Rutgers' Mike Rice on thin ice

[cubuffs85]

Okay, but now that it's clear where society stands, I want every coach fired who refers to his team as "ladies". Not to mention every coach who grabs a player when they don't set a screen right, or don't box out properly.

There's a big difference between calling someone a "lady" and calling someone a "***." I don't think I really need to explain this to you.

Also, a big difference between grabbing a player once versus a repeated pattern. And I thought Cal(and/or the P12) should've done more, but it wasn't a fireable offense.

Like Buffnik said, where are you going with this? Because other coaches do what Rice does, it's OK? I'll try using that one the next time, I get pulled over for speeding.

 

[CVilleBuff]

I think some people are just defending Rice just to be contrarian like anything else. Others are doing so to make their point about a softer society. Lots of things acceptable in the 1950-60s are NOT OK in 2013. Things change over time.

And some people just buy into media hype, apparently. Did this really need to overshadow the Final Four? Rice crossed the line with physicality. However, Pernetti did not deserve to be pushed out. The suspension of Rice and the fine were quite significant. I'm curious about what precedent this sets - mainly with the fact Mike Montgomery's "incident" was even a story. Are we reaching the point where any sort of verbal lashing of a team when they play like **** is dangerous territory? What about shoving a player into position when he does something wrong during a drill? Is this an isolated case of crossing the line? I doubt it. I bet we have a flurry of "coaching abuse" theme in the media in coming months.

 

[CVilleBuff]

There's a big difference between calling someone a "lady" and calling someone a "***." I don't think I really need to explain this to you.

Also, a big difference between grabbing a player once versus a repeated pattern. And I thought Cal(and/or the P12) should've done more, but it wasn't a fireable offense.

Like Buffnik said, where are you going with this? Because other coaches do what Rice does, it's OK? I'll try using that one the next time, I get pulled over for speeding.

It's okay to be derogatory towards women? Interesting. Either wipe it all out or keep it. It seems we're picking and choosing.

 

[NWD Buff]

http://deadspin.com/saturday-night-...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

:lol:

 

[CVilleBuff]

http://deadspin.com/saturday-night-...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

:lol:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/jerry-sandusky-horrified-by-behavior-of-rutgers-ba,31926/

 

[cubuffs85]

It's okay to be derogatory towards women? Interesting. Either wipe it all out or keep it. It seems we're picking and choosing.

Yes, there's a big difference between the severity of the words used. A lady isn't as bad as "****." I'm sure they'd get admonished, but I doubt it's a fireable offense. I've already said, if it was just some homophobia slurs, I think Rice might still be employed. It was the combo of the two.

 

[CVilleBuff]

Yes, there's a big difference between the severity of the words used. A lady isn't as bad as "****." I'm sure they'd get admonished, but I doubt it's a fireable offense. I've already said, if it was just some homophobia slurs, I think Rice might still be employed. It was the combo of the two.

You're probably right re: slurs, although I don't think we can be altogether certain of that had the media really drummed it up. To be clear, my main point is I don't think Pernetti needed to be forced out. I don't think the President needs to go. I don't think Chris Christie and Barack Obama need to be impeached. I don't think Ban Ki Moon needs to resign. Rice crossed the line with throwing the basketballs forcefully. However, much of his shoving players into place is literally no different than basketball teams most kids are on in 7th grade. To me, had Pernetti knowingly taken NO action, that's a different story. Yet he came down rather harshly. I don't think he foresaw the ****storm this would turn into -- I really don't think anyone did. The media tends to pick and choose. Even a few Rutgers players have voiced support.

Frankly, I would have no issue if after some time off, Rice showed he was "reformed" and worked his way back the hard way by starting as an assistant at Le Moyne and showing himself a changed man. I believe in redemption. It's an entirely different scenario, albeit despicable in its own right, but the basketball world is better off with Larry Eustachy having worked his way back the hard way. Least of all, I do not think Pernetti now needs to be banished from athletics and unemployable for the rest of his life. That's entirely overboard IMO.

 

[cubuffs85]

And some people just buy into media hype, apparently. Did this really need to overshadow the Final Four? Rice crossed the line with physicality. However, Pernetti did not deserve to be pushed out. The suspension of Rice and the fine were quite significant. I'm curious about what precedent this sets - mainly with the fact Mike Montgomery's "incident" was even a story. Are we reaching the point where any sort of verbal lashing of a team when they play like **** is dangerous territory? What about shoving a player into position when he does something wrong during a drill? Is this an isolated case of crossing the line? I doubt it. I bet we have a flurry of "coaching abuse" theme in the media in coming months.

