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Scandals in US (college) sports

Alfred91 said:
I had cancer during LA’s ascendancy. I would get up early every day in July to watch him race. Having dealt with all the ****, the uncertainty, and frankly, the terror of having stage 4, I was convinced that LA would never do anything as dangerous as dope at the levels he was accused of. I would argue with anyone, and I bought all of the lies. I attributed Lemond’s part in the feud to jealousy, and a lot of the European journalists’ criticism as anger at an American dominating their sport.

So when it finally became inarguably clear that he had indeed doped, I was really upset. I still have no respect for the guy. I mean, good for him for beating cancer, but I feel like the betrayal cancels out any inspiration that he might have given anyone.

Having said all that, grand tour cycling is basically a bull**** sport. They either cannot get a handle on doping or really don’t care. You can’t trust any great performance, because more often than not, the athlete is cheating. I really have lost pretty much any interest in it, which 20 years ago, I would have thought impossible.
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It's been a lot of fun the last 5 years. You are missing out!
 
Alfred91 said:
I had cancer during LA’s ascendancy. I would get up early every day in July to watch him race. Having dealt with all the ****, the uncertainty, and frankly, the terror of having stage 4, I was convinced that LA would never do anything as dangerous as dope at the levels he was accused of. I would argue with anyone, and I bought all of the lies. I attributed Lemond’s part in the feud to jealousy, and a lot of the European journalists’ criticism as anger at an American dominating their sport.

So when it finally became inarguably clear that he had indeed doped, I was really upset. I still have no respect for the guy. I mean, good for him for beating cancer, but I feel like the betrayal cancels out any inspiration that he might have given anyone.

Having said all that, grand tour cycling is basically a bull**** sport. They either cannot get a handle on doping or really don’t care. You can’t trust any great performance, because more often than not, the athlete is cheating. I really have lost pretty much any interest in it, which 20 years ago, I would have thought impossible.
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I think this is another think that pisses me off so much about him - he threw his cancer out there front and center, said “hey, look at me, I’m a cancer survivor and I just used mental will power and dedication to overcome and train really hard, and look what I was able to do.” No you didn’t, asshole.

And if I remember correctly, Sheryl Crow was going through breast cancer while they were together and he was kind of a dick to her and made it seem like her situation was as important as his.
 
BuffWarHog said:
Dudes regularly be winning the Tour with times an hour and half slower than in Lance Armstrong’s doping halcyon days.
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To be fair though they change the route of the tour every year and in recent years have included some slower, more challenging stages.

I have no doubt that the doping done in Lance's heyday made a difference in times, if it didn't they wouldn't have all been doing it. Some good evidence out there though that the doping hasn't gone away, it is only more sophisticated making it harder to catch.

Comparing just on a basis of raw times though is like comparing runners times based on 5ks run in Boulder, Boston, and Indianapolis. Altitude, terrain, surface, and climate are all variables that make the comparison less than valid.

cyclinguptodate.com

“Just because you don’t see that there is doping doesn’t mean it isn’t there” – Expert casts doubt over Tour de France

Tadej Pogacar is back in yellow after his win on Stage 7 of the Tour de France, and once again, questions are swirling about his performance. With each dominant performance, suspicion follows. The spo...
cyclinguptodate.com cyclinguptodate.com

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitne...-records-set-by-dopers-keep-on-getting-broken
 
Darth Snow said:
It's been a lot of fun the last 5 years. You are missing out!
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Sorry to hear about your cancer, but glad you fought through it. Agree with your thoughts.

Until LA's attack on Lemond, he was really admired by the French press, fans and riders. He rode as Bernard Hinault's wing-man for Hinault's last two tour wins, which is the last time a Frenchman has won. Lemond's win in 89' by 8 seconds coming back from an accidental gunshot wound is legend.

Beyond LA's sham itself, LA was a real douche given how he attacked/intimidated other people ruining their lives all for a cover up, when he knew that he was guilty. The LA affair, the saga of finally coming clean (finally publically doing it on Oprah) in addition to subsequent doping offenses destroyed the sport. LA was the poster child for doping, and created the culture that then persisted. They are though Stage 12 in this year's race, and I have not seen a whiff of it on TV. I'm sure the sponsorship $$$ are nowehre close to where they once were. ESPN 30 for 30 did a good film on Lemond. Boulder's Tyler Hamilton is interviewed in the film, and although he was a doper too, the relief he felt when coming clean to the Feds was liberating.
 
