Spencer needs to go. Rose hasn't been the same since he jacked up his knee. Go get that kind of payday when you can and I'd assume he'd be a first round guy. He's a 6'6 point, don't see many of them.
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Realistic expectations for '14-'15
- Thread starter DBT
- Start date
Shooters are born not made. Sure he could become a better shooter but he won't became Ray Allen.
Exactly. I never said he couldn't get better but when someone posts crap logic they deserve to get called out... especially since the Stalzer ss a sharpshooter gets posted all the time
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
Shooters are made through proper technique and proper technique takes practice
Reggie Miller could shoot pretty well and he didn't have great form. It works for some guys I suppose but it's a learned thing. Some guys can just fill it up without being messed with.
This! I'm sure Eli Stalzer put in hours upon hours of shooting practice since his freshman year. Gym Rat.
Classic Slider post by the way, but their appears to be some redundancy above.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
We don't need Stalzer or any one person to become a sharpshooter. It ain't gonna happen, so why even discuss it?
What we need is for 3-4 guys to show they have a Pac-12 level jump shot, somewhere in the high 30s from outside. We currently have ONE guy like that (and even Ski isn;t shooting that from outside). It's not asking much. Somehow 8 or 9 other teams in the league have that already.
What we need is for 3-4 guys to show they have a Pac-12 level jump shot, somewhere in the high 30s from outside. We currently have ONE guy like that (and even Ski isn;t shooting that from outside). It's not asking much. Somehow 8 or 9 other teams in the league have that already.
Rraalph 3000
Well-Known Member
What happens if Spencer is a late 2nd round pick (let's be real, what NBA team is jumping to sign a guy with a busted knee)....does he really leave? I've not read all the posts about him definitely gone, but I'm not 100% convinced he's a 1st rounder and it's still a no brainer decision for him. Remember, this is about the deepest projected NBA draft in a long time.
In your 20 years of coaching then, I assume every single starter on every single team consisted of the 5 players who put the most time in the gym, right?
You're absolutely wrong here. Sure, practice can improve ability. Duh. However, natural talent and ability can inhibit that growth. "Practice makes perfect" is a stupid idiom. In order to be the best of the best, you have to have more than just effort.
He will get a lot of advice including from the advisory committee. Face it, the picks later in the first round are a crap shoot. I'd say Spencer will be worth taking a gamble on. Also, there are options other than going straight to the NBA.
I have been saying all year that the Buffs will be better in 2014-15 than this year.
Spencer going down will accelerate the development for next year and avoid some of the early season growing pains I had expected.
That said, it totally sucks. I thought Spencer could put this year's team on his back to the Sweet 16 or better. Now, I just don't know what to expect the rest of the way for this season.
Spencer going down will accelerate the development for next year and avoid some of the early season growing pains I had expected.
That said, it totally sucks. I thought Spencer could put this year's team on his back to the Sweet 16 or better. Now, I just don't know what to expect the rest of the way for this season.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
1) Practice doesn't make perfect....perfect practice makes perfect.....I have mentioned several times that very sentiment of proper technique...Shooting is a skill not a natural ability
2) I never argued the fact that Stalzer is a better athlete...my whole problem with the statement that started this off was that practice doesn't matter...check the post.
Shooting is absolutely a natural ability. It can improve with practice, but some guys can just plain shoot. Bill Laimbeer was one of the best shooting bigs I've ever seen -- and he never practiced shooting in the offseason. Just one example.
All I'm saying is that if you want great shooters you recruit them.
All I'm saying is that if you want great shooters you recruit them.
Ha. I did? You're the one saying practice is the only thing that matters, which is ridiculous. Do you give your players shirts that say, "Hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard" and feel all happy and clever inside?
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
There are arguments that can be made either way. Some guys have terrible form but are pretty good shooters regardless and that's because they shoot a ton. A guy like Kevin Martin comes to mind. Then there are guys who are just naturals when it comes to shooting. I don't know if anyone has watched Kansas lately, but Joel Embiid has a prettier jumper than anyone on our team. He's one of those guys that was just born with it, further evidenced by the fact that he's only been playing for 3 years.
Another point that brings up is the guys on our team who have bad form, Hopkins, Gordon, Scott (good high release but very rushed motion), Stalzer, even Dinwiddie to an extent, have been shooting that way since they were little kids and bad habits are hard to break and form is hard to change. Whoever got a hold of Embiid taught him proper everything.
Gordon could become a dead eye 3 point shooter, but he'd have to alter his shot first.
rolandftw
Club Member
Some team will take a shot on him, at least in the early to mid 2nd round. It'd be a low risk gamble for them. They could pay around $500,000, see how he progresses in rehab and then make a decision on his second year at around $800,000. The risk is more on Dinwiddie's side, as some team could draft him and not be so nice as to pay him to rehab. They could wait around until he's ready to play and then talk contract.
Also, most don't think the draft is that deep outside of the Top 7.
