Recruiting Heading Forward

[jgisland]

The one other point I'd make here is that, while I understand Tad wants the foundation to be built on the defensive end, that hasn't necessarily been the case this year. We're seeing a lot of freshmen struggle at times, losing their man and giving up open looks. I don't buy that giving 10 mpg to a specialist is going to destroy our team defense.

I'll be honest, I'm surprised so many are so opposed to adding a shooter. I agree that some are focusing too hard on that one area, primarily due to our own defensive philosophy of challenging teams to beat us from behind the line, leading to some big performances against us. That doesn't mean it's a terrible idea though.

I'm not opposed to adding a shooter, I am opposed to adding a one-trick pony. While I was joking earlier, CU has that -Brett Brady. I'm also not sure that when a defense is struggling the answer is to add a worse defender into the equation and just try to outscore them. B/c if that's the philosophy you're counting on execution in the half court, which is never a given.

 

[Buffnik]

Eli Stalzer?

I think I've got a good track record of not bashing players. I probably error too far the other way by treating young men with kid gloves. But I'm going to call Eli out. All of his shooting stats are down from his freshman to sophomore season. He's only shooting 54.5% from the foul line for chriisakes. And the form on the 2 he took against Washington was so bad, so loose, and so inconsistent from shot to shot with an off balance follow-through that I am left to wonder... Is he putting the work in? He doesn't look like a guy who is putting in the gym time on his shot.

 

[slider]

Ya not enough practice. And why do we need to recruit a shooter when we can just find a random on the roster to "become" a sharpshooter.

I think I've got a good track record of not bashing players. I probably error too far the other way by treating young men with kid gloves. But I'm going to call Eli out. All of his shooting stats are down from his freshman to sophomore season. He's only shooting 54.5% from the foul line for chriisakes. And the form on the 2 he took against Washington was so bad, so loose, and so inconsistent from shot to shot with an off balance follow-through that I am left to wonder... Is he putting the work in? He doesn't look like a guy who is putting in the gym time on his shot.

 

[mattrob]

I'm not opposed to adding a shooter, I am opposed to adding a one-trick pony. While I was joking earlier, CU has that -Brett Brady. I'm also not sure that when a defense is struggling the answer is to add a worse defender into the equation and just try to outscore them. B/c if that's the philosophy you're counting on execution in the half court, which is never a given.

More than anything, I'd advocating adding a changeup to the arsenal. I understand we're never going to see a guy like that play major minute for Tad, and I'm OK with that. Going back to last night, though, there was a point where it was pretty obvious what we were doing wasn't working and the game was getting out of hand fast. Maybe it's a desperation play, but I like the idea of showing a different look, trying to change momentum a little bit, and maybe gaining some offensive confidence. We were helpless on the defensive end anyway during that stretch, so I don't think it would've been a big hit. Outside of that game, I think we're really talking about a zone-buster, which we usually see when we have a talent advantage anyway. In those matchups, I think it's reasonable to think we can find an acceptable defensive matchup.

 

[mattrob]

I think I've got a good track record of not bashing players. I probably error too far the other way by treating young men with kid gloves. But I'm going to call Eli out. All of his shooting stats are down from his freshman to sophomore season. He's only shooting 54.5% from the foul line for chriisakes. And the form on the 2 he took against Washington was so bad, so loose, and so inconsistent from shot to shot with an off balance follow-through that I am left to wonder... Is he putting the work in? He doesn't look like a guy who is putting in the gym time on his shot.

Agreed. He looks like his form has regressed since last year.

 

[jgisland]

More than anything, I'd advocating adding a changeup to the arsenal. I understand we're never going to see a guy like that play major minute for Tad, and I'm OK with that. Going back to last night, though, there was a point where it was pretty obvious what we were doing wasn't working and the game was getting out of hand fast. Maybe it's a desperation play, but I like the idea of showing a different look, trying to change momentum a little bit, and maybe gaining some offensive confidence. We were helpless on the defensive end anyway during that stretch, so I don't think it would've been a big hit. Outside of that game, I think we're really talking about a zone-buster, which we usually see when we have a talent advantage anyway. In those matchups, I think it's reasonable to think we can find an acceptable defensive matchup.

That's totally fair- i told Goose last night "can we get Scott in a ball handling guards camp this summer, so when teams pack it in and we can't get him the ball we can just in-bounds it to him and he can go do work". I was only partially kidding, the point being when those stretches happen we're all looking for an adjustment to be made.

 

[mattrob]

That's totally fair- i told Goose last night "can we get Scott in a ball handling guards camp this summer, so when teams pack it in and we can't get him the ball we can just in-bounds it to him and he can go do work". I was only partially kidding, the point being when those stretches happen we're all looking for an adjustment to be made.