I don't think it's overshadowing the Final Four, now that's its underway. When has video surfaced of a similar incident(s) since Bobby Knight and that was very brief compared to this. Pernetti needed to be pushed out, he didn't do enough and showed a serious lapse of judgment. A big part of his job is monitoring and/or managing the highly visible coaches. You are clearly in the minority on this one (which I think you are doing just to make a point).

You seem to be big on the Mike Montgomery thing, you can't even compare the two. That was a quick exchange during the middle of the game in the heat of the moment. This was a repeated pattern. You don't seriously think the two incidents are on the same level?

Again, you need serious evidence to do anything. If the video doesn't go on OTL, Rice is still employed. This isn't that complicated, you can't be a highly paid/visible representative of the state and have this big of a "smoking gun."

 

[Buffnik]

This brings up an interesting question (at least I think it's interesting). Do we believe that certain behaviors are acceptable from a coach that we wouldn't accept from anyone else in a position of authority?

Can a professor try to get the most of out her students by belittling their heritage, pushing them and questioning their sexuality?

Would you accept that from your boss at work?

How about a scout troop leader if enough cookies weren't being sold?

It seems that for far too long in our society we have accepted a management style from coaches, even glorified it, that we would never tolerate from others in our society.

 

[MtnBuff]

If Rice had been winning the outcome may have been very different. He deserved to get fired for his actions, he was probably going to get fired this year or next for his poor record.

By acting stupidly he opened the door for the school to fire him for cause avoiding paying the rest of his salary. They may have wanted a different AD as well to make the next hire so the timing worked out well in that regard as well.

 

[cubuffs85]

If Rice had been winning the outcome may have been very different. He deserved to get fired for his actions, he was probably going to get fired this year or next for his poor record.

By acting stupidly he opened the door for the school to fire him for cause avoiding paying the rest of his salary. They may have wanted a different AD as well to make the next hire so the timing worked out well in that regard as well.

I disagree that a winning coach would've made much of a difference, particularly if it's a public university. While I think it would've made it harder in some ways if it was a great coach, but the pressure of outside groups would've forced him out IMO. If he were a winning coach, I could see many calling out Rutgers for making "winning more important than conduct." If winning was the only thing that mattered, than Bobby Petrino still is at Arkansas. Sure there are cases like Rick Pitino, where they probably get fired, if they are losing; but that's more harm caused to himself than others.

 

[MtnBuff]

I disagree that a winning coach would've made much of a difference, particularly if it's a public university. While I think it would've made it harder in some ways if it was a great coach, but the pressure of outside groups would've forced him out IMO. If he were a winning coach, I could see many calling out Rutgers for making "winning more important than conduct." If winning was the only thing that mattered, than Bobby Petrino still is at Arkansas. Sure there are cases like Rick Pitino, where they probably get fired, if they are losing; but that's more harm caused to himself than others.

It would depend on the school but if he were highly successfull they may have been more willing to settle for a "disciplinary action" and "plan for change." The general public would still have been upset but he would have had a chance to keep his job. If the pressure got great enough he may have still been fired but not as easily as he was in this situation.

Bobby Knight shoved used toilet paper in a kids face and kept his job.

 

[TDbuff]

It would depend on the school but if he were highly successfull they may have been more willing to settle for a "disciplinary action" and "plan for change." The general public would still have been upset but he would have had a chance to keep his job. If the pressure got great enough he may have still been fired but not as easily as he was in this situation.

Bobby Knight shoved used toilet paper in a kids face and kept his job.

The video is the key part. Once that gets cycled on every station, it doesn't matter who was wrong or right, it looks horrible and there's no coming back from it. Knight got away with everything before it was taped and the internet made everything accessible.

 

[cubuffs85]

It would depend on the school but if he were highly successfull they may have been more willing to settle for a "disciplinary action" and "plan for change." The general public would still have been upset but he would have had a chance to keep his job. If the pressure got great enough he may have still been fired but not as easily as he was in this situation.

Bobby Knight shoved used toilet paper in a kids face and kept his job.

Ok let me ask you this, which coaches do you think could've kept their job if it was them in that video and NOT Rice? The one name I heard was Coach K and I'm not even convinced he would've been given a free pass. But since Duke is a private university, they don't have to answer to anyone else. If the boosters and rank-and-file fans are still donating and buying tickets respectively, I could see that. But I some Martha Burk-type organization would stage rallies and stuff, so I'm just not sure. Both Rice and the AD were fired on public opinion alone.

Do you think Bobby Knight could've gotten away with that in 2013? He did lose his job after all eventually.

 

[CVilleBuff]

I disagree that a winning coach would've made much of a difference, particularly if it's a public university. While I think it would've made it harder in some ways if it was a great coach, but the pressure of outside groups would've forced him out IMO. If he were a winning coach, I could see many calling out Rutgers for making "winning more important than conduct." If winning was the only thing that mattered, than Bobby Petrino still is at Arkansas. Sure there are cases like Rick Pitino, where they probably get fired, if they are losing; but that's more harm caused to himself than others.

A winning coach absolutely would have not lost his job over this. There would have been consequences, but if Rice's record was 244-51 and well-established at Rutgers instead of 44-51, he would NOT be fired, nor would Pernetti be forced out. The Pernetti situation is what irks me the most. 50k fine, non payment for the games he was out and the suspension shows Pernetti took action. The man (Pernetti) does not deserve his career utterly ended over this.

 

[CVilleBuff]

Ok let me ask you this, which coaches do you think could've kept their job if it was them in that video and NOT Rice? The one name I heard was Coach K and I'm not even convinced he would've been given a free pass. But since Duke is a private university, they don't have to answer to anyone else. If the boosters and rank-and-file fans are still donating and buying tickets respectively, I could see that. But I some Martha Burk-type organization would stage rallies and stuff, so I'm just not sure. Both Rice and the AD were fired on public opinion alone.

Do you think Bobby Knight could've gotten away with that in 2013? He did lose his job after all eventually.

Coach K does shockingly nasty things in practice, and I'm not just saying that. I'm not saying he's Mike Rice, but if you think K hasn't verbally abused players and shoved them around, you're in for a major surprise. The difference is K's Gestapo would never let that film slip out. There's a VERY nasty side to K.

 

[CVilleBuff]

This brings up an interesting question (at least I think it's interesting). Do we believe that certain behaviors are acceptable from a coach that we wouldn't accept from anyone else in a position of authority?

Can a professor try to get the most of out her students by belittling their heritage, pushing them and questioning their sexuality?

Would you accept that from your boss at work?

How about a scout troop leader if enough cookies weren't being sold?

It seems that for far too long in our society we have accepted a management style from coaches, even glorified it, that we would never tolerate from others in our society.

Absolutely we do. And that's part of what I'm questioning -- is this going to be the start of a paradigm change in sports? Is calling your team "ladies" now a serious (potentially fireable) offense? (I don't condone that, but I say that because it's a common term used). Is physically touching a player in any way, for instance after they don't box out in practice and get shoved into position by a frustrated coach a dangerous thing to do now? The media is going to be circling like vultures now. It's like anything else with the media - SHARK ATTACKS GONE MAD. This is going to get heavy coverage now. Every trivial, questionable offense. I keep bringing up Montgomery because I see it as a precursor of this. That literally would not have even been mentioned in past years (and I'm not exactly an old man, here).

 

[cubuffs85]

A winning coach absolutely would have not lost his job over this. There would have been consequences, but if Rice's record was 244-51 and well-established at Rutgers instead of 44-51, he would NOT be fired, nor would Pernetti be forced out. The Pernetti situation is what irks me the most. 50k, non payment for the games he was out, and the suspension shows he took action. The man (Pernetti) does not deserve his career utterly ended over this.

A very light suspension given everything, which every reasonable person said after viewing the video. And remember Pernetti, said he "wanted" to fire him, after he was forced out. But he claimed before he was forced out, that he thought "rehabilitation" was the right step. He's lying one of the two times about what he wanted to do. I tend to think he wanted the latter. He's trying to save face, since he knows in any future job interview, he'll be forced to defend this so it's convenient to pass off blame.

Again, monitoring one of your most visible athletic programs is a big job of the AD. The outrage wouldn't be there if this was the track team.

 

[cubuffs85]

Coach K does shockingly nasty things in practice, and I'm not just saying that. I'm not saying he's Mike Rice, but if you think K hasn't verbally abused players and shoved them around, you're in for a major surprise. The difference is K's Gestapo would never let that film slip out. There's a VERY nasty side to K.

The lack of smoking gun is kind of a big deal... I mean it's a huge deal. If this isn't all over YouTube, Mike Rice is still coaching Rutgers.

 

[cubuffs85]

The video is the key part. Once that gets cycled on every station, it doesn't matter who was wrong or right, it looks horrible and there's no coming back from it. Knight got away with everything before it was taped and the internet made everything accessible.

That's the part some people just don't get. Didn't Bobby Knight win after all? Wasn't he an Indiana legend? He thought he could get away with this stuff(and for a long time, he was right), but he overplayed his hand. Many thought Myles Brand didn't go far enough when they initially gave him zero-tolerance.

 

[CVilleBuff]

A very light suspension given everything, which every reasonable person said after viewing the video. And remember Pernetti, said he "wanted" to fire him, after he was forced out. But he claimed before he was forced out, that he thought "rehabilitation" was the right step. He's lying one of the two times about what he wanted to do. I tend to think he wanted the latter. He's trying to save face, since he knows in any future job interview, he'll be forced to defend this so it's convenient to pass off blame.

Again, monitoring one of your most visible athletic programs is a big job of the AD. The outrage wouldn't be there if this was the track team.

I guess we disagree on whether being banished from any contact with the program for multiple weeks, paying a $50,000 dollar fine is a light punishment. When I look at the video, neither what he is saying, or doing the common practice of pushing players into position is a fireable offense. It's the throwing the basketballs that is the issue. Should the punishment have been heavier? Yeah. However, to me, Pernetti took action and it's not as light as it's being portrayed. That's not worthy of ruining his career. Had he known and done nothing at all, it would be a different story. And again, where should this stop? The Rutgers president must go then -- where was the oversight from him? Why wasn't Chris Christie aware of what was going on at his flagship university? Where do we stop?

Got rid of Rice in light of media uproar. Move on. This is turning into Rutgersgate

 

[CVilleBuff]

The biggest shame of the matter is that while Ed Rush is gone, we let the Rutgers story dwarf Ed Rush and the Pac-12. Which, arguably, has much graver consequences for the integrity of college basketball than one coach with a bad temper.

 

[cubuffs85]

I guess we disagree on whether being banished from any contact with the program for multiple weeks, paying a $50,000 dollar fine is a light punishment. When I look at the video, neither what he is saying, or doing the common practice of pushing players into position is a fireable offense. It's the throwing the basketballs that is the issue. Should the punishment have been heavier? Yeah. However, to me, Pernetti took action and it's not as light as it's being portrayed. That's not worthy of ruining his career. Had he known and done nothing at all, it would be a different story. And again, where should this stop? The Rutgers president must go then -- where was the oversight from him? Why wasn't Chris Christie aware of what was going on at his flagship university? Where do we stop?

Got rid of Rice in light of media uproar. Move on. This is turning into Rutgersgate

Three games and 50k for someone of his stature isn't that much. If it was your normal rank-and-file employee, sure. And I guarantee you Pernetti and his inner circle thought the public would be OK with this. I think your downplaying, how much monitoring your big-time sports matters. And let's not forget Pernetti hired Rice, so it was in his best interest for this hire to work. It's like what Warren Buffett says (paraphrasing), "It takes 20 years to build up a reputation and five minutes to destroy it." If this isn't worthy over ruining his career, don't worry, some other BCS program will hire him to be their AD?

And yes, the President should be fired. The buck stops with him. He should've reviewed the video. And he signed off on the AD's move.

Accountability matters.

 

[CVilleBuff]

Three games and 50k for someone of his stature isn't that much. If it was your normal rank-and-file employee, sure. And I guarantee you Pernetti and his inner circle thought the public would be OK with this. I think your downplaying, how much monitoring your big-time sports matters. And let's not forget Pernetti hired Rice, so it was in his best interest for this hire to work. It's like what Warren Buffett says (paraphrasing), "It takes 20 years to build up a reputation and five minutes to destroy it." If this isn't worthy over ruining his career, don't worry, some other BCS program will hire him to be their AD?