In your scenario, he should come back. First round money is a guaranteed $2 million +. I think if he comes back and gets healthy he's a sure 1st rounder.
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
I never said once that practice is the only thing that matters....you said
You can't just practice something and become good at it. If that was the case, every team in the nation would have a player who does this and becomes a sharpshooter. Just because Stalzer is a below average athlete and white doesn't mean he can become a good shooter.
I am saying you can practice something and be good at it. Is saying Gordon can be the best 3-pointer in the country an exaggeration...of course it is....but so is him saying you can't get good by practice.
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Do you know what "just" means? Or did you accidentally skip over that like 4 times?
rolandftw
Club Member
That's where I am at as well. Even if a team promises to take him in the 2nd round and give him a guaranteed deal, there's just too much uncertainty as far as a team above them maybe having a completely different train of thought. Staying at CU, the school would take care of him during his rebab, and he'd have a better chance of making more money as a 1st round pick
BuffG
Well-Known Member
Hoping that Spencer comes back is one thing. Certainly, the odds have increased. Hoping that he comes back and is ready to play like a 1st rd pick before March/2015 is one whole factory of sunshine pumping.
Nerlens Noel only fell 5 spots with a knee situation similar to Dinwiddie. Not saying he was ever a lottery pick, but he was a legit 1st rounder. It's a deep draft but I don't see too many 6'6 PGs w/ Spencer's resume or skill set. No way he doesn't get drafted at the very worst 2nd round.
Plenty on this board thought Roberson should stay too. How much of that is just being in the tank for CU? I'm a Buff but I don't waste my energy hoping for our most talented to stick around when there's greener ($$$) pastures
Nerlens Noel only fell 5 spots with a knee situation similar to Dinwiddie. Not saying he was ever a lottery pick, but he was a legit 1st rounder. It's a deep draft but I don't see too many 6'6 PGs w/ Spencer's resume or skill set. No way he doesn't get drafted at the very worst 2nd round.
Plenty on this board thought Roberson should stay too. How much of that is just being in the tank for CU? I'm a Buff but I don't waste my energy hoping for our most talented to stick around when there's greener ($$$) pastures
cubuffs85
Active Member
At first I thought he should've stayed as well, because he wasn't getting drafted in the first round. I saw some valid arguments for him leaving and changed my tune. Even though I thought he made a good decision to leave (really could've gone either way at the time), I still was concerned he wasn't going to get drafted. Now, on the flip side staying could've just diminished his value.
So yes, I want what is best for CU, but I think I can look at this objectively.
BuffG
Well-Known Member
The 76ers, for one. San Antonio Spurs drafted Dejuan Blair who had way more knee surgeries and as usual they were praised for the selection after he played well. Really, a lot of teams have. I could see Dinwiddie as a classic Spurs value pick.
There's a serious logical fallacy going on amongst those who think Dinwiddie should stay/won't get drafted. How is he all of a sudden not valuable to NBA teams but at the same time he should stay because he'll play himself into the 1st round next year. Can't have it both ways. You can assert his 2014/2015 season is scrapped ala Derrick Rose or you can argue that he's still an NBA draft pick. Both are logical. But this idea that he'll be a valuable player for the Buffs next year but not valuable to the NBA is nonsensical.
Well, yeah. It hinges on where he's projected to go. I posted earlier that someone will probably gamble on him in the first round. If he's pretty sure that will happen, I'd tell him to leave if he were my kid. Which would really come as a shock to my wife.
BuffG
Well-Known Member
In terms of Dinwiddie going or staying, the better question is not where he's projected to go. The better question is whether he'd be an effective player before next season is 2/3 over. If you think he will then you should want him to go to the pros. If you think he won't then you should still want him to get drafted. The only other valid argument is that he redshirts and there's like a <1% chance of that happening.
If you want this program to continue accumulating talent then you should want the very best to get drafted ASAP. Looking at Dinwiddie's recruitment, Burks & Higgins going to the pros was a part of his decision to come here. I can guarantee all of our NBA draft picks played a part in the players that came afterwards.
If Dinwiddie stays but doesn't get into form until the end of next season then his stock could go down even further. Not a good gamble for him or CU. If his rehab is going really well and all signs point to him getting in form by this time next year then he'll have plenty of NBA interest and that only bodes well for the Buffaloes
rolandftw
Club Member
I try to be objective about this kind of stuff. I personally think it's better for him and for CU if he gets drafted in the 1st round. Maybe not for the 2014-15 Basketball season, but longterm, it's another player that goes in the 1st round, which has to help you somewhat in recruiting. For him, that would be a guaranteed contract, which means he could get paid to rehab for sure.
I hope Spencer does whatever he thinks is best for him. Even though I think entering the draft and going in the 2nd round, and potentially not getting a guaranteed deal, would be very disappointing... if that is what he thinks is best, everyone should support him with that.
I think if he did come back he would likely be ready to impress people at the NBA Draft Combine in Chicago. Not sure what type of impact he'll make for next year, even if he decides to come back
