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Recruiting (Football forum)

Chromeburn said:
Considering the win loss record, I'm impressed they are pulling in any four stars at all. Just about every college town is fun. They may not be as nice, but they are fun. And half the population doesn't take off to go skiing, they stay in town and party.

But don't kid yourselves, facilities do matter. Its an arms race, and if we want top 25 classes they need to be improved. I bet every team in the SEC and B1G have better facilities than we do. Then finding four schools between the ACC, PAC 12, and Big 12 with better facilities shouldn't be hard. Thats the top 30. If we want to compete we need to level the playing field. Probably should close the stadium with seating all the way around as well but that's another discussion.
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Facilities do matter but what is frustrating is that other things do as well. We don't have to have the best facilities to compete, we only have to have facilities good enough look like we are serious. If we are close our other positives can win the battles for us but we have to be at least competitive. Unfortunately we have allowed ourselves to fall far enough behind that we can't get guys to pay attention to the things we have that other schools will never match.
 
buffaloflyer said:
There is no comparison between bb and fb. Boyle has 12 guys to coach up, Embree has 60+, Boyle had a boatload of talent to work with, Embree had brainwashed monks.

He brought in 19 guys and a 12th place finish in year 1, followed by 27 and and an 8th place finish in year two, Currently we sit at 6th place with 14, Oregon has 11 and sits in 5th. yeah we're looking up at USC UCLA UW but look at the recruits, California speed and Texas OL's. and by the numbers we're ahead of most of the PAC.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the part where we're pretty full and likely done recruiting (give or take 4 or 5 guys). Cal and Stanford are currently below us because they have 6 and 10 recruits. They'll end up higher than us. Other teams below us are also likely to move up as they get more commits.
 
buffaloflyer said:
There is no comparison between bb and fb. Boyle has 12 guys to coach up, Embree has 60+, Boyle had a boatload of talent to work with, Embree had brainwashed monks.

He brought in 19 guys and a 12th place finish in year 1, followed by 27 and and an 8th place finish in year two, Currently we sit at 6th place with 14, Oregon has 11 and sits in 5th. yeah we're looking up at USC UCLA UW but look at the recruits, California speed and Texas OL's. and by the numbers we're ahead of most of the PAC.
Click to expand...

This post is all over the place. For one, 3 of the 5 OL are outside the state of Texas. The California speed in this class is average overall. As far as the PAC-12 teams behind us, most have less numbers but better quality. Plus we have some commits wavering, including arguably the best player (Parsons). Not good enough by any measure.
 
White_Rabbit said:
Don't forget the part where we're pretty full and likely done recruiting (give or take 4 or 5 guys). Cal and Stanford are currently below us because they have 6 and 10 recruits. They'll end up higher than us. Other teams below us are also likely to move up as they get more commits.
Click to expand...

I love the asinine myth among the sympathizers that this staff is recruiting lights out. LOL. Enjoy our 12/12 class in the Pac ranked 70th nationally in February.
 
CVilleBuff said:
You don't see a segment that thinks Embree & Co. can do no wrong regardless of anything? I do. If you don't, that's your problem.
Click to expand...

According to you anyone who shows any support for this staff deserves to be disparaged and belittled. Fans have a right to their opinions even if they are different than yours.
 
BlackNGold said:
According to you anyone who shows any support for this staff deserves to be disparaged and belittled. Fans have a right to their opinions even if they are different than yours.
Click to expand...


There's a big difference between giving a rational response for why this staff deserves another year and saying comments out of left field with zero basis in reality. Delusional comments such as "this staff is recruiting really well" or "yeah we're 1-4, but that's acceptable given our youth" or "we're better than Cal and Utah" are asinine and I call them out. Meanwhile, comments such as "We're seeing development with the DLine" are sensible reasons. Big difference.

And "loyalists" was TIC. God almighty people.
 
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BlackNGold said:
According to you anyone who shows any support for this staff deserves to be disparaged and belittled. Fans have a right to their opinions even if they are different than yours.
Click to expand...

Dbt showed Embree some love and his Romney sign goes missing hours later at the same time that cville goes dark.coincidence? I think not.
 
MtnBuff said:
Facilities do matter but what is frustrating is that other things do as well. We don't have to have the best facilities to compete, we only have to have facilities good enough look like we are serious. If we are close our other positives can win the battles for us but we have to be at least competitive. Unfortunately we have allowed ourselves to fall far enough behind that we can't get guys to pay attention to the things we have that other schools will never match.
Click to expand...