Offensive spacing has just been awful at times too. I made reference to it earlier, but in nearly every game, you'll see at least one or two possessions where Josh will fight for post position, only to have Thomas wander over right in front of him or try to post right beside him. I love DT's upside, and it just feels like a breakout game is coming, but the kid has a ton to learn.

 

[jgisland]

Offensive spacing has just been awful at times too. I made reference to it earlier, but in nearly every game, you'll see at least one or two possessions where Josh will fight for post position, only to have Thomas wander over right in front of him or try to post right beside him. I love DT's upside, and it just feels like a breakout game is coming, but the kid has a ton to learn.

and I'd even argue the spacing is better this year than last year! DT will learn, something happened and he lost some confidence and he was lost for 6 weeks and he's starting to get it again. Early in the season when he was playing the 4 against the zone he was flashing to the high post, immediately pivoting towards the rim and looking for Scott on the low post, ready to take the elbow jumper or put the ball on the floor (you know, all the stuff you're supposed to do in the high post) and I couldn't praise him enough, I kept thinking this is what we have been missing, then for a stretch every time he caught the ball he was pivoting away from the hoop and putting his back to the basket, but he's showing signs again.

 

[mattrob]

and I'd even argue the spacing is better this year than last year! DT will learn, something happened and he lost some confidence and he was lost for 6 weeks and he's starting to get it again. Early in the season when he was playing the 4 against the zone he was flashing to the high post, immediately pivoting towards the rim and looking for Scott on the low post, ready to take the elbow jumper or put the ball on the floor (you know, all the stuff you're supposed to do in the high post) and I couldn't praise him enough, I kept thinking this is what we have been missing, then for a stretch every time he caught the ball he was pivoting away from the hoop and putting his back to the basket, but he's showing signs again.

Yeah, he's still struggling to adjust, but he's been more aggressive and is starting to look like he belongs again. He's gotten a couple 3's to falI too. I expect a huge leap forward from him next year. Part of the reason I'm probably a little harder on him is just knowing the type of impact he could make. I think he has the potential to be something special for this program.

 

[Buffenuf]

I think I've got a good track record of not bashing players. I probably error too far the other way by treating young men with kid gloves. But I'm going to call Eli out. All of his shooting stats are down from his freshman to sophomore season. He's only shooting 54.5% from the foul line for chriisakes. And the form on the 2 he took against Washington was so bad, so loose, and so inconsistent from shot to shot with an off balance follow-through that I am left to wonder... Is he putting the work in? He doesn't look like a guy who is putting in the gym time on his shot.

You're not bashing, just re-stating the obvious! Did you miss/forget the BDC article that stated Eli did, in fact, miss significant amouts of practice time due to the demands of his major (Music)? That's a key with Eli, his future in music will likely continue to hold him back from full time practice. Also, he can't be nearly as aggressive on "D" when he can't risk jamming, spraining or breaking fingers/wrists on either of his "piano-playing" hands.

Maybe its time for him to admit the obvious? I can't imagine he couldn't swing a good scholly for his last two years of Music training, which is his fututre.

Still need a drop-dead Euro Shooter though. ( Euro= very sound fundementally, if not particularly athletic, player)

 

[sackman]

So we all agree. Lets go get a shooter. Glad we got that worked out.


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[tante]

So we all agree. Lets go get a shooter. Glad we got that worked out.


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interesting that is what you got out of that.

 

[MtnBuff]

This thread reads like we are still the CU BB program of a few years ago, stuck in a situation of picking either or. We can have a kid who is athletic or we can have a kid who can shoot.

Fact is that Tad is proving both on the court and on the recruiting trail that he can go above what we are used to seeing in the past. Who's to say that we can't get somebody like a Boatwright or maybe a Hemsley or similar. A player who can potentially give us the kind of outside threat that will loosen up defenses while still being athletic enough to play the style of game that Tad wants to play.

We still may get that from one of the guys currently on the roster but it looks like they are also looking for that in the guys they are working on for the future. The points made earlier about XT are good, he may end up being a comparable shooter to what Levi was as a senior but also be able to run and defend in a way that Levi couldn't. We also have some freshmen who could develop as well but I think that in the future as we are in on higher level recruits we will see more versitile players coming in including better offensive skills.

The comments on Eli are also interesting. I wonder if he is losing his passion for the game as he recognizes that he is never going to be a major cog in the line-up and could very well find himself moving further down the bench as the young guys develop and more young talent comes in. Not calling for it or predicting it but I wonder if he doesn't evenutally decide to go a different direction and focus on academics (kind of like Wood in football.)

 

[tante]

This thread reads like we are still the CU BB program of a few years ago, stuck in a situation of picking either or. We can have a kid who is athletic or we can have a kid who can shoot.

