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Rank (or group) the Pac-12 head coaches

Duff Man

Duff Man

Club Member
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Ranking 1-12 seems difficult, so group them if you want. Mine:

Chris Petersen
David Shaw
Kyle Wittingham

Mike MacIntyre
Mike Leach
Gary Andersen

Rich Rodriguez

Jim Mora
Sonny Dykes
Todd Graham

Leaving out Helton and Taggart for the moment due to small sample size in the Pac-12.
 
Last edited:
Basically right, but I think you should put Helton in with the 2d group at this point. He did beat all of them this year (I think).
 
Duff Man said:
Ranking 1-12 seems difficult, so group the if want. Mine:

Chris Petersen
David Shaw
Kyle Wittingham

Mike MacIntyre
Mike Leach
Gary Andersen

Rich Rodriguez

Jim Mora
Sonny Dykes
Todd Graham

Leaving out Helton and Taggart for the moment due to small sample size in the Pac-12.
Click to expand...
I respect your opinion, so I ask, what keeps MM out of the top group given what he has accomplished with players that were largely graded... shall we say... very average?

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
On Rodriguez, I think he had his team playing hard in a lost season and managed to find a good QB fit for his system in the process. The other guys below him have been more exposed than him IMO.

On MacIntyre, consistent winning seasons will move him up. Not enough data to know if he can sustain success right now.
 
4DemBuffs said:
I respect your opinion, so I ask, what keeps MM out of the top group given what he has accomplished with players that were largely graded... shall we say... very average?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...
I'm not Duff (thank goodness for both of us), but these come to mind:

  • pac 12 record
  • initial staff decisions
  • never won a P12 championship or a major bowl;
  • hasn't proven he can sustain success, especially without JL.
Basically, a clear step below the first group, which, while they may not be perfect, have less warts.
 
Group 1: Peterson HCMM

Group 2 Willingham Shaw (Helton)

Group 3 Leach Anderson (Taggart)

Group 4 Dykes Rich Rod

Group 5 Graham Mora
 
It's also interesting to compare the top 3 in the Pac-12 to the other conferences:

Big-10: Meyer, Harbaugh and Dantonio
Sec: Saban, Malzahn and Dan Mullen?
Big-12: Stoops, Patterson and Gundy?
ACC: Fisher, Sweeney and Cutcliffe?

I actually think Petersen, Shaw and Wittingham compare very favorably to those and looking at the list just now it is surprising how disappointing the SEC looks after this last season.
 
Darth Snow said:
I'm not Duff (thank goodness for both of us), but these come to mind:

  • pac 12 record
  • initial staff decisions
  • never won a P12 championship or a major bowl;
  • hasn't proven he can sustain success, especially without JL.
Basically, a clear step below the first group, which, while they may not be perfect, have less warts.
Click to expand...
I think that's a fair assessment and valid points. Thanks.

I would probably put MM in the top group given what he did this year, but I get why others wouldn't.
 
Darth Snow said:
I'm not Duff (thank goodness for both of us), but these come to mind:

  • pac 12 record
  • initial staff decisions
  • never won a P12 championship or a major bowl;
  • hasn't proven he can sustain success, especially without JL.
Basically, a clear step below the first group, which, while they may not be perfect, have less warts.
Click to expand...
I'd bump Willingham into the top of tier two for some of his flaws. His personality issues and revolving door of Offensive coordinators have held Utah back offensively IMHO.
 
Duff Man said:
Ranking 1-12 seems difficult, so group the if want. Mine:

Chris Petersen
David Shaw
Kyle Wittingham

Mike MacIntyre
Mike Leach
Gary Andersen

Rich Rodriguez

Jim Mora
Sonny Dykes
Todd Graham

Leaving out Helton and Taggart for the moment due to small sample size in the Pac-12.
Click to expand...
Obvious with Taggart, but I don't know if I think you can include Andersen (especially including him in the above average group) and leave out Helton. Andersen walked into a ****ty situation, but are we really sure he has them pointing up yet?

I would agree with MacIntyre in the second group - until he proves he can consistently win, I'd put him where you have him. But, next year or the year after, I think he'll belong in the first group.

Leach, OTOH, I think will always be in the second group. Consistency never has been his strong suit.

Here's where I would put it:
Petersen
Wittingham
Shaw

MacIntyre (Could move up with 2017 winning season)
Leach
Helton (Could move up unless USC ****s the bed for part of 2017 - a very real possibility)

Andersen (Could move up with a winning season)
Rodriguez

Mora
Dykes
Graham

Although I would be fine with not ranking Helton or Andersen quite yet...
 
J.R. Ewing said:
I'd bump Willingham into the top of tier two for some of his flaws. His personality issues and revolving door of Offensive coordinators have held Utah back offensively IMHO.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, and I wouldn't quibble. I kept him up there for how well he's managed the jump to P5 competition despite those issues and the sustained success he's had despite never quite getting his team over the hump.
 
Chris Petersen
David Shaw
Kyle Wittingham

Mike MacIntyre

Gary Andersen
Mike Leach

Rich Rodriguez
Jim Mora
Sonny Dykes
Todd Graham

Largely agree with Duff. Top three have made their teams about as good as you can expect, given the resources.
Mike MacIntyre has shown the most dramatic turnaround, but not yet enough wins to get to the next level.
Gary Anderson, same as MacIntyre, but earlier in the process.
Mike Leach, he's had 2 good years in a row, but before that, nothing of note. Will believe it when Falk is gone and he's still winning.

Bottom 4 - Mora can't seem to get his team on the same page. The other three can't spell defense.
 
onealcd said:
Andersen is not getting enough love in this conversation. He built Utah St. from nothing and did well at Wisconsin. If he turns around OSU that is another huge accomplishment.
Click to expand...
But will all of that translate in the P12?

