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Sefo

darth-horax

Well-Known Member
Remember when his redshirt was burned?

Imagine if he were going into his Junior season right now...would you view him differently?
I think if he had two more years to play (16-17) he'd be viewed in a much more positive light
than he currently is.

This was the original plan, but that redshirt burn really threw him out before he was ready, IMO.

Thoughts?
 
I'm not sure what difference it would make in my view going into this season. If he has a great year then I will be disappointed that we don't get another season. If we see the same Sefo from the last two seasons then it's better to move on.
 
darth-horax said:
Remember when his redshirt was burned?

Imagine if he were going into his Junior season right now...would you view him differently?
I think if he had two more years to play (16-17) he'd be viewed in a much more positive light
than he currently is.

This was the original plan, but that redshirt burn really threw him out before he was ready, IMO.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

We'd be better off if things had gone to plan that year with Sefo redshirting and Gehrke playing mop up duty, sure. Sefo would be a RS-Junior right now and it's not like playing him in 2013 lead to any great success that season. Might have also been better for QB recruiting if there hadn't been a true freshman installed as the starter.
 
I understand that.
I'm just wondering what another year of prep would have meant to his career and his success at CU.

I mean, he's going to more than likely hold almost every passing record in CU history after this season regardless of how he plays.

I just think if had that extra year to prep, and one more to play, his 'legacy' would have/could have been way different.
 
darth-horax said:
I understand that.
I'm just wondering what another year of prep would have meant to his career and his success at CU.

I mean, he's going to more than likely hold almost every passing record in CU history after this season regardless of how he plays.

I just think if had that extra year to prep, and one more to play, his 'legacy' would have/could have been way different.
Click to expand...

His legacy is just fine if he leads the Buffs to a bowl win this year. Better than fine.
 
If Connor Wood wasn't awful that year Sefo could have RS and it would have not only helped himself but the team as well. The fact Montez gets 2 yrs to sit and learn will make a huge difference in how he steps in and takes over compared to how Sefo was thrown out there. I'm sure a lot of people will come out and say look how good Montez is and Sefo sucks and blah blah blah but the fact is that Montez is getting brought along how a college QB should be while Sefo got a raw deal because Wood wasn't capable.
 
I feel for Sefo. He was thrown to the wolves a little early. I really think he handled it great. Sefo is a good teammate and a good leader. I remember him standing up to DLmen to stand up for his teammates. He ran the ball up in the middle and took shots. All of this has made Sefo what he is as a player for CU. The team has his back, because they now he has theirs. I wish we did have him one more season, but it is what it is. When he came to CU, we had nothing at the QB position. BTW - we need him to break the all time passing record here, he deserves it. Of course I would have liked to have more wins, but could you imagine if he didn't come here??
 
He is a tough kid. I hope he breaks all the records in the book. At least we will have a legitimate record holder when he does that.

I really don't think a RS year would have made that much difference. After 30+ starts, we pretty much know what we are getting. He is the best QB on the roster, root him on and let's hope for some W's.
 
Back-the-Buffs said:
If Connor Wood wasn't awful that year Sefo could have RS and it would have not only helped himself but the team as well. The fact Montez gets 2 yrs to sit and learn will make a huge difference in how he steps in and takes over compared to how Sefo was thrown out there. I'm sure a lot of people will come out and say look how good Montez is and Sefo sucks and blah blah blah but the fact is that Montez is getting brought along how a college QB should be while Sefo got a raw deal because Wood wasn't capable.
Click to expand...
It's not Wood's fault that Sefo had to play early - it's the coaches who couldn't recruit a better QB.

I never blame a player for not being better than they are, but I sure will blame coaches for not recruiting over players who can't get it done.
 
Getting game time experience is invaluable no matter how you get it. The only difference is that we would of had him another year, and that is worth something.
 
I remember his first few games, man that kid could throw!
I've been a fan ever since. I know he's made questionable calls, but I think a lot of it is because he's trying to make something happen
when the O line breaks down or something.

Here's to hoping he has a great season and holds every single record in the books after this season.
 
Nobody will ever know because what happened can't be undone but I am a big believer that had Sefo been given the opportunity to develop like he should have we would see a different QB now.

Not only was he thrown in early but he was thrown into a terrible situation with his team constantly behind, limited offensive talent around him, and a joke of an offensive line.

Habits are much easier to form than to change. Sefo quickly developed some bad habits while in survival mode that haunt him now. He doesn't slow down his mind and go through the reads, he tends to look to escape even when there is nothing to escape from. This all came from the conditioning of getting blasted play after play as a true freshman QB.