GRM said:
Sorry to hear about your cancer, but glad you fought through it. Agree with your thoughts.

Until LA's attack on Lemond, he was really admired by the French press, fans and riders. He rode as Bernard Hinault's wing-man for Hinault's last two tour wins, which is the last time a Frenchman has won. Lemond's win in 89' by 8 seconds coming back from an accidental gunshot wound is legend.

Beyond LA's sham itself, LA was a real douche given how he attacked/intimidated other people ruining their lives all for a cover up, when he knew that he was guilty. The LA affair, the saga of finally coming clean (finally publically doing it on Oprah) in addition to subsequent doping offenses destroyed the sport. LA was the poster child for doping, and created the culture that then persisted. They are though Stage 12 in this year's race, and I have not seen a whiff of it on TV. I'm sure the sponsorship $$$ are nowehre close to where they once were. ESPN 30 for 30 did a good film on Lemond. Boulder's Tyler Hamilton is interviewed in the film, and although he was a doper too, the relief he felt when coming clean to the Feds was liberating.
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I was talking about cycling. No known cancers here. Thanks for your concern!
 
Armstrong was doing the same thing others were doing, maybe marginally better. His domination therefore remains impressive. Livestrong did raise a lot of money for cancer research, which is great. However, he was much more than just a dick or an asshole. He was a brutal bully (to put it mildly) who had no reservations about ruining other people personally and financially to keep up the facade he had created that he was a clean rider in a dirty sport. He carried on his campaign long after it became obvious that he was a liar, and when he finally did tell the truth he did it in a ****ty way and continued to throw others under the bus with an apology fitting a five-year-old.

So, no, he's not hated just because he was a brash American. He was a real piece of ****.

Edit: And I say that as someone who woke up early to watch every mountain stage for his last five tours, sent email summaries of the stages to my friends, wore a Livestrong bracelet for a couple years, and continued to defend him even in his stupid comeback tour when it was pretty obvious he was a fraud.
 
BuffWarHog said:
Dudes regularly be winning the Tour with times an hour and half slower than in Lance Armstrong’s doping halcyon days.
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I'll admit that I know very little about road racing, but I do know that the Tour de France changes its course every year. It would stand to reason that the times would vary as well. Am I missing something here?
 
Not Sure said:
I'll admit that I know very little about road racing, but I do know that the Tour de France changes its course every year. It would stand to reason that the times would vary as well. Am I missing something here?
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BuffWarHog is not quite accurate. The trend has been a continually increasing average speed at the Tour. That average speed each year does depend on the course, as a course with more uphill would be slower than a flatter course. However, the last five years have generally been the fastest, and I think the last three years have all been records. Pogacar set several records for fastest times on established climbs last year, I believe.

That said, the bikes they ride today are light years ahead of the bikes from Armstrong's era. The advances in nutrition are also quite impressive. So, the fact that the doping era times are not all that different is notable.
 
wsp4820 said:
BuffWarHog is not quite accurate. The trend has been a continually increasing average speed at the Tour. That average speed each year does depend on the course, as a course with more uphill would be slower than a flatter course. However, the last five years have generally been the fastest, and I think the last three years have all been records. Pogacar set several records for fastest times on established climbs last year, I believe.

That said, the bikes they ride today are light years ahead of the bikes from Armstrong's era. The advances in nutrition are also quite impressive. So, the fact that the doping era times are not all that different is notable.
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I appreciate the confirmation that, like all sports, nutrition, training, science, and equipment improvements lead to better performance. That's why I hate comparisons of Babe Ruth to a modern hitter - it is impossible.

However, do you think doping is gone from athletics? I don't.
 
Highlander said:
I appreciate the confirmation that, like all sports, nutrition, training, science, and equipment improvements lead to better performance. That's why I hate comparisons of Babe Ruth to a modern hitter - it is impossible.

However, do you think doping is gone from athletics? I don't.
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It never will be in any sport.
 
MtnBuff said:
Lance's crime was being an American who won too much. Everybody and I mean everybody in pro cycling at that time was doping. Lance may have been better at it.

In baseball not everyone was doping but it was commonplace.

In the long run both sports suffered some harm from it but also some benefit. I don't like that athletes put their health at risk but mostly they chose to do so.

