CitizenKane
Well-Known Member
Prior to the CSU VS CU football game, I was listening to several local sports radio stations and heard something presented as fact that really has no factual basis. The ‘fact’ that was presented was that CU and CSU were essentially equivalent institutions of higher education. I was willing to let it go, but I heard this AGAIN while listening to a group of three high school principals speak!!! The basis for this statement was that the acceptance rates for each institution were nearly the same (80% for CU and 81% for CSU). However, acceptance rates don’t begin to tell the tale of the difference between the Universities. Here are more statistics illustrate the differences:
1. Rank of the University compared to others in the entire world
CU: 116
CSU: Somewhere between 300-350.
CSU is ranked low enough that ranking entities won’t differentiate them from other institutions. It simply isn’t worth their time.
2.
a. STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) students:
CU: 36%
CSU: 25%
b. STEM Research rankings
CU: Ranked 24th overall
CSU: Not deemed worthy of any ranking
c. Number of Nobel Prize Laureates
CU: 5
CSU: 0
What a, b and c point out is that the average student that would apply for CU wouldn’t even consider applying for CSU as CSU just doesn’t offer the programs and opportunities that these students are seeking.
3. Candidate for admission profile:
a. Average admission scores:
CU: 3.65 GPA, 27 ACT and 1250 ACT
CSU: 3.61 GPA, 25 ACT and 1215 ACT
Sound similar, don’t they?
b. Average number of science classes completed in high school by admission candidates:
CU: 8
CSU: 6
c. Average number of math classes complete in high school by admission candidates:
CU: 4
CSU: 3
d. Average number of AP (college credit) classes completed in high school by admission candidates:
CU: 7
CSU: 3
What a. through d. above illustrates is that while the GPA of the two schools appears similar, the CU candidates have earned this GPA while taking a significantly more difficult high school course work. In point of fact, the average CSU admissions candidate hasn’t even completed enough math classes to be eligible for admissions to many CU programs. Since all of this is published information, the CSU candidates typically just don’t apply to CU knowing they will be rejected.
4. Rank by average salary after graduation and throughout career:
CU: 117
CSU: 377
I don’t know about anyone else, but I tend to think, “Who cares where some magazine ranks a college, show me what the market thinks about the school.” In other words, show me the money!! On average a CU graduate will make $434,250 more over the course of a 30-year career than a CSU graduate. Nothing illustrates the difference between these two institutions better than this salary differential. Of note here is that CU’s ranking is basically the same as in item 1. above while the market thinks so little of CSU that it’s ranking slips between 27 and 77 spots.
To say these two institutions are roughly equivalent is something like saying a VW Beetle is as good as a Porsche Cayenne. No, neither is the best in the world and yes both get you from point a to point b…but there is a giant chasm that separates the two. Perpetrating the false claim that they are roughly equivalent is a disservice to young impressionable middle and high school students who are contemplating what they would like to do with their lives. Quite literally, if some poor child believed what was espoused on the radio and is being bantered about in public now, they would be walking away from $434,250 dollars!!
The above was only an academic comparison of the Universities. We certainly could do the same for the athletics programs. Though, the difference remains equally as large:
1. National Championships all varsity sports:
CU: 28
CSU: 0
2. National Championships club sports:
CU: CU refuses to count these, though they've won the majority of cycling championships since it became a club sport.