As a P12 coach, he still has to show me.

I think it's likely he will show - but he started from square one in P12.
 
Darth Snow said:
I'm not Duff (thank goodness for both of us), but these come to mind:

  • pac 12 record
  • initial staff decisions
  • never won a P12 championship or a major bowl;
  • hasn't proven he can sustain success, especially without JL.
Basically, a clear step below the first group, which, while they may not be perfect, have less warts.
Click to expand...

1 HCMM was competitive for almost two years straight, with a FCS roster
2. He brought a staff with him from SJSU that played Stanford tougher than almost anyone in the country.
3. he has only been a HC for 7 years
4. No coach can be great without great assistants
 
SBP said:
1 HCMM was competitive for almost two years straight, with a FCS roster
2. He brought a staff with him from SJSU that played Stanford tougher than almost anyone in the country.
3. he has only been a HC for 7 years
4. No coach can be great without great assistants
Click to expand...
sarcasm?
 
I am not sure Wittingham is in that first group. He is a very good coach, but he seems to be complete jackass. Its a problem when you are replacing coordinators every year, IMO. Otherwise, I like the lists from above. I think Clay Helton could be in that first group. USC always has talent and I think he has found a way to maximize that.
 
skibum said:
But will all of that translate in the P12?
.
Click to expand...

Can we stop with that translation b.s.? We heard that about MacIntyre for 3 years. It's not an argument, unless you're talking about PeeWee or a HS coach.
You have to recruit at Utah State, you have to identify, and develop talent. You have to keep them on campus. you have to keep them eligible and out of jail.

It's the exact same thing. Great CFB coaches can do it.
 
patebuff said:
I think Clay Helton could be in that first group. USC always has talent and I think he has found a way to maximize that.
Click to expand...

The only thing keeping Clay off that list is he is doing it with someone else's recruits. I fully expect he will recruit fine at USC (hard not to). And he's not overcome by his own feelings of self-worth (Mora, Richrod, Graham, Dykes)....
 
buffaholic said:
Interesting that the bigger the ego, the closer to the bottom they are....
Click to expand...
Sort of true. Harbaugh, Urban, and Saban may have the biggest egos in college football. So it may be the biggest egos without earning it put you at the bottom.
 
buffaholic said:
Can we stop with that translation b.s.? We heard that about MacIntyre for 3 years. It's not an argument, unless you're talking about PeeWee or a HS coach.
You have to recruit at Utah State, you have to identify, and develop talent. You have to keep them on campus. you have to keep them eligible and out of jail.

It's the exact same thing. Great CFB coaches can do it.
Click to expand...
Got it.

Every coach that does well at a lower level can do it at the P5 level. It's the exact same thing.

And every coach that does well at one P5 school/conference will do well at another P5 school/conference. It's the exact same thing.
 
skibum said:
Got it.

Every coach that does well at a lower level can do it at the P5 level. It's the exact same thing.

And every coach that does well at one P5 school/conference will do well at another P5 school/conference. It's the exact same thing.
Click to expand...

There's no better indicator. I wouldn't go so far as to use "every" - that was you.

If a coach has sustained success (not just the first couple years with what he inherited), it's a damn good indicator. I don't think it's coincidental that Petersen, MacIntyre, and Anderson won at lower levels. The same is true with Wyoming coach. Even guys like Jim Leavitt (USF), Leach (TTU) and Whittingham (Utah in MWC) proved it on lesser stages.
 
buffaholic said:
There's no better indicator. I wouldn't go so far as to use "every" - that was you.

If a coach has sustained success (not just the first couple years with what he inherited), it's a damn good indicator. I don't think it's coincidental that Petersen, MacIntyre, and Anderson won at lower levels. The same is true with Wyoming coach. Even guys like Jim Leavitt (USF), Leach (TTU) and Whittingham (Utah in MWC) proved it on lesser stages.
Click to expand...
I have the easiest example in the world to disprove your assertion, but I'm not going to use it.

What I will say is that there is a decent level of confirmation bias when discussing this. We tend not to remember the names of coaches that perform at an average to poor level once they get to the big stage. We remember big failures and big winners - but even that is biased towards winners. You're more likely to remember coaches that perform well than ones that wash out in a couple seasons - unless the failure is at your school.

You're right, there might not be a better indicator, but that doesn't mean it's a good indicator. I'm always going to take a "show me" attitude whenever coaches switch conferences/schools - even if it's a "lateral" move, but especially when it is also a step up to a higher level of competition.
 
skibum said:
I have the easiest example in the world to disprove your assertion, but I'm not going to use it.

What I will say is that there is a decent level of confirmation bias when discussing this. We tend not to remember the names of coaches that perform at an average to poor level once they get to the big stage. We remember big failures and big winners - but even that is biased towards winners. You're more likely to remember coaches that perform well than ones that wash out in a couple seasons - unless the failure is at your school.

You're right, there might not be a better indicator, but that doesn't mean it's a good indicator. I'm always going to take a "show me" attitude whenever coaches switch conferences/schools - even if it's a "lateral" move, but especially when it is also a step up to a higher level of competition.
Click to expand...

Here's a good example. Remember when Steve Kragthorpe was one of the hottest names among young coaches? Then he went from Tulsa to Louisville. I don't think he's even on a staff any more after that disaster.
 
Shaw's the best.

After that, Petersen and Willingham.

Below him, everyone has had his good and bad seasons. Stock's going up with MacIntyre and Leach. Wait and see with Anderson. Going down with Mora, Graham and Rodriguez. Dykes isn't good enough for P5. We'll find out on Helton, but signs are very positive. Taggart is a total wildcard.
 
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