And yes, the President should be fired. The buck stops with him. He should've reviewed the video. And he signed off on the AD's move.

Accountability matters.

Three games non-salary (and non-contact with anything related to the team or campus) and 50k fine comes out to about 25% of Rice's yearly salary. Should it have been harsher (like, forced resignation?) Yes. But Pernetti's action shows at least a degree of accountability that doesn't warrant utter career destruction.

So if the president should go, should we look into New Jersey state government next? Who's accountable for appointing such a despicable president? I mean, where does this stop? The accountability thing sounds nice, but somewhere reality and practicality has to take over. A guy threw a basketball at a player. This isn't Jerry Sandusky.

 

[cubuffs85]

Three games non-salary and 50k fine comes out to about 20% of Rice's yearly salary. Should it have been harsher (like, forced resignation?) Yes. But Pernetti's action shows at least a degree of accountability that doesn't warrant utter career destruction.

A

Probably more games if anything. Again, the penalty would've been accepted had OTL never aired that report. Pernetti wasn't smart enough to figure that out. Do you believe Pernetti wanted to fire him like he now claims? Or he is lying about that?

Not sure why it's career destruction, can't another program hire him? Won't some University President view this as lightly as you do?

 

[CVilleBuff]

Probably more games if anything. Again, the penalty would've been accepted had OTL never aired that report. Pernetti wasn't smart enough to figure that out. Do you believe Pernetti wanted to fire him like he now claims? Or he is lying about that?

Not sure why it's career destruction, can't another program hire him? Won't some University President view this as lightly as you do?

For one thing, he's a Rutgers grad and was in his dream job, just having landed Rutgers in their dream conference. That shouldn't make for special exceptions, but unfortunately, my common sense on a message board won't go over as well in his actual job interviews as university academia will raise holy hell without looking deeply into the facts. He's severely tainted now, wrongly so in my opinion. He may very well be able to work his way back up the hard way over years and years, but his career is now effectively destroyed. We won't be seeing Pernetti, a 42 year old who was one of the new up and comer AD's as an AD at a BCS conference school ever again. If he's lucky, he'll be Eastern Michigan's AD in 2027.

 

[cubuffs85]

For one thing, he's a Rutgers grad and was in his dream job, just having landed Rutgers in their dream conference. That shouldn't make for special exceptions, but unfortunately, my common sense on a message board won't go over as well in his actual job interviews as university academia will raise holy hell without looking deeply into the facts. He's severely tainted now, wrongly so in my opinion. He may very well be able to work his way back up the hard way over years and years, but his career is now effectively destroyed. We won't be seeing Pernetti, a 42 year old who was one of the new up and comer AD's as an AD at a BCS conference school ever again. If he's lucky, he'll be Eastern Michigan's AD in 2027.

Only takes one visionary to say he got a raw deal, will hire him to some low level position at our no-name university and he can start-up again.

ADs always want "their" hires to work. If Rice had been hired by another AD, good chance Pernetti would've just fired him to begin with. It's a poor reflection on the AD when they don't land a quality hire in a visible sport. Just ask Mike Bohn.

All ADs know they are one major mistake away from being fired. There's a small margin for error. That's really true across all prominent positions. Ask George O'Leary or Mike Price.

 

[Buffnik]

The video is the key part. Once that gets cycled on every station, it doesn't matter who was wrong or right, it looks horrible and there's no coming back from it. Knight got away with everything before it was taped and the internet made everything accessible.

Knight was also a different era. It was as wrong then as it is now, but awareness is different now. My dad tells me stories about things his coaches did and laughs nostalgically about them while saying how much he loved his coach and appreciates it toughening him up. Things like his football coach ripping a chunk of a kid's hair out because the coach thought it was too long. I remember going to my grandma's funeral and in the church basement after-meal, all these guys in their late 50s were hanging out with my dad all talking about Coach. Coach came to pay his respects and was a quiet old man. He told them he was sorry for all that and that he was wrong. My dad and his pals didn't want to hear it. I think they all suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

P.S. Coach K is very smart in how he insulates himself from outside (even university) criticism. He's got a basketball operation run by his daughter that keeps it all locked up tight. It's ripe for a Paterno/Sandusky-type scandal.