CSU: 16
3. National Football Championships
CU: 1
CSU: 0
4. National Football Championship appearances
CU: 2
CSU: 0
5. Football all time wins rank:
CU: 16th
CSU: Not in the top 100
6. Football rank by all-time winning percentage:
CU: 22
CSU: Not ranked in the top 100
7. Number of Varsity sports
CU: 17
CSU: 15
8. Number of conference championships in football
CU: 32
CSU: 15
9. Number of bowl appearance
CU: 28
CSU: 16
10. Number of basketball conference championships
CU: 10
CSU: 9
11. National Championship Appearances, men’s basketball
CU: 2
CSU: 0
12. Number of men’s basketball national titles
CU: 1 (NIT 1940, which was more prestigious than the NCAA at the time)
CSU: 0
13. Final four men’s basketball appearances:
CU: 3
CSU: 0
14. Number of football players that played in the NFL:
CU: 287
CSU: 106
15. Number of players drafted by the NBA:
CU: 37
CSU: 22
16. Average attendance football home games (not including Rocky Mountain show down on neutral sites)
CU: 46,609 (2016) 39,389 (2015) 45,236 (2012) 50,509 (2007)
CSU: 27,600 (2016) 24,916 (2015) 19,250 (2012) 21,793 (2007)
17. Average attendance basketball
CU: 8,540 (2015-16) 9,135 (2014-15) 10,392 (2012-13) 7,538 (2009-10)
CSU: 3,853 (2015-16) 4,854 (2014-15) 5,440 (2012-13) 3,392 (2009-10)
18. AD budget
CU: Revenues 77,276,889 Expenses 74,733,332 16% allocated from University
CSU: Revenues 39,767,363 Expenses 40,699,254 56% allocated from University
What do numbers 1-18 show us? Well, they show us that CSU is costing the tax payers $22,791,582 a year while the CU program is costing tax payers $12,364,302 a year…and for that extra ten million dollars the tax payers get a program that can’t draw attendance (Averages about half of what CU averages in both of the revenue producing sports), can’t consistently place players at the next level (About half the number of pro players as CU), doesn’t win with any consistency and produces no national championships (Of note, CSU also has a lower graduation rate among its athletes). Further, because CU draws so many more people to their games and spends so much more money, they have a much greater impact on the State’s economy, in fact the CU AD’s impact on the State of Colorado economy is more than 300% greater than the impact of the CSU AD. From a purely budgetary standpoint, the investment in CU is significantly better for the State and for tax payers than the investment in CSU. In all honesty, I can't imagine why the elected officials of this State let CSU continue down this harmful and wasteful path and don't demand the immediate termination of all D1 athletics at CSU.
The fact that even local residents and alumni refuse to support CSU should tell everyone where CSU belongs in the college football pecking order. They are a lower tier/borderline G5 school. Sure you may think otherwise, but if you would like to pull all these stats for CSU Pueblo, a D-II school, you will find that CSU-Pueblo compares quite favorably against CSU (FoCo) and that its ROI is significantly better than CSU (FoCo).
Nothing about CSU is on par with the University of Colorado. Not academically and certainly not athletically. We, the hard working tax payers of the State of Colorado, should not allow people to get away with saying that the two Universities are even remotely similar. About the only way to permanently get rid of such moronic comparisons is to end any and all sports competitions against CSU. Then the local media could evaluate each school on its own merit instead of insisting on making crap up to try and create a false rivalry. Such a perception devalues the University of Colorado and puts the investment into the athletic program and the institution in jeopardy. Rick George I hope you're listening.
1. Rank of the University compared to others in the entire world
CU: 116
CSU: Somewhere between 300-350.
CSU is ranked low enough that ranking entities won’t differentiate them from other institutions. It simply isn’t worth their time.
2.
a. STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) students:
CU: 36%
CSU: 25%
b. STEM Research rankings
CU: Ranked 24th overall
CSU: Not deemed worthy of any ranking
c. Number of Nobel Prize Laureates
CU: 5
CSU: 0
What a, b and c point out is that the average student that would apply for CU wouldn’t even consider applying for CSU as CSU just doesn’t offer the programs and opportunities that these students are seeking.
3. Candidate for admission profile:
a. Average admission scores:
CU: 3.65 GPA, 27 ACT and 1250 ACT
CSU: 3.61 GPA, 25 ACT and 1215 ACT
Sound similar, don’t they?
b. Average number of science classes completed in high school by admission candidates:
CU: 8
CSU: 6
c. Average number of math classes complete in high school by admission candidates:
CU: 4
CSU: 3
d. Average number of AP (college credit) classes completed in high school by admission candidates:
CU: 7
CSU: 3
What a. through d. above illustrates is that while the GPA of the two schools appears similar, the CU candidates have earned this GPA while taking a significantly more difficult high school course work. In point of fact, the average CSU admissions candidate hasn’t even completed enough math classes to be eligible for admissions to many CU programs. Since all of this is published information, the CSU candidates typically just don’t apply to CU knowing they will be rejected.
4. Rank by average salary after graduation and throughout career:
CU: 117
CSU: 377
I don’t know about anyone else, but I tend to think, “Who cares where some magazine ranks a college, show me what the market thinks about the school.” In other words, show me the money!! On average a CU graduate will make $434,250 more over the course of a 30-year career than a CSU graduate. Nothing illustrates the difference between these two institutions better than this salary differential. Of note here is that CU’s ranking is basically the same as in item 1. above while the market thinks so little of CSU that it’s ranking slips between 27 and 77 spots.
