Rant of the day: Time to end any and all CU VS CSU sports competitions

[dyemeduke]

Sorry for going Mtn a little bit here: Some criticisms of CU by CSU fans should be received with open ears, as they can be fair, albeit not to the extremes that their fans presume them to be. We as a whole can be assholes, entitled and spoiled, and also arrogant in relating to CSU. Now, are CSU fans assholes, entitled, and arrogant when relating to CU, sure, but that doesn't negate the truth about us when viewed through a critical lense.

Along that line of thought, one of my bigger pet peeves with the CSM and DU are similar criticisms. I feel that CSM students consider themselves intellectually superior, when some of the WORST engineers I've worked with are CSM grads. I know too many plain/average students that have gone there and succeeded to consider CSM head and shoulders above CU in engineering. I will concede that there is a higher expectation for CSM kids as a whole compared to CU as a whole, but this arrogance that CSM kids have is rather aggravating. The same with DU. DU is a fine place to learn, but having wealthier students does not mean smarter students. Being more expensive of an education does not mean you're more quality of an education. I can't stand the DU arrogance either.

With all that said, the education at CSU is just fine, and when some form or normal error is applied for sampling, the education at CU and CSU for equivalent programs are going to be nearly identical at the undergrad level imo. From my perspective, all CSU engineers I've worked with have been just fine - the laws of thermodynamics and physics don't change. Whatever major the rest of you were - do you REALLY consider the undergrad education you received at CU to be far superior to CSU???

I do grant that on average, at least when I graduated HS in '00, that more of the state's "intellectual" kids went to CU instead of CSU (e.g. Boettcher Scholars), and many of the graduate programs at CU are top notch, higher ranked than CSU in terms of the professors doing the research and grants. We do have an impressive alumni list as well. However, for the rest of us normal, undergraduates, I refuse the notion that I'm superior to my CSU counterparts. They are my equals in the work place via the education we received at our respective institutions. I don't get this aspect of the original post........I get having pride in our school, but think the pride has crossed over to being condescending/arrogant.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

-The point of UT vs TT was that teams even more disparate than CU and CSU can be lumped together
-Alternatively, the neutral field is simply recognizing this is a way to get the two largest students bodies in the state (and by pure #'s, there is equality) in a venue that can hold more people than any other in state. But it looks like we're going to on campus for future games anyways.
-Who cares? My ego doesn't get hurt if someone else thinks he's better than me, and I couldn't give less of a **** if some Rams and their fans think CSU is an equivalent academic institution.

What you are missing is that this game does close to nothing for the University of Colorado. Colorado isn't anywhere near to being a major recruiting state, and we do not compete with CSU for the majority of our players; the exposure is meaningless. The game is high risk, low reward and really needs to end.

 

[DBT]

This thread reminds me of ***kerpedia back in the day when they ranted about CU.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

What you are missing is that this game does close to nothing for the University of Colorado. Colorado isn't anywhere near to being a major recruiting state, and we do not compete with CSU for the majority of our players; the exposure is meaningless. The game is high risk, low reward and really needs to end.

Oh, I'm not missing anything. You're making a point that the prior post wasn't. The game is enjoyed by a large number of Colorado residents, as a 70k crowd testifies to. It's a rivalry, naturally, by pure proximity and by the hatred (CSU) and entitlement (CU) harbored by each fan base. Reminds of Bedlam in a way (except that I think our series is, believe it or not, actually more evenly matched over time than that one is).

 

[Uncle Ken]

-The point of UT vs TT was that teams even more disparate than CU and CSU can be lumped together
-Alternatively, the neutral field is simply recognizing this is a way to get the two largest students bodies in the state (and by pure #'s, there is equality) in a venue that can hold more people than any other in state. But it looks like we're going to on campus for future games anyways.
-Who cares? My ego doesn't get hurt if someone else thinks he's better than me, and I couldn't give less of a **** if some Rams and their fans think CSU is an equivalent academic institution.

You got into LSJU, but it wasn't a good fit?

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

You got into LSJU, but it wasn't a good fit?

No idea what school that is, my friend.

Edit: ha, I think I know where you're referencing there. I did a fellowship at the junior university for a year. No, it wouldn't have been a good fit in my field. There's no comparison amongst the two schools in my graduate program (evolutionary biology & paleobiology).