We constantly (with reason) complain about him locking on to a receiver and not going to the second or third option. We complain about him hesitating and going to a guy who is covered. From what the coaches say if you put him in a film room the can tell you all the reads and identify when he should go to the second or third option, when he should hold the ball a count more to let something develop, when he should just put the ball into the third row and run another play, etc. All the things that an accomplished QB knows how to do.

What we see on the field are the instincts and habits of a guy who never had a chance to let the game slow down enough for him to use his knowledge. We see the same mistakes as we did in year one because they are now habit. I would argue that given a year to practice and watch, maybe given another year as a back-up with a few opportunities to go out there and see some things then come back to film and practice and process them with the coaches, that Sefo may have developed a different set of habits, of football instincts.

Still not saying he would have been a great QB, he has some other limitations as well and still may have developed some bad habits but I will argue that he would have been a different, better QB at this stage of his career.
 
If he gets us to a bowl game, he will have been a big driver in the biggest turn around the program has seen. That is something we fans will remember and praise.

If he doesn't, I'll still think of him very positively. If he does the bowl game, he will be one of our greatest,
 
MtnBuff said:
Nobody will ever know because what happened can't be undone but I am a big believer that had Sefo been given the opportunity to develop like he should have we would see a different QB now.

Not only was he thrown in early but he was thrown into a terrible situation with his team constantly behind, limited offensive talent around him, and a joke of an offensive line.

Habits are much easier to form than to change. Sefo quickly developed some bad habits while in survival mode that haunt him now. He doesn't slow down his mind and go through the reads, he tends to look to escape even when there is nothing to escape from. This all came from the conditioning of getting blasted play after play as a true freshman QB.

We constantly (with reason) complain about him locking on to a receiver and not going to the second or third option. We complain about him hesitating and going to a guy who is covered. From what the coaches say if you put him in a film room the can tell you all the reads and identify when he should go to the second or third option, when he should hold the ball a count more to let something develop, when he should just put the ball into the third row and run another play, etc. All the things that an accomplished QB knows how to do.

What we see on the field are the instincts and habits of a guy who never had a chance to let the game slow down enough for him to use his knowledge. We see the same mistakes as we did in year one because they are now habit. I would argue that given a year to practice and watch, maybe given another year as a back-up with a few opportunities to go out there and see some things then come back to film and practice and process them with the coaches, that Sefo may have developed a different set of habits, of football instincts.

Still not saying he would have been a great QB, he has some other limitations as well and still may have developed some bad habits but I will argue that he would have been a different, better QB at this stage of his career.
Click to expand...
A year to practice or be a backup?? Come on Mtn, we're now 3 years removed from whatever trauma you assume he had to endure that freshman year. He's had plenty of time to correct bad habits, or learn to see the field more effectively. Seeing it on film and seeing it on the field are completely different skills. Maybe he just doesn't have the vision.

What kills me is he often seems to have absolutely no situational awareness. He treats 3rd and 9 in the 4th quarter like it's 2nd and 3 in the 1st quarter.

I really like Sefo and hope he puts together a great senior season, but I think he is what he is at this point - a decent qb who can be effective when he has some talent around him, but not a guy who will carry a team to victory or shine under less than ideal circumstances. He's still our best option at QB for this season (and it's probably not close), but I'm hoping we have finally begun to upgrade the talent at the position for future seasons.
 
SINKRATZ said:
A year to practice or be a backup?? Come on Mtn, we're now 3 years removed from whatever trauma you assume he had to endure that freshman year. He's had plenty of time to correct bad habits, or learn to see the field more effectively. Seeing it on film and seeing it on the field are completely different skills. Maybe he just doesn't have the vision.

What kills me is he often seems to have absolutely no situational awareness. He treats 3rd and 9 in the 4th quarter like it's 2nd and 3 in the 1st quarter.

I really like Sefo and hope he puts together a great senior season, but I think he is what he is at this point - a decent qb who can be effective when he has some talent around him, but not a guy who will carry a team to victory or shine under less than ideal circumstances. He's still our best option at QB for this season (and it's probably not close), but I'm hoping we have finally begun to upgrade the talent at the position for future seasons.
Click to expand...

I guess you didn't read my post. The situational awareness you talk about is something QBs can learn but not by getting hit over and over again. Sefo is dealing with some bad habits he developed while in survival mode.