Fact is that Tad is proving both on the court and on the recruiting trail that he can go above what we are used to seeing in the past. Who's to say that we can't get somebody like a Boatwright or maybe a Hemsley or similar. A player who can potentially give us the kind of outside threat that will loosen up defenses while still being athletic enough to play the style of game that Tad wants to play.

We still may get that from one of the guys currently on the roster but it looks like they are also looking for that in the guys they are working on for the future. The points made earlier about XT are good, he may end up being a comparable shooter to what Levi was as a senior but also be able to run and defend in a way that Levi couldn't. We also have some freshmen who could develop as well but I think that in the future as we are in on higher level recruits we will see more versitile players coming in including better offensive skills.

The comments on Eli are also interesting. I wonder if he is losing his passion for the game as he recognizes that he is never going to be a major cog in the line-up and could very well find himself moving further down the bench as the young guys develop and more young talent comes in. Not calling for it or predicting it but I wonder if he doesn't evenutally decide to go a different direction and focus on academics (kind of like Wood in football.)

I think you should temper your expectations. Even great high school shooters struggle as freshman.

 

[MtnBuff]

I think you should temper your expectations. Even great high school shooters struggle as freshman.

Which is one of my points. I wouldn't write of some of the young guys we have now as eventually developing into the kind of outside shooters who can provide that threat that moves defenses.

At the same time I'm not saying that those guys coming in will be deadeye shooters right away. Freshmen tend to struggle in a lot of ways when they are faced with bigger, faster, more mature competition. We are seeing that this year again with a number of the guys. Sometimes kids don't come into their own until their jr. or sr. seasons.

My point is that I wouldn't count on our future recruiting being an either or proposition. As we get better and get the attention of better quality recruits we can start seeing kids who are more versitile. They may not demonstrate that right away but this is part of building and developing a program which is what Tad is doing.

 

[mattrob]

jg- YMSSR. Good discussion, even if I was right and you were wrong! :thumbsup:

Edit: insert sarcasm font

 

[tante]

Which is one of my points. I wouldn't write of some of the young guys we have now as eventually developing into the kind of outside shooters who can provide that threat that moves defenses.

At the same time I'm not saying that those guys coming in will be deadeye shooters right away. Freshmen tend to struggle in a lot of ways when they are faced with bigger, faster, more mature competition. We are seeing that this year again with a number of the guys. Sometimes kids don't come into their own until their jr. or sr. seasons.

My point is that I wouldn't count on our future recruiting being an either or proposition. As we get better and get the attention of better quality recruits we can start seeing kids who are more versitile. They may not demonstrate that right away but this is part of building and developing a program which is what Tad is doing.

Then why didn't you say that instead of writing an essay?

 

[MtnBuff]

Then why didn't you say that instead of writing an essay?

Because it seems that 90% of this thread is making the assumption that Tad should either recruit a Levi clone who can shoot but is not at the athletic level that we are seeing from Tad's recent recruits or that we can get the guys who are athletic but can't shoot outside.

As our profile goes up nationally that doesn't have to be the case. We are getting to a point where it isn't unreasonable to think about getting a guy who is both.

It also is likely that that guy or those guys will not come in shooting lights out but rather will need time to adjust and develop as players and shooters.

 

[tante]

Because it seems that 90% of this thread is making the assumption that Tad should either recruit a Levi clone who can shoot but is not at the athletic level that we are seeing from Tad's recent recruits or that we can get the guys who are athletic but can't shoot outside.

As our profile goes up nationally that doesn't have to be the case. We are getting to a point where it isn't unreasonable to think about getting a guy who is both.

It also is likely that that guy or those guys will not come in shooting lights out but rather will need time to adjust and develop as players and shooters.

Did you get that idea from when I posted numbers earlier in the thread? I seriously don't know what you try to argue 90% of the time. Maybe because I get bored and stop reading your posts after the first paragraph.

 

[BuffinCali]

If Boatwright can play the 2/3 position, that gives Tad some INCREDIBLE versatility with his lineups.

I have seen Boatwright play 6 times this year and several more over the summer. He is a selfish shooter, plays outside of the offense and is not engaged on D. He does tend to get UP for an occassional game. He has also bounced around in HS and in AAU ball. Boatwright is also NOT 6' 6". He was measured this season at 6 4 1/2" with his shoes on.

CU would get an absolute stud in Rex, who can shoot from DEEP with high percentage as well as take his man off the dribble, he is also extremely active on defense. Rex will be a top 25 player nationally in a year from now.

 

[tante]

I have seen Boatwright play 6 times this year and several more over the summer. He is a selfish shooter, plays outside of the offense and is not engaged on D. He does tend to get UP for an occassional game. He has also bounced around in HS and in AAU ball. Boatwright is also NOT 6' 6". He was measured this season at 6 4 1/2" with his shoes on.

CU would get an absolute stud in Rex, who can shoot from DEEP with high percentage as well as take his man off the dribble, he is also extremely active on defense. Rex will be a top 25 player nationally in a year from now.