This isn't really a reply to you but the thread in general. I agree for the most part. A lot of things are out of the universities control. But the quality of the stadium and facilities are something they can control. A lot of the things we value as students and alumni are not always what a recruit values. Recruits are probably not going to go skiing on weekends. Some of these kids are from the inner city or poor areas and have never likely seen a ski before. I was talking to this guy from Compton (Los Angeles) last year and he told me he knew guys that had never been to the beach, they had never even left their neighborhood. Sure Boulder is a nice location and a beautiful school. Academically they are a good school. But if we want the top recruits it will come down to winning, the staffs ability to get recruits into the pros, and the quality of the facilities.

We have a lot of history but we are not a blue blood program. We are not a school that is entitled to get good again, or will draw the best coaches to the school. We don't have to have the best facilities in the nation, we will never have facilities like Texas, Ohio State, Florida or Alabama. But we should be in the top 25. We should win a recruit if he is deciding between Baylor, Texas A&M, or Cal (although Santa Barbara is pretty hard to compete with). We should have better facilities than those schools and then the other factors should put us over the top. Look at Vanderbuilts new facilities compared to ours. This takes financial commitment, and really it is up to the university to do it. People don't like Embree, well you get what you pay for. You get an inexperienced staff that has never been in the positions they are now. As I said, considering their record, the recruiting is looking pretty good.

And comparing basketball and football is apples to oranges. Basketball is a much cheaper program to run and easier to turn around. And all it takes is one or two recruits to turn a program around. Football is a lot more expensive and it takes a team and coaching staff to turn things around. You need several good recruits on both sides of the ball to turn things around. Even a good QB can only do so much.
 
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CVilleBuff said:
There's a big difference between giving a rational response for why this staff deserves another year and saying comments out of left field with zero basis in reality. Delusional comments such as "this staff is recruiting really well" or "yeah we're 1-4, but that's acceptable given our youth" or "we're better than Cal and Utah" are asinine and I call them out. Meanwhile, comments such as "We're seeing development with the DLine" are sensible reasons. Big difference.

And "loyalists" was TIC. God almighty people.
Click to expand...

Zero basis in reality? try zero basis in your reality. The Buffs are the youngest team in the NCAA that's a fact, therefore it's real. and when Utah rolls into Folsom and gets rolled, that will be another fact that's real. Recruiting has improved each year under Embree and we now sit with a solid class that's averaging 3 stars, that real and you can check it on Rivals. Meanwhile going on record saying the Buffs should win 3 games or Embree should be fired is your opinion which is more asinine than any other I've seen posted as you have zero influence on making that call. Nice reality you got there buddy, excellent backtrack on loyalist too btw, at least I have the balls to stick with my opinions
 
I'm way too lazy to go back and try and find the posts, but there are two things I remember from the immediate wake of the firing of HWNSNBM, and then the first spring of the Embree era:

1. A lot of people, even then, were saying "2011 is going to be bad, but 2012 is going to be even worse" and doing deep dives into the roster to prove it. Well, they were right. The folks making those statements also pretty much said that 2013 would be the make/break year for Embree; I suspect they were* right.

2. A lot of people, when talking about recruiting (me included) were basically saying that we were expecting to see recruiting classes in the 50-60 ranking range for a couple years (and that it would be an improvement over HWNSNBM's classes), with a trajectory towards top 30 classes in the 3-4 year range. Last year put us way ahead of that trajectory; it probably raised our expectations a bit too high for this year.

I don't know what those points are supposed to add, but I keep thinking about them reading this thread.

*I used "were" instead of "are" because I really think that some of the people who were predicting a terrible 2012 back in 2010, and saying that we would have to give the new staff until 2013 at least, are also some of the same people who, now that they are experiencing an actual terrible 2012, are calling for the staffs' collective scalps.
 
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buffaloflyer said:
Zero basis in reality? try zero basis in your reality. The Buffs are the youngest team in the NCAA that's a fact, therefore it's real. and when Utah rolls into Folsom and gets rolled, that will be another fact that's real. Recruiting has improved each year under Embree and we now sit with a solid class that's averaging 3 stars, that real and you can check it on Rivals. Meanwhile going on record saying the Buffs should win 3 games or Embree should be fired is your opinion which is more asinine than any other I've seen posted as you have zero influence on making that call. Nice reality you got there buddy, excellent backtrack on loyalist too btw, at least I have the balls to stick with my opinions
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Oh lawd
 
I have seen Colorados facilities first hand. Locker room, tunnel. Equipment room. Offices everything. I just got back from Wyoming university, I thought I would never say this but, the cowboys facilities are far better than our. Sure things may be smaller, but it like comparing an Acura to a Honda. Right now we have Honda like facilities. Arizona and asu have acura level. While Cal and UCLA have Mercedes like faculties. And then you have the bentleys like Bama and USC. All I want is Acura to Mercedes level.
 
The class is averaging 3* on rivals. I wonder if buffaloflyer might have concerns that it is mostly due to 5.5rr level 3* players.

(Hint: he should)
 
Chromeburn said:
This isn't really a reply to you but the thread in general. I agree for the most part. A lot of things are out of the universities control. But the quality of the stadium and facilities are something they can control. A lot of the things we value as students and alumni are not always what a recruit values. Recruits are probably not going to go skiing on weekends. Some of these kids are from the inner city or poor areas and have never likely seen a ski before. I was talking to this guy from Compton (Los Angeles) last year and he told me he knew guys that had never been to the beach, they had never even left their neighborhood. Sure Boulder is a nice location and a beautiful school. Academically they are a good school. But if we want the top recruits it will come down to winning, the staffs ability to get recruits into the pros, and the quality of the facilities.

We have a lot of history but we are not a blue blood program. We are not a school that is entitled to get good again, or will draw the best coaches to the school. We don't have to have the best facilities in the nation, we will never have facilities like Texas, Ohio State, Florida or Alabama. But we should be in the top 25. We should win a recruit if he is deciding between Baylor, Texas A&M, or Cal (although Santa Barbara is pretty hard to compete with). We should have better facilities than those schools and then the other factors should put us over the top. Look at Vanderbuilts new facilities compared to ours. This takes financial commitment, and really it is up to the university to do it. People don't like Embree, well you get what you pay for. You get an inexperienced staff that has never been in the positions they are now. As I said, considering their record, the recruiting is looking pretty good.

And comparing basketball and football is apples to oranges. Basketball is a much cheaper program to run and easier to turn around. And all it takes is one or two recruits to turn a program around. Football is a lot more expensive and it takes a team and coaching staff to turn things around. You need several good recruits on both sides of the ball to turn things around. Even a good QB can only do so much.
Click to expand...

Santa Barbara?
 
buffaloflyer said:
Zero basis in reality? try zero basis in your reality. The Buffs are the youngest team in the NCAA that's a fact, therefore it's real.
Click to expand...
Agree, at least in the top 2-3.

buffaloflyer said:
and when Utah rolls into Folsom and gets rolled, that will be another fact that's real.
Click to expand...
picard-facepalm.jpg



buffaloflyer said:
Recruiting has improved each year under Embree and we now sit with a solid class that's averaging 3 stars, that real and you can check it on Rivals.
Click to expand...
2010 Hawk's last full recruiting class:

[TD="class: rank yui-dt0-col-rank yui-dt-col-rank yui-dt-desc yui-dt-sortable yui-dt-first"]# 66

[/TD]
[TD="class: school yui-dt0-col-school yui-dt-col-school yui-dt-sortable"] Colorado
[/TD]
[TD="class: total yui-dt0-col-total yui-dt-col-total yui-dt-sortable"]22

[/TD]
[TD="class: star5 yui-dt0-col-star5 yui-dt-col-star5 yui-dt-sortable"]0
[/TD]
[TD="class: star4 yui-dt0-col-star4 yui-dt-col-star4 yui-dt-sortable"]0

[/TD]
[TD="class: star3 yui-dt0-col-star3 yui-dt-col-star3 yui-dt-sortable"]15
[/TD]
[TD="class: avg yui-dt0-col-avg yui-dt-col-avg yui-dt-sortable"]2.68
[/TD]
[TD="class: points yui-dt0-col-points yui-dt-col-points yui-dt-sortable yui-dt-last"]399

[/TD]


2011 Embree's first:

[TD="class: rank yui-dt0-col-rank yui-dt-col-rank yui-dt-desc yui-dt-sortable yui-dt-first"]# 74

[/TD]
[TD="class: school yui-dt0-col-school yui-dt-col-school yui-dt-sortable"] Colorado
[/TD]
[TD="class: total yui-dt0-col-total yui-dt-col-total yui-dt-sortable"]19

[/TD]
[TD="class: star5 yui-dt0-col-star5 yui-dt-col-star5 yui-dt-sortable"]0
[/TD]
[TD="class: star4 yui-dt0-col-star4 yui-dt-col-star4 yui-dt-sortable"]0