And yes two years to develop is reasonable when you are dealing with developmental type prospect QBs. The guys who are ready for a coach to "throw them in and see what they can do" end up at USC, or Oklahoma, or some other school that has a top 20 (or even top 10) talent around them. Even the most optimistic fans recognized when we were recruiting Sefo that he wasn't one of those guys, he needed development and a lot of it.

Would he have been much better with developmental time? I can't prove he would be, you can't prove he wouldn't, he never got it. I do know though that bad habits formed under pressure aren't something that are easy to change, especially since he still hasn't been in exactly ideal conditions since.
 
MtnBuff said:
I guess you didn't read my post. The situational awareness you talk about is something QBs can learn but not by getting hit over and over again. Sefo is dealing with some bad habits he developed while in survival mode.

And yes two years to develop is reasonable when you are dealing with developmental type prospect QBs. The guys who are ready for a coach to "throw them in and see what they can do" end up at USC, or Oklahoma, or some other school that has a top 20 (or even top 10) talent around them. Even the most optimistic fans recognized when we were recruiting Sefo that he wasn't one of those guys, he needed development and a lot of it.

Would he have been much better with developmental time? I can't prove he would be, you can't prove he wouldn't, he never got it. I do know though that bad habits formed under pressure aren't something that are easy to change, especially since he still hasn't been in exactly ideal conditions since.
Click to expand...
Given the way that the last two years have played out, I am not sure you can say that Sefo could have developed any better than he did. It's not like playing somebody else the first year would have improved the line play vs Hawaii last year. Sefo would still be running for his life and, by your logic, would have formed the same bad habits.

I also think that the jury is out on whether or not this coaching staff is capable of developing a QB. The few times we have seen QB play from other people, it has not been impressive.
 
Sefo would have still been running for his life in 2014 and 2015 had he had his RS year to develop or not. The only thing that is debatable is whether or not him coming back next year would have been beneficial for him and the team. I don't think it's a stretch to say a 5th year Senior with 3 years of prior starting experience could be better than a 4th year Senior with 3 years of prior starting experience. Then again, that would assume a linear progression in his skills, and some people just simply believe his skills have hit their ceiling.
 
I believe and have seen often enough that developmental QBs benefit from having time to adjust. This isn't a big video game, this is real speed and real impact.

It is easy to say that Sefo hasn't changed much in the past two years, exactly the point. He and the coaches can talk about working through the reads and moving the pocket instead of scrambling and looking guys off which is great until the first 300lb DL has him looking out his ear hole. Then his mind goes right back to the instincts and habits he developed playing when he wasn't ready the first year.

This isn't like changing how you punctuate a sentence while writing an essay, you don't get to control the pace and the setting.

He didn't get to start the last two years with a clean slate, that is why that argument fails in my mind.
 
MtnBuff said:
I guess you didn't read my post. The situational awareness you talk about is something QBs can learn but not by getting hit over and over again. Sefo is dealing with some bad habits he developed while in survival mode.

And yes two years to develop is reasonable when you are dealing with developmental type prospect QBs. The guys who are ready for a coach to "throw them in and see what they can do" end up at USC, or Oklahoma, or some other school that has a top 20 (or even top 10) talent around them. Even the most optimistic fans recognized when we were recruiting Sefo that he wasn't one of those guys, he needed development and a lot of it.

Would he have been much better with developmental time? I can't prove he would be, you can't prove he wouldn't, he never got it. I do know though that bad habits formed under pressure aren't something that are easy to change, especially since he still hasn't been in exactly ideal conditions since.
Click to expand...
You're assuming the only way a qb can develop is to sit on the bench. He's played in 31 games, that's more experience than most college QBs ever get, and enough time to develop some better habits.

Also he took fewer sacks per game his freshman year than he had the last two years. CU gave up the 4th fewest sacks in the Pac12 in his freshman year, so let's not pretend that was some unusually brutal season - QBs get hit all the time, this is football.
 
SINKRATZ said:
You're assuming the only way a qb can develop is to sit on the bench. He's played in 31 games, that's more experience than most college QBs ever get, and enough time to develop some better habits.

Also he took fewer sacks per game his freshman year than he had the last two years. CU gave up the 4th fewest sacks in the Pac12 in his freshman year, so let's not pretend that was some unusually brutal season - QBs get hit all the time, this is football.
Click to expand...

Playing is a great way to develop if it is in the right situation, Sefo wasn't even close. QBs do get hit but Sefo playing chuck and duck, he was playing from way behind in most games, and he didn't have much talent around him to carry the weight. He was seeing things that he wasn't prepared for and his responses became habit. Remember, how many other P5 teams thought Sefo was ready to step in and contribute for them?