I am much more bothered when innocent people outside the sports are damaged by those in the sports
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No rider was clean during the Armstrong years and Lance being an abrasive American didn’t help his case. He absolutely cheated and is a bit of a bully, but some of the hate is down to a patronizing attitude of Europeans to American cyclists. A similar attitude exists with Americans about European NBA players. Cycling hasn’t ever recovered and the stain of doping is always hanging over the sport. With the watts per kilo current riders are putting out it would not surprise me if some form of doping is occurring. Advancements in aerodynamics, nutrition, training, etc can only go so far. Baseball really only recovered from the ghosts of the steroid era with Ohtani becoming arguably the greatest baseball player of all time.
 
Not Sure said:
I'll admit that I know very little about road racing, but I do know that the Tour de France changes its course every year. It would stand to reason that the times would vary as well. Am I missing something here?
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The courses are also a lot shorter and theyve discovered that if you eat sugar you go faster.
 
wsp4820 said:
BuffWarHog is not quite accurate. The trend has been a continually increasing average speed at the Tour. That average speed each year does depend on the course, as a course with more uphill would be slower than a flatter course. However, the last five years have generally been the fastest, and I think the last three years have all been records. Pogacar set several records for fastest times on established climbs last year, I believe.

That said, the bikes they ride today are light years ahead of the bikes from Armstrong's era. The advances in nutrition are also quite impressive. So, the fact that the doping era times are not all that different is notable.
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Good points. Also, interesting notes from today's uphill climbs in the heat: both pog and Jonas were slower today than 3 years ago. And that's despite being in the best shape of their lives and with even better nutrition etc.
 
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This thread is classic offseason AllBuffs.

How many replies actually tried to comment on Jens' question? Bonus points if they actually answered the question correctly with something about US college sports. Partial credit if they at least added an on-topic comment. 😂

More importantly, while reading up on the topic at hand, I learned that there's a Tour de France Femmes. Looks like Kristen Faulkner is someone to cheer for (gold medalist last year).
 
I never liked Lance and was a Lemond fan. But, with a year or two elsewhere, I have lived in Boulder since 1990 and the pomposity of LA people was incredible then. Guy was winning, so OK. But THAT he was the only one not doping and the one winning.....it was a little much for logic to bear.

I never liked Lance and cool he beat ball cancer, so did my uncle who is an accountant in Phoenix. And a super cool guy who's fam played DB for Ok State inna day.

I don't know if LA's doping was a scandal that qualifies in the thread intent but his hypocrisy was *pretty amazing*.

I think the U of N Carolina fake degrees thing was a pretty big scandal for a so called "Public Ivy".

I know no one cares about actual college in sports anymore or actually college in general......but that was swept under the rug pretty nicely. IMO.
 
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Mick Ronson said:
I never liked Lance and was a Lemond fan. But, with a year or two elsewhere, I have lived in Boulder since 1990 and the pomposity of LA people was incredible then. Guy was winning, so OK. But THAT he was the only one not doping and the one winning.....it was a little much for logic to bear.

I never liked Lance and cool he beat ball cancer, so did my uncle who is an accountant in Phoenix. And a super cool guy who's fam played DB for Ok State inna day.

I don't know if LA's doping was a scandal that qualifies in the thread intent but his hypocrisy was *pretty amazing*.

I think the U of N Carolina fake degrees thing was a pretty big scandal for a so called "Public Ivy".
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The UNC deal was ugly, as was Dexter Manly getting a degree from Oklahoma State when he couldn't read it.
 
Darth Snow said:
Good points. Also, interesting notes from today's uphill climbs in the heat: both pog and Jonas were slower today than 3 years ago. And that's despite being in the best shape of their lives and with even better nutrition etc.
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That's why Pogi had to throw out his 6oz of gel, it was weighing him down
 
Buffnik said:
This thread is classic offseason AllBuffs.

How many replies actually tried to comment on Jens' question? Bonus points if they actually answered the question correctly with something about US college sports. Partial credit if they at least added an on-topic comment. 😂

More importantly, while reading up on the topic at hand, I learned that there's a Tour de France Femmes. Looks like Kristen Faulkner is someone to cheer for (gold medalist last year).
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Late offseason. The discussions and excursions get more interesting the closer we get to game day
 
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