[/TD]
[TD="class: star3 yui-dt0-col-star3 yui-dt-col-star3 yui-dt-sortable"]13
[/TD]
[TD="class: avg yui-dt0-col-avg yui-dt-col-avg yui-dt-sortable"]2.68
[/TD]
[TD="class: points yui-dt0-col-points yui-dt-col-points yui-dt-sortable yui-dt-last"]256

[/TD]

2012:


[TD="class: rank yui-dt0-col-rank yui-dt-col-rank yui-dt-desc yui-dt-sortable yui-dt-first"]# 36

[/TD]
[TD="class: school yui-dt0-col-school yui-dt-col-school yui-dt-sortable"] Colorado
[/TD]
[TD="class: total yui-dt0-col-total yui-dt-col-total yui-dt-sortable"]27

[/TD]
[TD="class: star5 yui-dt0-col-star5 yui-dt-col-star5 yui-dt-sortable"]0
[/TD]
[TD="class: star4 yui-dt0-col-star4 yui-dt-col-star4 yui-dt-sortable"]2

[/TD]
[TD="class: star3 yui-dt0-col-star3 yui-dt-col-star3 yui-dt-sortable"]20
[/TD]
[TD="class: avg yui-dt0-col-avg yui-dt-col-avg yui-dt-sortable"]2.89
[/TD]
[TD="class: points yui-dt0-col-points yui-dt-col-points yui-dt-sortable yui-dt-last"]965

[/TD]

2013:
[TABLE="class: ysr-list"]
[TR="class: odd"]
[TH="class: rank"]#51
[/TH]
[TD="class: school"]Colorado
[/TD]
[TD="class: total"]14
[/TD]
[TD="class: star5"]0[/TD]
[TD="class: star4"]1
[/TD]
[TD="class: star3"]11[/TD]
[TD="class: avg"]3.00[/TD]
[TD="class: points"]885[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I will go with average star rankings, and agree that we've been improving. If we lose our 4* though, this is gonna get ugly.


However, as we have seen on the field, we currently don't have players who can create a mismatch against the other team. We also currently don't have coaches who can scheme a mismatch against the other team. This is a bad combination. At least one of these things has to change in order for us to have any chance at success.
 
I hope to hell this admin knows what they are doing, I know of high schools with indoor facilities.
 
skibum said:
I'm way too lazy to go back and try and find the posts, but there are two things I remember from the immediate wake of the firing of HWNSNBM, and then the first spring of the Embree era:

1. A lot of people, even then, were saying "2011 is going to be bad, but 2012 is going to be even worse" and doing deep dives into the roster to prove it. Well, they were right. The folks making those statements also pretty much said that 2013 would be the make/break year for Embree; I suspect they were* right.

2. A lot of people, when talking about recruiting (me included) were basically saying that we were expecting to see recruiting classes in the 50-60 ranking range for a couple years (and that it would be an improvement over HWNSNBM's classes), with a trajectory towards top 30 classes in the 3-4 year range. Last year put us way ahead of that trajectory; it probably raised our expectations a bit too high for this year.

I don't know what those points are supposed to add, but I keep thinking about them reading this thread.

*I used "were" instead of "are" because I really think that some of the people who were predicting a terrible 2012 back in 2010, and saying that we would have to give the new staff until 2013 at least, are also some of the same people who, now that they are experiencing an actual terrible 2012, are calling for the staffs' collective scalps.
Click to expand...

Who said this? This staff was BUILT to recruit. Embree, EB, Tui, Kanavis, Kennedy, Cabral.... I expected Top 35-30 to start, and moving towards top 25. They had a fine class last year, but this class is a pure failure thus far.
 
dio said:
Who said this? This staff was BUILT to recruit. Embree, EB, Tui, Kanavis, Kennedy, Cabral.... I expected Top 35-30 to start, and moving towards top 25. They had a fine class last year, but this class is a pure failure thus far.
Click to expand...

Complete revisionist history.

The coaches cannot win with poor talent, but top 60 classes are all good? Most competent programs can recruit top 60 classes in their sleep.
 
I like some of the recruiting, much isn't good tho. Been around football a long time, never heard of any d1 school starting 3 true freshmen in the secondary at the same time. Should tell you about our depth and talent.
 
I'm guessing that some recruits and their families read all the crying and whining that goes on here, including in the recruiting forum. I doubt that it helps.
 
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