 

[MtnBuff]

CVille hits on the key point here. There are a number of programs in the country where this or even worse would never have gotten out. The transgressions of the kNU football players, the OU football players, etc., etc. were well known in those communities and states yet never addressed publicly because of the influence of the schools and of those in the community who supported the programs.

If Nebraska had a consistent top 10-20 basketball program under a coach do you think this tape gets out on that coach, not if the reporter wants to keep his job in Nebraska. How about the same thing in certain schools in Texas or the SEC where the university is king.

Don't get me wrong, Mike Rice should have been fired for what he did and any other coach doing the same things in the same context should be fired as well. All I am saying is that the fact that Mike Rice was likely on a path to being fired for lack of wins in the next year or two made it much easier. I can see a lot of coaches who could safely do the same thing and not have to worry about their jobs because they win.

Knight did get fired but it wasn't as much for what he did as it was for not living up to the standards that he himself had set for the success of the program. They started having some "bad" seasons by earlier standards and that in combination with Knight rubbing some money people the wrong way led to his firing. Had he hung up another NC banner in the last 2-3 years he would have had the job for another 10 if he wanted it.

Pernetti will have another chance to work his way back up the ladder although it will be a little more slippery this time. He will either go to an AD job in a lower level school or an assistants job at a major school. In a few years he will be able to say that he had made a mistake, didn't have all the information, and acted on the wishes of his superiors and will be forgiven to an extent.

In time he should get another shot at a mid-major program. Do well there and in time he could be back in a major conference. We live in a pretty forgiving society, especially if a guy ask for forgiveness and can put some distance between himself and the actual offenses that occured. This is especially true if the guy can bring you some wins. Great example of this is Eustacy at CSU. If he were 10 years younger and happened to get CSU into the sweet 16 how many schools would be more than willing to forget his past and hire him.

 

[cubuffs85]

CVille hits on the key point here. There are a number of programs in the country where this or even worse would never have gotten out. The transgressions of the kNU football players, the OU football players, etc., etc. were well known in those communities and states yet never addressed publicly because of the influence of the schools and of those in the community who supported the programs.

If Nebraska had a consistent top 10-20 basketball program under a coach do you think this tape gets out on that coach, not if the reporter wants to keep his job in Nebraska. How about the same thing in certain schools in Texas or the SEC where the university is king.

Don't get me wrong, Mike Rice should have been fired for what he did and any other coach doing the same things in the same context should be fired as well. All I am saying is that the fact that Mike Rice was likely on a path to being fired for lack of wins in the next year or two made it much easier. I can see a lot of coaches who could safely do the same thing and not have to worry about their jobs because they win.

Knight did get fired but it wasn't as much for what he did as it was for not living up to the standards that he himself had set for the success of the program. They started having some "bad" seasons by earlier standards and that in combination with Knight rubbing some money people the wrong way led to his firing. Had he hung up another NC banner in the last 2-3 years he would have had the job for another 10 if he wanted it.

Pernetti will have another chance to work his way back up the ladder although it will be a little more slippery this time. He will either go to an AD job in a lower level school or an assistants job at a major school. In a few years he will be able to say that he had made a mistake, didn't have all the information, and acted on the wishes of his superiors and will be forgiven to an extent.

In time he should get another shot at a mid-major program. Do well there and in time he could be back in a major conference. We live in a pretty forgiving society, especially if a guy ask for forgiveness and can put some distance between himself and the actual offenses that occured. This is especially true if the guy can bring you some wins. Great example of this is Eustacy at CSU. If he were 10 years younger and happened to get CSU into the sweet 16 how many schools would be more than willing to forget his past and hire him.

50 years ago, sure when the media protected their subjects -- press knew JFK had affairs, said nothing... press knew FDR was handicapped, didn't report it. In today's journalism era with the Matt Drudge's of the world out there, I wouldn't be too short if everyone just follows "protocol. "

That's really false, many wanted Knight retained because he was legend. There was more patience a decade ago than there is today. I didn't hear anyone saying they wanted him gone because of the lack of relative failure. Remember all the students gathering at his house after he was canned to "support" him. Once the video surfaced, he was on notice. The University had tried to reign him in before but they were afraid to do anything for fear of alienating him. By the time, the Neil Reed video surfaced, there was a smoking gun.

Pernetti has already said that much. I don't believe him, but it's what he has to say.