SBNation discusses coaches often mentioned as on the Hot Seat

[The Alabaster Yak]

If MacIntyre doesn't show significant progress this fall, then year 4 won't be any better. Last season was nice in some aspects, but nothing really tangible came out of it. If there's a similar showing this fall, then the doldrums will really settle in.

That 4th year could really get the feeling of a lameduck year, and I think RG realizes he can't afford that with the money they've invested.

Are you talking about the money invested in facilities? If so, that's irrelevant to this discussion as that was happening regardless of coaching situation. If anything, the financial motivations should be on the side of keeping MM around to avoid a 3rd buyout in 5 years.

 

[BlackNGold]

Are you talking about the money invested in facilities? If so, that's irrelevant to this discussion as that was happening regardless of coaching situation. If anything, the financial motivations should be on the side of keeping MM around to avoid a 3rd buyout in 5 years.

How can you say that the investments in facilities are not relevant to the discussion? When CU hired MacIntyre the investment in the facilities was tied into his hiring. Donors were asked to invest in CU football. If those donors feel they are not getting much for their investment it can add to the pressure on the Head Coach.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

How can you say that the investments in facilities are not relevant to the discussion? When CU hired MacIntyre the investment in the facilities was tied into his hiring. Donors were asked to invest in CU football. If those donors feel they are not getting much for their investment it can add to the pressure on the Head Coach.

I think donors were asked to invest in the sustainable success of CU football, not the coach. The coach was a part of the vision, yes, but this facilities upgrade was so much bigger for the long term view of the program than simply being "tied to HCMM". These facilities would have gotten done with any coach at the helm, post JE.

 

[TDbuff]

Are you talking about the money invested in facilities? If so, that's irrelevant to this discussion as that was happening regardless of coaching situation. If anything, the financial motivations should be on the side of keeping MM around to avoid a 3rd buyout in 5 years.

We're investing $170 million in a giant facility to help us win football games, but we're going to keep MacIntyre around an extra year to save $6 million even if we think he's most likely going to keep losing?

I hope we've moved past that short-sighted way of doing business.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

We're investing $170 million in a giant facility to help us win football games, but we're going to keep MacIntyre around an extra year to save $6 million even if we think he's most likely going to keep losing?

I hope we've moved past that short-sighted way of doing business.

Like I said above, I believe the facilities were getting done regardless of the success on the field, attendance at games, recruiting success, or who the coach was going to be post Embree.

Rick George has mentioned stability as a key part of continuing to build the foundation of the program, and also mentioned that the program is 3-5 years from being where they want it to be. Short of a scandal or 2012 type seasons in '15 and '16, I truly believe RG is taking a very long term approach and firing MM is considered a last resort. That's just my opinion, though.

 

[Gary Indiana]

I think the odds of him being fired after 2015 are pretty low. But if he doesn't win 5 or more games, he will really need to win big in 2016 to show he deserves to keep the job. Four or less wins in 2015 and he will need 8 or more wins in 2016 to keep his job. If he loses to CSU again this year the heat gets turned up even more.

 

[Burrito]

If MacIntyre doesn't show significant progress this fall, then year 4 won't be any better. Last season was nice in some aspects, but nothing really tangible came out of it. If there's a similar showing this fall, then the doldrums will really settle in.

That 4th year could really get the feeling of a lameduck year, and I think RG realizes he can't afford that with the money they've invested.

/BMac.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

I think the odds of him being fired after 2015 are pretty low. But if he doesn't win 5 or more games, he will really need to win big in 2016 to show he deserves to keep the job. Four or less wins in 2015 and he will need 8 or more wins in 2016 to keep his job. If he loses to CSU again this year the heat gets turned up even more.

That seems about right. I don't think George is endlessly patient.

 

[BuffWarHog]

MacIntyre won't be fired unless 2015 is a disaster. Yes, attendance needs to improve and that happens primarily from the on-field play quality, but this program cannot keep churning through coaches.

This. Who could they even possibly get to come here? She Barnett got fired, people were like "I understand why, whether I agree or not." When Hawkins got fired, people were like "weird. He probably just didn't fit with that system and CU isn't far far from recent success." When Embree got fired, people were like "what the hell was he doing there in the first place." If MM gets fired, people will be like "CU either needs to got DII or drop football because NO ONE can win there and NO ONE gets support."


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[The Alabaster Yak]

This. Who could they even possibly get to come here? She Barnett got fired, people were like "I understand why, whether I agree or not." When Hawkins got fired, people were like "weird. He probably just didn't fit with that system and CU isn't far far from recent success." When Embree got fired, people were like "what the hell was he doing there in the first place." If MM gets fired, people will be like "CU either needs to got DII or drop football because NO ONE can win there and NO ONE gets support."


