORE DIFFICULT.

They are going after Curley and Schultz.

The DA pretty much cleared Paterno LEGALLY..... she did expound upon the differece between legal guilt and moral guilt.
 
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