I'm sure if this got back to Hawkins, his 1st thought will be "Internet Scum"
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Spoke with someone who knows a lot of the team yesterday...
- Thread starter Darth Snow
- Start date
BuffFan
Member
and they said that most players aren't saying anything out of Loyalty to the TEAM (note: NOT COACH), and that NONE of them (except for Cody and his circle of friends...) are saying anything positive about Hawk... I asked my friend straight up if it sounded like they believed in the coach, and all they could do is shake their head no....
Second hand info, but it does corroborate a lot of stuff we have seen on the field and heard elsewhere.
This person also said some things about the personality of Cody that I shall not repeat here :lol: ...
I am as out spoken as anyone about the things that need to change in the program. Criticism can be constructive and cathartic.
BUT this is the third thread like this, and I think they are all bad for the Buffs. Team troubles that a player tells someone in private, and are not willing to tell people in general, should be kept in confidence. Reporting it is bad for these reasons:
1. Even if the player didn’t say it specifically, they most likely said it in confidence. (I.e. we keep it quiet out of loyalty to the team.)
2. It can cause further problems in the locker room and on the field.
3. If it is traced to the player, they get in trouble.
4. If it gets picked up, it is more bad headlines for the Buffs and moves us further from our goals.
We need to regulate ourselves. I like getting the inside scoop but not when it can hurt the Buffs.
I think we're giving ourselves a little much credit. I dont think any of the 3 posts could be traced to one player. I think everyone has implied that its a player-wide sentiment, certainly a majority. Also, I dont think it can cause alot of issues in the locker room. I dont think any of the players are regularly checking the message boards and saying "alright ****ers, who said we dont like coach hawk and that cody isnt very popular?" A) they dont care--they just want to win. B) I dont think they'd believe us anyway. I just dont see it happening, but, I get what you're saying.
Also, I think this all goes away with some wins. I'd hate my coach at 0-2 as well. He's at fault, but, when you have no confidence in what you're doing anymore, it begets more problems and a further lack of confidence. Beat Wyoming, feel good about yourself for nearly two weeks, and I bet we put up a hell of a show in Morgantown. Truley believe that. Momentum does wonders for Morale.
fatbuff
Member
Why do you think she was over on NB?
Gateway
Well-Known Member
As a matter of fact, it was. We stayed on the bandwagon when people like my brother jumped off. I didn't like Smith or Hackett...I didn't like Smith's treatment of Marinovich..he seemed a bully and I thought Hackett was ineffectual. But I still followed the team. I knew nothing about Carroll when he took over, but have obviously been very happy with him.
I look back and up to a great coach John McKay like all you do with Mac.
Gate----as long as I've seen you posting, not sure I've ever asked---why a fan of both schools?? Thats fine, but I mean, is there ties to both, you go to both, just like both? COMPLETELY serious question. I know/think youre interest in CU started with Moschetti and a personal relationship you have/had with him, no??
I've always kind of liked Georgia....would ever say I'm a fan, but, I like them. No clue why...bulldogs I guess. And they have hot women.
Just curious.
I've always kind of liked Georgia....would ever say I'm a fan, but, I like them. No clue why...bulldogs I guess. And they have hot women.
Just curious.
Gateway
Well-Known Member
Yeah...native SoCaler....brought up to be an USC fan..either you were for SC or for UCLA. That's how it was back then. Didn't go to school there. My Dad couldn't afford games...we were rabid fans, watching on tv. I had an older brother and a younger one...we were all SC fans. Met SoCal Bob and he also was a SC fan...and that's why we still follow the them. No, we don't go to games. Last SC game I went to was when they played CU.
Discovered CU because of MM and we became fans. Still are..year 10...I watch 2 games a week...SC and CU and of course, now I follow the Big 12 in addition to the Pac 10.
2HellNback
Well-Known Member
Is anyone really surprised by this?
I personally played college athletics, and none of us could stand our coach. My freshmen year we had a stretch of games where we were absolutely awful!!!!!
However, our coach continued to vow he was doing "everything right," and refused to take responsibility for anything on the field. I mean refused to even question whether HE was the problem. To the players, and of course there are always those who are classified as "coaches pet," but for the rest of us, refusing to take responsibility for anything on the field why we continued to struggle, was his way of saying, "I'm doing everything right, this team just has no talent."
At the end of the year we finished 1 game above .500, with 9 players voted all-conference. You tell me who the problem is...
I have sources in the locker room, and I know that there are many little groups of conversations. But when asked if the team was just not talented enough in his press conference, Hawk paused and began to stumble on his words, then said they had it, but not the intangibles. Then went on to assure he was doing "everything right." I know that made a group of players on the team absolutely irrate, as they were very offended at how long it took him to answer the question, and then went back to how "great" he was doing.
While Hawk is so big on "confidence building" the team is not stupid, they know they're struggling, so for Hawk to evaluate himself as doing a satisfactory job, he is in turn depleting the player's confidence... While the team struggles, and the coach basically says "it's not my fault, I'm doing it right," then the common denominator would be.... Leaving your players out to dry.
I of course understand that I have a much different take on it, since I lived it... So that's how I read Hawk's comments.
I personally played college athletics, and none of us could stand our coach. My freshmen year we had a stretch of games where we were absolutely awful!!!!!
However, our coach continued to vow he was doing "everything right," and refused to take responsibility for anything on the field. I mean refused to even question whether HE was the problem. To the players, and of course there are always those who are classified as "coaches pet," but for the rest of us, refusing to take responsibility for anything on the field why we continued to struggle, was his way of saying, "I'm doing everything right, this team just has no talent."
At the end of the year we finished 1 game above .500, with 9 players voted all-conference. You tell me who the problem is...