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We'd probably wreck DII, though!

 

[Burrito]

We'd probably wreck DII, though!

I know just the guy!

 

[fatbuff]

This. Who could they even possibly get to come here? She Barnett got fired, people were like "I understand why, whether I agree or not." When Hawkins got fired, people were like "weird. He probably just didn't fit with that system and CU isn't far far from recent success." When Embree got fired, people were like "what the hell was he doing there in the first place." If MM gets fired, people will be like "CU either needs to got DII or drop football because NO ONE can win there and NO ONE gets support."


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When Embo and Dh were fired, people were like " What the **** took so long? CU will pay anybody to coach football." MM isn't the kind of coach that people will be surprised that he couldn't get it done. He doesn't have a track record in P5.

 

[SINKRATZ]

It's nearly impossible to find someone to coach football for $2-3 million a year. You'd have to find a real sucker to come here.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I'd have to agree with fatty and sink, hiring a guy won't really be a problem. We're already too ****ty to get a "name" guy unless we line up the firing to when Texas decides to get rid of Strong or something like that. Other than that, we'd be able to get pretty much any coordinator. Remember that Alabama was fresh off 3 nattys in 4 years or something? and the best McElwain could do was CSU.

 

[onealcd]

I don't know about that. Brand new facilities and low expectations could allow George to get someone good if they believe they will be given time. Bohn almost landed butch jones so I would be interested in who RG could go get.

 

[rosstr]

This. Who could they even possibly get to come here? She Barnett got fired, people were like "I understand why, whether I agree or not." When Hawkins got fired, people were like "weird. He probably just didn't fit with that system and CU isn't far far from recent success." When Embree got fired, people were like "what the hell was he doing there in the first place." If MM gets fired, people will be like "CU either needs to got DII or drop football because NO ONE can win there and NO ONE gets support."


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Colorado, despite our problems, is a goldmine. We just built 170 million dollars worth of facilities. And we hired a no name coach, with no pedigree, who recruits terribly, where he went 1-17 in his first two years, has a pending losing season in his third year, with attendance the lowest in 20 years ... and he his is so safe that he is mostly guaranteed a fourth year.

I don't get how you could say the bolded above.

 

[TDbuff]

This. Who could they even possibly get to come here? She Barnett got fired, people were like "I understand why, whether I agree or not." When Hawkins got fired, people were like "weird. He probably just didn't fit with that system and CU isn't far far from recent success." When Embree got fired, people were like "what the hell was he doing there in the first place." If MM gets fired, people will be like "CU either needs to got DII or drop football because NO ONE can win there and NO ONE gets support."

That perception is over. There's too much money involved. People would be more impressed that we're not holding on to a lameduck 4th year coach.

 

[BuffWarHog]

Uh, ok - to all the above. I'll have whatever you're all smoking.

Maybe we can find some assistant special teams coordinator to come here for 2-3 million.


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[SINKRATZ]

Uh, ok - to all the above. I'll have whatever you're all smoking.

Maybe we can find some assistant special teams coordinator to come here for 2-3 million.


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If we're lucky, right? What coordinator in their right mind would want to triple or quadruple their salary to run their own P5 program? It will never happen. We are stuck, we either keep Mac regardless of performance or drop football. People better get used to the idea.

 

[slider]

RG has single-handedly made CU an exponentially more attractive destination for potential HC's

 

[Buffnik]

RG has single-handedly made CU an exponentially more attractive destination for potential HC's

"Single-handedly" is hyperbole, but he does deserve the vast majority of the credit.

The year HCMM was hired, there was some chatter that the Buffs were interested in hiring Dave Doeren. He made a comment, iirc, that he chose NC State without giving us much consideration because their facilities were already done (not just an unfunded plan).

If CU were looking for a new HC after this season (for whatever reason), I'd expect that this job has become a lot more attractive. Facilities being the main thing, but there are some foundational things with the program if someone looks closely that make it easier to build now such as class balance (especially in the trenches).

 

[slider]

"Single-handedly" is hyperbole, but he does deserve the vast majority of the credit.

The year HCMM was hired, there was some chatter that the Buffs were interested in hiring Dave Doeren. He made a comment, iirc, that he chose NC State without giving us much consideration because their facilities were already done (not just an unfunded plan).

If CU were looking for a new HC after this season (for whatever reason), I'd expect that this job has become a lot more attractive. Facilities being the main thing, but there are some foundational things with the program if someone looks closely that make it easier to build now such as class balance (especially in the trenches).