Edit 2: complete sidetrack, but this might be one of the rare circumstances where I think university culture is important. I could have gone to Junior U and worked with my fellowship advisor, but I felt much more at home across the water. I come from a damn poor family, and apppreciate that such an institution goes out of its way to welcome lower socioeconomic students in (roughly a quarter are first generation college students; a third come from families earning 40k or less). Contrast that with the other school that has more than 3/4 of students coming from families earning more than $300k. That's not what I believe education and educational access should be about. Rant over.

 

[Uncle Ken]

No idea what school that is, my friend.

Edit: ha, I think I know where you're referencing there. I did a fellowship at the junior university for a year. No, it wouldn't have been a good fit in my field. There's no comparison amongst the two schools in my graduate program (evolutionary biology & paleobiology).

Edit 2: complete sidetrack, but this might be one of the rare circumstances where I think university culture is important. I could have gone to Junior U and worked with my fellowship advisor, but I felt much more at home across the water. I come from a damn poor family, and apppreciate that such an institution goes out of its way to welcome lower socioeconomic students in (roughly a quarter are first generation college students; a third come from families earning 40k or less). Contrast that with the other school that has more than 3/4 of students coming from families earning more than $300k. That's not what I believe education and educational access should be about. Rant over.

I feel super-validated right now!

 

[azbuff]

Oh, I'm not missing anything. You're making a point that the prior post wasn't. The game is enjoyed by a large number of Colorado residents, as a 70k crowd testifies to. It's a rivalry, naturally, by pure proximity and by the hatred (CSU) and entitlement (CU) harbored by each fan base. Reminds of Bedlam in a way (except that I think our series is, believe it or not, actually more evenly matched over time than that one is).

I don't believe it.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Oh, I'm not missing anything. You're making a point that the prior post wasn't. The game is enjoyed by a large number of Colorado residents, as a 70k crowd testifies to. It's a rivalry, naturally, by pure proximity and by the hatred (CSU) and entitlement (CU) harbored by each fan base. Reminds of Bedlam in a way (except that I think our series is, believe it or not, actually more evenly matched over time than that one is).

So, in other words, "I don't care if it is good for CU."

 

[Silver II]

I don't care about the basketball games, and frankly, I don't have a problem using one of the 12 non conference slots we have on them. My biggest issue is the football game, and several of us have made these points before-

1. We lost an OOC slot in the conference change. Using one of the three we have on CSU (regardless of the site of the game) drastically limits our ability to go schedule OOC.
2. The conference schedule is unbalanced. When we have four conference games at home, we've gotta make up for that by using the two OOC slots outside of CSU at Mile High on Group of 5 teams (Texas State or UMass two years ago) or FCS opponents (UNC or Nicholls State in 2015). This makes scheduling other quality competition in football next to impossible.

That's before we get into talking about the schadenfreude towards us from their fans, faux-conspiracies relating to officiating, and other nonsense we hear from CSU people or the Denver media. I believe one of Rick George's first goals after he took this job was to kill off this football game, and I think he's telling them its two games in Boulder for one in Fort Collins if you want to continue to play after 2020. Let's hope those are terms CSU isn't willing to meet.

Agree, we need to move on from the series, at least for a long while, to give CSU time to collect some perspective and get distance from CU. Seems like CSU sees themselves only as it relates to CU, in academics, in sports, even comparing towns. They have a good university with some outstanding specialities, a top notch college town, athletically competitive teams with a new on-campus stadium. On most of those counts, CSU is way ahead of many, including our old rival up I-80. So, I say be proud of what you've got and quit comparing yourselves to CU - that kite won't fly. Adios after 2020.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

So, in other words, "I don't care if it is good for CU."

Incorrect. In other words 1) some people are making mountains out of molehills in terms of how it is "bad" for CU while 2) ignoring how is good for CU and the state of Colorado.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Incorrect. In other words 1) some people are making mountains out of molehills in terms of how it is "bad" for CU while 2) ignoring how is good for CU and the state of Colorado.