Some things don't add up. First BB is listed at 6'8". For him to be 3 inches shorter would be strange. I know guys can fudge an inch or two but over 3 would be tough to hide.

Second a lot if us love Rex and would love to see him in a CU uniform next year right next to BB, but will obviously defer to Tad if he can only take one. Surprised that BB doesn't play good defense because of the premium Tad puts on it. I can't see him bringing a kid that doesn't play good defense.

 

[MtnBuff]

Did you get that idea from when I posted numbers earlier in the thread? I seriously don't know what you try to argue 90% of the time. Maybe because I get bored and stop reading your posts after the first paragraph.

If you don't want to read it, don't read it, your choice. I don't read half of your stuff because most of the time you are just looking for an argument rather than an intelligent discussion.

If it matters that much to you put me on ignore, trust me it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

 

[mattrob]

Because it seems that 90% of this thread is making the assumption that Tad should either recruit a Levi clone who can shoot but is not at the athletic level that we are seeing from Tad's recent recruits or that we can get the guys who are athletic but can't shoot outside.

As our profile goes up nationally that doesn't have to be the case. We are getting to a point where it isn't unreasonable to think about getting a guy who is both.

It also is likely that that guy or those guys will not come in shooting lights out but rather will need time to adjust and develop as players and shooters.

There has been an ongoing argument for the last 2-3 years that Tad needs to recruit a pure shooter to take the team to the next level. Of course everyone wants a guy who can hit 50% of his 3's while playing good D. That's a no-brainer. Until we get that guy, though, the debate is whether we should take a one-trick pony to improve outside shooting on the team. Hence, the discussion above.

 

[Goose]

I have seen Boatwright play 6 times this year and several more over the summer. He is a selfish shooter, plays outside of the offense and is not engaged on D. He does tend to get UP for an occassional game. He has also bounced around in HS and in AAU ball. Boatwright is also NOT 6' 6". He was measured this season at 6 4 1/2" with his shoes on.

CU would get an absolute stud in Rex, who can shoot from DEEP with high percentage as well as take his man off the dribble, he is also extremely active on defense. Rex will be a top 25 player nationally in a year from now.

I really like Rex. He's not my top choice for '15, but the fact that he's a possibility is something everyone should be excited about.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on BB. I will say that the bouncing around a bit has had me nervous for a while. But I haven't heard any other red flags there. As for the other criticisms (except for height), I will say that a lot of those things were said about XJ in HS as well.

 

[prf]

I have seen Boatwright play 6 times this year and several more over the summer. He is a selfish shooter, plays outside of the offense and is not engaged on D. He does tend to get UP for an occassional game. He has also bounced around in HS and in AAU ball. Boatwright is also NOT 6' 6". He was measured this season at 6 4 1/2" with his shoes on.

CU would get an absolute stud in Rex, who can shoot from DEEP with high percentage as well as take his man off the dribble, he is also extremely active on defense. Rex will be a top 25 player nationally in a year from now.

Um, no. Bennie is a legit 6'8"
He definitely has issues with freelancing both on offense and defense, but questioning his size is wrong, especially if you're calling him 6'4"

 

[prf]

I really like Rex. He's not my top choice for '15, but the fact that he's a possibility is something everyone should be excited about.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on BB. I will say that the bouncing around a bit has had me nervous for a while. But I haven't heard any other red flags there. As for the other criticisms (except for height), I will say that a lot of those things were said about XJ in HS as well.

XJ transferred once, and I've heard from a trusted source that he is not a candidate to pull a Mater Dei. Boatwright is on 3 schools in 3 years.

 

[Goose]

The XJ criticisms I referenced were more lack of effort unless it's a big game (something that still tends to plague him today).

 

[prf]

The XJ criticisms I referenced were more lack of effort unless it's a big game (something that still tends to plague him today).

yeah that is true

 

[aik]

I have seen Boatwright play 6 times this year and several more over the summer. He is a selfish shooter, plays outside of the offense and is not engaged on D. He does tend to get UP for an occassional game. He has also bounced around in HS and in AAU ball. Boatwright is also NOT 6' 6". He was measured this season at 6 4 1/2" with his shoes on.

CU would get an absolute stud in Rex, who can shoot from DEEP with high percentage as well as take his man off the dribble, he is also extremely active on defense. Rex will be a top 25 player nationally in a year from now.

I would enjoy signing both BB and Rex. I don't think Tad is going to recruit a guy that high school and AAU coaches would be labeling him off the record as "selfish" as that would not play in Tadball, period. I welcome both, whether that is a stretch to think we will actually get both of them.

 

[YngC]

Boatwright is also NOT 6' 6". He was measured this season at 6 4 1/2" with his shoes on.

:wtf: