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reflections on the descent into football oblivion

BuffsNYC said:
The only coach who had already been a head coach in big time college football was Barnett (and he was the second choice and came from the Northwestern, the lowest rung of big time football).
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That sells Barnett a bit short. He had taken Northwestern, which was the bottom rung of college football when he got there, to the Rose Bowl. He had gotten interest as a coaching candidate from places like Texas. It's not as if we went out and hired just another coach that had made a career of finishing 9th in the Big Ten at NW....
 
Slade, I think you rank your "inness" a little bit high, in the grand scheme of college football.
 
Junction said:
That sells Barnett a bit short. He had taken Northwestern, which was the bottom rung of college football when he got there, to the Rose Bowl. He had gotten interest as a coaching candidate from places like Texas. It's not as if we went out and hired just another coach that had made a career of finishing 9th in the Big Ten at NW....
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Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame - I think even some NFL teams - all had given Barnett a look.

Barnett was in a bit of a Catch 22 when it came to the CU job. The real opportunity to hire him (when McCartney retired in 1994) was too early. Barnett hadn't even experienced a winning season at Northwestern by the time McCartney retired in 1994. And by the time Neuheisel left - it was too late -Barnett had gone 5-7 and 3-9 in his most recent years at Northwestern.
 
GoBuffs08 said:
What I really want to see is some type of major public commitment from CU admin for the football program. We have this horrible schedule to make up for lack of TV money this year. Why have we not announced any stadium or facility upgrades based on the guaranteed money we will be getting starting next year with the PAC TV contracts?
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This.

Seriously. So the AD has some loans outstanding that they're going to have to pay. We get that. It won't take 17 years to repay them. One or two is closer to the mark. So... make an announcement now that you're starting to plan for major facilities upgrades - with construction to begin in 2014. Make a big deal about selecting a design/architectural firm - even have them publicly submit design proposals. Involve donors, boosters and students in selecting between various possible designs. Now, make a big deal about selecting construction contractors. Drag the whole process out over the next two years. All the while, you're collecting donations from boosters and commitments from recruits based on these big plans.

Create the buzz, and next thing you know, 2014 is here and we are where UW is today... and, in the mean time, we the fans have something we can look forward to.
 
fatbuff said:
Not bad, but I think you give too much credence to Barney, and too little to the hiring of Hawkins. Barney had one season flash of greatness, and that is it. That team didnt belong in the NC with the defense that we had, and the perception of the key wins (NU,UT) were enhanced by not having wins like that in a long time.

Hawkins was the hot coach at the time he was hired, and no amount of hindsight can change that. If we didnt take him some other program certainly would have, and I think that the process may have been rushed because of that. Hawkins had a pretty bare cupboard himself, he just never got it stocked. We still had some credibility when Hawkins was hired, but that is long gone. If Embo busts, nothing short of an bottomless check book will get us a premier coach.
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Kind of strange seeing Liver post something of the length I would put in.

I think Barnett was a pretty good but not great coach. I also think that he saw the writing on the wall when the administration first started undermining the program then threw him under bus when he got the Duke lacrosse treatment.

I agree completely when you say that Hawkins was the hot coach. He would have been hired by an AQ level school if we didn't and I don't remember many people questioning the hire.

If by premier coach you mean someone who has a proven track record at the AQ level who is someone that consistent top 25 programs would want we haven't gotten those guys in the past and we won't in the future barring huge changes.

Embree had never been a coordinator and we were his only option at this level.
Hawkins was our highest profile hire but even he wasn't being bid for by top 25 programs, same with the other Boise coaches.
Barnett came from a program at Northwestern that had been a ranked program but was in decline and had some surrounding issues, he was never a PR guy to handle the non-football stuff and it cost him. He also wanted to come back to CU because it was "home" to him.
Neuhiesel wasn't even Mac's choice to follow and we didn't exactly have to outbid anyone for him
Mac had been locked in as a coordinator and was looked at as to old by most programs, he was not on the top of many list when he got the job.

Could keep going back but this shows we have never been a place where we can pick and choose from the top coaches. We have to find guys who will surprise people like Mac did instead of ride on past success.
 
during the time when CU was not "elite" according to someone in this thread, they went 8-0-1 against the sooners (1989-99).

... just thought i'd mention that.
 
Junction said:
That sells Barnett a bit short. He had taken Northwestern, which was the bottom rung of college football when he got there, to the Rose Bowl. He had gotten interest as a coaching candidate from places like Texas. It's not as if we went out and hired just another coach that had made a career of finishing 9th in the Big Ten at NW....
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It's hard to get a read on Barnett. Take away 95 & 96, and his Northwestern teams were not all that good. On the other hand, it's Northwestern and they are competing in the Big 10. So does a 3-5 record for Northwestern in the Big 10 mark a great coach? I don't know.

I personally believe schools like Northwestern or Air Force are a much better fit for Barnett. He can take the talent they have and get them to play above their ability. I don't think he can recruit the talent that is necessary to compete year-in year-out with the big boys. CU's talent was headed south under Barnett. How much of it was him? How much of it was the scandal? It's hard to tell.

I do agree with Liver. We have been on a slow descent to the bottom ever since Mac resigned. I always thought that 2001 was fools gold. I doubt that many people believed that the program was headed in the right direction after the 41-7 loss in Austin. After that, we won some games we were supposed to win and then came the shocker against Nebraska. I don't think many of us believed that we had much of a chance in the Big 12 championship game either. I don't think many of us thought that Simms would turn the ball over 4 times in that game.
 
You don't hire established BCS coaches - even at big time BCS schools. Florida hired Urban Meyer - a head coach at a MWC school. Then they hired Texas' defensive coordinator. OSU hired the head coach at Bowling Green (I think that's where the vest had coached), Oklahoma hired Florida's defensive coordinator. Michigan hired SDSU's head coach. CU just missed with Hawkins, but the forumula is essentially a good one.
 
JimmyBuff said:
89-99 was also the Sooners worst decade of football
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so i guess that means ou is not elite, then, because they had a period where they struggled. that would rule out bama and usc as well. gosh, who is elite? maybe michigan. oops, no. they are struggling. hmmmm... gosh, elite teams are hard to come by.
 
sackman said:
You don't hire established BCS coaches - even at big time BCS schools. Florida hired Urban Meyer - a head coach at a MWC school. Then they hired Texas' defensive coordinator. OSU hired the head coach at Bowling Green (I think that's where the vest had coached), Oklahoma hired Florida's defensive coordinator. Michigan hired SDSU's head coach. CU just missed with Hawkins, but the forumula is essentially a good one.
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Youngstown State .... a DII program!
 
Crash Davis said:
Money and facilities have to be mentioned somewhere as well. About a decade ago the AD began running in the red at pretty much the worst possible time: just as the nuclear arms race of gawdy new facilities and stadium facelifts began sweeping across college sports. With no cash on hand, the football program has gotten very little the last 10 years outside of some minor cosmetic projects. We have now fallen behind and have facilities that are well below average for a BCS school. Meanwhile a large segment of our fan base thinks that having mountains nearby is somehow supposed to make up for these other shortcomings....
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Good post. Nobody gives a **** about the mountains and scenery people. Elite athletes want to play top notch football not go on a sight seeing tour.
 
Liver said:
so i guess that means ou is not elite, then, because they had a period where they struggled. that would rule out bama and usc as well. gosh, who is elite? maybe michigan. oops, no. they are struggling. hmmmm... gosh, elite teams are hard to come by.
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Don't forget Nebraska and Texas, they just missed out on being elite teams with their sucky decades as well
 
JimmyBuff said:
Good post. Nobody gives a **** about the mountains and scenery people. Elite athletes want to play top notch football not go on a sight seeing tour.
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not true, do you know how many elite former CU players fell in love with this place because of the scenery and proximity to a big city. Alfred Williams is a prime example as he said he was sold when the went over the hill on 36 and saw the view. He was about to go to Georgia until he saw that.
 
Jens1893 said:
Youngstown State .... a DII program!
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Right - Youngstown. Thanks.

I would go so far as to say that the majority of coaches that do get hired from big(er) time programs generally flame out at their new jobs. Francione, Neuhisel, Price, Rodriguez...
 
Unleash Hell said:
not true, do you know how many elite former CU players fell in love with this place because of the scenery and proximity to a big city. Alfred Williams is a prime example as he said he was sold when the went over the hill on 36 and saw the view. He was about to go to Georgia until he saw that.
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Alfred Williams says a lot of things.


If it was true then we wouldn't have had any problem landing elite athletes for the last 15 years.
 
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