1) Restricting our out of conference schedule by one game that doesn't help recruiting is the mountain. Pull your head out of the fanboy molehill.
2) The risks outweigh the rewards for CU; **** the rest of Colorado. The myth that this game somehow is good for football in the state, or the state in general is a bunch of crap.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

1) Restricting our out of conference schedule by one game that doesn't help recruiting is the mountain. Pull your head out of the fanboy molehill.
2) The risks outweigh the rewards for CU; **** the rest of Colorado. The myth that this game somehow is good for football in the state, or the state in general is a bunch of crap.

Those are both fine opinions, but merely that. Mine are different. So we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Those are both fine opinions, but merely that. Mine are different. So we'll just agree to disagree.

Fine, name the specific benefits CU achieves with this game that they wouldn't if the series was discontinued.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

Fine, name the specific benefits CU achieves with this game that they wouldn't if the series was discontinued.

Why? You seem intent on arguing, of which I have no particular interest. The benefits of the game are to the fans/ student bodies/ alumni, much as they are for any rivalry, while also noting that the feeling is always lesser for the superior team/ institution in any rivalry. You could easily argue your way out of there being specific advantages to either team in many athletic series that are still meaningful to those fan bases.

I can see you have some strong opinions on this matter. That's fine. I have different ones. I don't care to argue about them online. The decisions are not in our hands anyways.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Why? You seem intent on arguing, of which I have no particular interest. The benefits of the game are to the fans/ student bodies/ alumni, much as they are for any rivalry, while also noting that the feeling is always lesser for the superior team/ institution in any rivalry. You could easily argue your way out of there being specific advantages to either team in many athletic series that are still meaningful to those fan bases.

I can see you have some strong opinions on this matter. That's fine. I have different ones. I don't care to argue about them online. The decisions are not in our hands anyways.

So there are no quantifiable advantages.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

So there are no quantifiable advantages.

You could not have replied in a more predictable manner, and it seems you didn't read my last message. I said I don't care to argue them online. You're welcome to whatever opinion you'd like, and to valiantly fight the good fight to forbid the Rammies from ever entering our consciousness.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

You could not have replied in a more predictable manner, and it seems you didn't read my last message. I said I don't care to argue them online. You're welcome to whatever opinion you'd like, and to valiantly fight the good fight to forbid the Rammies from ever entering our consciousness.

I merely typed the summary version of the same paragraph.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

I merely typed the summary version of the same paragraph.

Then you typed a misinterpretation. Doesn't matter though - have a good one.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

Then you typed a misinterpretation. Doesn't matter though - have a good one.

That one was snarky;-) Enjoy the evening.

 

[BeBe]

To the title of this thread .... No. For the 2 sports I follow most (volleyball and WBB) the games between CU and CSU are very competitive and should be continued. In volleyball, CSU has the better results historically and is a very good measuring stick for where the Buffs are at.
For football, you all know far more than I. Yet the topic was ending competition between the schools in ALL sports.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

Football and Men's Basketball are the two that need to stop playing CSU. The other Olympic sports are fine playing good competition within a short travel distance.
Football specifically needs that game slot to fill in the schedule properly based on the next evolution of the program. The 2019 schedule does nothing for national exposure. While we all care about the Nubs game, the other two games are in state games that will not show additional appeal to national recruits, specifically Texas kids. I feel like we need to try to get a Texas game at minimum every other year and RG is doing a good job of that!

2020 at Texas AM is great, but having 2 away OOC games is stupid
2021 is a pretty kick butt schedule
2022 is similar to 2020 and is not the best option, however a game at AFA is pretty exciting and is totally different than CSU because it is a service academy.
2023 at TCU is fantastic, do not schedule CSU here.
2024 needs to add a decent home game and would not choose to play CSU here, because we will put so much effort into the Nebraska game, we could be gassed!!!
2025 needs to add a road game at somewhere decent like Houston, and if that happens, then you want a cupcake at home, so no CSU
2026 could and should be two cupcakes at home, but not CSU

IF, and only IF there is a lot of pressure to add CSU, then you offer a 2 for 1. Home Games in 2023 and 2024, and a trip to Fort Collins in 2025. Otherwise, let's just take at least 10 years off!!!

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

I'm a fan of having rivals on the schedule. In a perfect world, I wouldn't mind dropping CSU if we were able to play Nebraska every year, or at least one or the other every year. Rivalry games, for me, are a huge part of what makes college football so fun.