To say these two institutions are roughly equivalent is something like saying a VW Beetle is as good as a Porsche Cayenne. No, neither is the best in the world and yes both get you from point a to point b…but there is a giant chasm that separates the two. Perpetrating the false claim that they are roughly equivalent is a disservice to young impressionable middle and high school students who are contemplating what they would like to do with their lives. Quite literally, if some poor child believed what was espoused on the radio and is being bantered about in public now, they would be walking away from $434,250 dollars!!
The above was only an academic comparison of the Universities. We certainly could do the same for the athletics programs. Though, the difference remains equally as large:
1. National Championships all varsity sports:
CU: 28
CSU: 0
2. National Championships club sports:
CU: CU refuses to count these, though they've won the majority of cycling championships since it became a club sport.
CSU: 16
3. National Football Championships
CU: 1
CSU: 0
4. National Football Championship appearances
CU: 2
CSU: 0
5. Football all time wins rank:
CU: 16th
CSU: Not in the top 100
6. Football rank by all-time winning percentage:
CU: 22
CSU: Not ranked in the top 100
7. Number of Varsity sports
CU: 17
CSU: 15
8. Number of conference championships in football
CU: 32
CSU: 15
9. Number of bowl appearance
CU: 28
CSU: 16
10. Number of basketball conference championships
CU: 10
CSU: 9
11. National Championship Appearances, men’s basketball
CU: 2
CSU: 0
12. Number of men’s basketball national titles
CU: 1 (NIT 1940, which was more prestigious than the NCAA at the time)
CSU: 0
13. Final four men’s basketball appearances:
CU: 3
CSU: 0
14. Number of football players that played in the NFL:
CU: 287
CSU: 106
15. Number of players drafted by the NBA:
CU: 37
CSU: 22
16. Average attendance football home games (not including Rocky Mountain show down on neutral sites)
CU: 46,609 (2016) 39,389 (2015) 45,236 (2012) 50,509 (2007)
CSU: 27,600 (2016) 24,916 (2015) 19,250 (2012) 21,793 (2007)
17. Average attendance basketball
CU: 8,540 (2015-16) 9,135 (2014-15) 10,392 (2012-13) 7,538 (2009-10)
CSU: 3,853 (2015-16) 4,854 (2014-15) 5,440 (2012-13) 3,392 (2009-10)
18. AD budget
CU: Revenues 77,276,889 Expenses 74,733,332 16% allocated from University
CSU: Revenues 39,767,363 Expenses 40,699,254 56% allocated from University
What do numbers 1-18 show us? Well, they show us that CSU is costing the tax payers $22,791,582 a year while the CU program is costing tax payers $12,364,302 a year…and for that extra ten million dollars the tax payers get a program that can’t draw attendance (Averages about half of what CU averages in both of the revenue producing sports), can’t consistently place players at the next level (About half the number of pro players as CU), doesn’t win with any consistency and produces no national championships (Of note, CSU also has a lower graduation rate among its athletes). Further, because CU draws so many more people to their games and spends so much more money, they have a much greater impact on the State’s economy, in fact the CU AD’s impact on the State of Colorado economy is more than 300% greater than the impact of the CSU AD. From a purely budgetary standpoint, the investment in CU is significantly better for the State and for tax payers than the investment in CSU. In all honesty, I can't imagine why the elected officials of this State let CSU continue down this harmful and wasteful path and don't demand the immediate termination of all D1 athletics at CSU.
The fact that even local residents and alumni refuse to support CSU should tell everyone where CSU belongs in the college football pecking order. They are a lower tier/borderline G5 school. Sure you may think otherwise, but if you would like to pull all these stats for CSU Pueblo, a D-II school, you will find that CSU-Pueblo compares quite favorably against CSU (FoCo) and that its ROI is significantly better than CSU (FoCo).
Nothing about CSU is on par with the University of Colorado. Not academically and certainly not athletically. We, the hard working tax payers of the State of Colorado, should not allow people to get away with saying that the two Universities are even remotely similar. About the only way to permanently get rid of such moronic comparisons is to end any and all sports competitions against CSU. Then the local media could evaluate each school on its own merit instead of insisting on making crap up to try and create a false rivalry. Such a perception devalues the University of Colorado and puts the investment into the athletic program and the institution in jeopardy. Rick George I hope you're listening.
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