Who else deserves credit?

 

[Buffnik]

Who else deserves credit?

Bruce Benson for personally donating a large sum and for finally opening his Rolodex for athletics fundraising.

Phil DiStefano for being supportive -- with the political winds favoring support for athletics, he's useful to the effort.

Larry Scott for making the Pac-12 such a strong conference that people want to be a part of.

Mike MacIntyre for stabilizing and enhancing some things with the program while being involved in facility design with good insight into functionality.

Others in the administration and booster community. Even Bohn deserves some credit. Even Tharpe and Barnett. Plans didn't start when RG showed up. RG got them moving. The very act of hiring him at his price tag, however, showed that the CU leadership and culture was ready for this to happen -- he was brought in to make that happen and to start running the AD more like a business. CU wanted it now.

Rick George deserves most of the credit. He has been a strong leader who has delivered. But he's had support to make the dream happen. Even though I'd say that this wouldn't have happened on this timeline without him, it hasn't been "single-handed".

 

[Duff Man]

It is a decent P5 job with new facilities on the horizon. Plenty of interest will be there.

 

[MtnBuff]

"Single-handedly" is hyperbole, but he does deserve the vast majority of the credit.

The year HCMM was hired, there was some chatter that the Buffs were interested in hiring Dave Doeren. He made a comment, iirc, that he chose NC State without giving us much consideration because their facilities were already done (not just an unfunded plan).

If CU were looking for a new HC after this season (for whatever reason), I'd expect that this job has become a lot more attractive. Facilities being the main thing, but there are some foundational things with the program if someone looks closely that make it easier to build now such as class balance (especially in the trenches).

I would agree with facilities being a big point for potential coaches.

As big, if not bigger, and facilities are a part of this is that they can now sell a change in priorites in Boulder.

For the better part of the last decade it would have been very easy for a prospective coach to look at the CU football program and say "This is a program that doesn't care if it wins or not." The constant decisions to go the "cheap" way, the unwillingness of upper administration to commit to supporting success over other priorities, the perception (mostly true) that Bohn was a hired lap dog all lead to the easy assumption that CU was a career killing job.

Now with the facilities, with an AD that appears to be running his show and who is willing to strive for success, with a change of heart from above on athletic priorities the CU job should be an easier sell to a prospective HC.

 

[Buffnik]

I would agree with facilities being a big point for potential coaches.

As big, if not bigger, and facilities are a part of this is that they can now sell a change in priorites in Boulder.

For the better part of the last decade it would have been very easy for a prospective coach to look at the CU football program and say "This is a program that doesn't care if it wins or not." The constant decisions to go the "cheap" way, the unwillingness of upper administration to commit to supporting success over other priorities, the perception (mostly true) that Bohn was a hired lap dog all lead to the easy assumption that CU was a career killing job.

Now with the facilities, with an AD that appears to be running his show and who is willing to strive for success, with a change of heart from above on athletic priorities the CU job should be an easier sell to a prospective HC.

It certainly helps that the program has put APR issues well into the rearview mirror (Embree did a nice job there, continued by HCMM) and has also stopped the Bohn-headed practice of constantly releasing press statements about budget shortfalls.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

"Single-handedly" is hyperbole, but he does deserve the vast majority of the credit.

The year HCMM was hired, there was some chatter that the Buffs were interested in hiring Dave Doeren. He made a comment, iirc, that he chose NC State without giving us much consideration because their facilities were already done (not just an unfunded plan).

If CU were looking for a new HC after this season (for whatever reason), I'd expect that this job has become a lot more attractive. Facilities being the main thing, but there are some foundational things with the program if someone looks closely that make it easier to build now such as class balance (especially in the trenches).

So you're telling me that finished facilities may actually matter when trying to sell the program to potential Head Coaches and maybe even, um, recruits?

 

[SINKRATZ]

So you're telling me that finished facilities may actually matter when trying to sell the program to potential Head Coaches and maybe even, um, recruits?

When Doeren made those remarks we had jack s**t. No funding, no ground broken, no real leadership, and shortly thereafter we fired our AD. We had some pretty pictures and that's about it. Big difference from where we are today, big.

 

[slider]

So you're telling me that finished facilities may actually matter when trying to sell the program to potential Head Coaches and maybe even, um, recruits?

FAIL

 

[somebody]

With the facilities and the higher level of donations, I think the emphasis is far more on just winning at this point. And with these facilities, CU will have jumped several notches in prospective coaches' opinions. I think MM is safe for 2015 but has a very hot seat without showing significant progress this year.