Since we can't go back and do a redo to compare we aren't going to settle this but I absolutely believe that playing Sefo as a freshman damaged his development.

I just hope that the next time we see a true freshman QB playing for the Buffs it is because he is a 4* or 5* guy who is already developed to handle it and who has a team around him that can support him.
 
MtnBuff said:
Playing is a great way to develop if it is in the right situation, Sefo wasn't even close. QBs do get hit but Sefo playing chuck and duck, he was playing from way behind in most games, and he didn't have much talent around him to carry the weight. He was seeing things that he wasn't prepared for and his responses became habit. Remember, how many other P5 teams thought Sefo was ready to step in and contribute for them?

Since we can't go back and do a redo to compare we aren't going to settle this but I absolutely believe that playing Sefo as a freshman damaged his development.

I just hope that the next time we see a true freshman QB playing for the Buffs it is because he is a 4* or 5* guy who is already developed to handle it and who has a team around him that can support him.
Click to expand...
As others have pointed out, I just don't see what was so different about 2014 or 2015 that would have prevented the same outcome - the talent around him wasn't substantially better, and he was under just as much pressure.

He is what he is and I don't blame the coaches for playing him that freshman year...I do blame them for not developing him or recruiting over him.
 
SINKRATZ said:
As others have pointed out, I just don't see what was so different about 2014 or 2015 that would have prevented the same outcome - the talent around him wasn't substantially better, and he was under just as much pressure.

He is what he is and I don't blame the coaches for playing him that freshman year...I do blame them for not developing him or recruiting over him.
Click to expand...

I think having a year to practice in controlled situations, to watch film, to work on mechanical issues without having to QB a team every Saturday, having an extra spring practice under his belt would have slowed things down for him and let him develop better instincts on the field. Redshirt seasons are about a lot more than lifting weights and getting bigger. There is a maturity involved. I think there is a good chance that that extra time would have allowed Sefo to approach the next season differently.

As far as playing him that season the coaches didn't have much choice. Wood became pulp under pressure. The coaches hadn't recruited anyone who could handle the job. They had games to play and didn't have a better option.

I don't blame them for playing him under the circumstances but I also don't blame him for the damage done by doing so. Sefo has given this team everything he has.

As stated before I hope that he is the last QB we have to have this discussion about for a long time. Recruit and develop a progression of QBs. Have a legit starter ready along with a couple of qualified back-ups, then this doesn't happen.
 
Last edited:
MtnBuff said:
I think having a year to practice in controlled situations, to watch film, to work on mechanical issues without having to QB a team every Saturday, having an extra spring practice under his belt would have slowed things down for him and let him develop better instincts on the field. Redshirt seasons are about a lot more than lifting weights and getting bigger. There is a maturity involved. I think there is a good chance that that extra time would have allowed Sefo to approach the next season differently.
Click to expand...
Yeah if only he was more mature as a qb things would be different.
 
MtnBuff said:
I believe so, can't prove it but you can't prove the contrary.

Starting him a few weeks after he got on campus sure worked well,
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to prove a hypothetical, you are. I believe Sefo is exactly what we have seen for 3 years...a good, not great QB who really hasn't improved in 3 years in the program.

It's not Sefo's fault either, and I think you and I both blame the coaches for what we're getting from him, I just place more blame in their lack of QB development and recruiting while you fault them more for throwing him out there early. Either way, we have seen the results and they are decidedly average.
 
Sefo will be about as good this year as he was last year or would be next year. I don't begrudge him for that. The kid is tough as nails and is easy to root for. But he is what he is. Burning his redshirt cost us nothing. If we can't replace Sefo's production next year, that is on the current staff's QB recruiting, not the decision to burn the RS. The idea that Sefo is a more legitimate record holder than Cody, or that somehow those records put either of them close to being one of the better QBs in school history is laughable.
 
azbuff said:
Sefo will be about as good this year as he was last year or would be next year. I don't begrudge him for that. The kid is tough as nails and is easy to root for. But he is what he is. Burning his redshirt cost us nothing. If we can't replace Sefo's production next year, that is on the current staff's QB recruiting, not the decision to burn the RS. The idea that Sefo is a more legitimate record holder than Cody, or that somehow those records put either of them close to being one of the better QBs in school history is laughable.
Click to expand...
I would say Sefo's records are more legit because, wherever he ranks on the all time QB pecking order in talent, he played because he earned it.
 
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