I have sources in the locker room, and I know that there are many little groups of conversations. But when asked if the team was just not talented enough in his press conference, Hawk paused and began to stumble on his words, then said they had it, but not the intangibles. Then went on to assure he was doing "everything right." I know that made a group of players on the team absolutely irrate, as they were very offended at how long it took him to answer the question, and then went back to how "great" he was doing.
While Hawk is so big on "confidence building" the team is not stupid, they know they're struggling, so for Hawk to evaluate himself as doing a satisfactory job, he is in turn depleting the player's confidence... While the team struggles, and the coach basically says "it's not my fault, I'm doing it right," then the common denominator would be.... Leaving your players out to dry.
I of course understand that I have a much different take on it, since I lived it... So that's how I read Hawk's comments.
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BuffNut99
Club Member
That's good insight, but I'm confused - the team you played on were told that it was the players' fault and rebounded... and the 2009 Buffs are being told by Hawk that it's their fault, and you don't think they're going to respond well?
2HellNback
Well-Known Member
No, to start off, I played baseball... 1 game over 500, is not good.
By saying he was doing such a good job, and refusing to take responsibility for many of his choices, the players read THAT as saying we just sucked. Thus, our irritation towards the coach, and lack of belief led us to have zero confidence in winning, ever. Where's the motivation? The coach is doing the best job he can possibly do, so he thinks we suck.
I believe that's how the players feel now.
By saying, "I'm doing a great job, I know we're doing everything right," then to me it is coming off to the players as saying "I'm a great coach, my players are just no good."
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I think he's saying 1 game above .500 isnt much a rebound when you have 9 all conference players.
I, personally, didnt give a **** about the head coach when I played, at any level. Always seems like the guy who handles boosters, parents, media, whatever the case may be at whatever level, but, always thought had to be the most overpaid job in the world, because, I never saw much on the practice fields. Probably over-simplifies the reality of it. Position coach's meant everything to me.
2HellNback
Well-Known Member
Oh and fyi- Hawk is not just giving the "I'm doing it right," crap to just the media... He repeatedly says it to his team in meetings. Ohhh yeah, that'll make'em believe.
Ohhh yeah, that'll make'em believe.
Rraalph 3000
Well-Known Member
Oh and fyi- Hawk is not just giving the "I'm doing it right," crap to just the media... He repeatedly says it to his team in meetings.
Man that's bogus...the more I read about this crap, the more it is very apparent the guy is an egomaniac...he thinks he's all cool and can make up words and be all philosophical, but the bottom line is it's all a facade to cover the fact that he doesn't know **** about football
he definately duped me...as I still have a difficult time getting past him as a person...cuz half of me still likes the guy and really wants him to succeed, but the smarter half knows that this is outside the realm of possibility
Chill out Gate. I was emotional right after the game. I'm still pissed, but more level headed.
BuffNut99
Club Member
Ok, thanks for the clarification.
I read an interesting article about the 2000 NY Giants and Jim Fassel's tactics that year. You will recall the Giants were in a downward spiral in midseason, and Fassel said "This team is going to the playoffs," which was a bit preposterous at the time. The same day he said that to the press, he met with his special teams and said:
"You're all backups on offense and defense, and starters on special teams," he said. "I'm going to explain the facts of life to you. I'm ready to put guys like [veteran defensive starters] Jason Sehorn, Michael Barrow and Jessie Armstead on special teams. If we don't play well and one of these guys has to go in, somebody in this room is going to be gone. And I'm going to keep going down the list of players in this room until we start playing well on special teams again."
The Giants went on to run the table until losing in the SB. Now, Hawk can't exactly cut student athletes, but I would love to see this type of fire. It really demonstrates how much of sports is MENTAL when a team turns it around by sheer will.
Buffs4Ever
Member
On all football teams, there are players who will disagree with the HC's choice of starters. No one will ever agree 100% on who should play what position.
But if the defense is refusing to tackle and the DB's are refusing to cover the receivers because they disagree w/ the choice of starting QB, then Collins has to take care of that right away. If Collins can't take care of it, then it's time to look for another DC. JMO -- B4E
And a lot of these problems are solved by winning the game. A lot of this then goes away.
But if the defense is refusing to tackle and the DB's are refusing to cover the receivers because they disagree w/ the choice of starting QB, then Collins has to take care of that right away. If Collins can't take care of it, then it's time to look for another DC. JMO -- B4E
And a lot of these problems are solved by winning the game. A lot of this then goes away.
So, would it have been so tough to say, "Oh, I get it. No problem."Just saying....
what the **** you mean, GONNA? what the **** was last sunday and friday? This place is melting down like a super villains secret hideout after the big red button has been pushed... TWICEThere is a lot of
We need a ****in win or this place is gonna meltdown.
SkiTownUSA
Administrator
Chilly
Well-Known Member
I just wonder why the people feel the need to make threads regarding conversations. Did the people you talked to know they were on the record? When I have a conversation with someone, my expectation is it stays between me and that person. Would you make the same post if it was conversation you had a conversation with your co-worker about your current employer?
:thumbsup: Oh, and BTW, I heard you were an asshole.
FlatironsBuff
Well-Known Member
Gateway
Well-Known Member
I think that many times, the stuff that is "heard" is meant to get out..otherwise, they would say..."don't let this out"....as far as I'm concerned, if people close to the program...or people that say they have inside info, then people should pay attention.
Does that mean Hawkins (I have never referrred to him in the luv fest "Hawk") mean he should be fired?....No. I have never said it, never called for it, etc.
But fans have questions and they will keep asking them and looking for solutions until things turn around.
That's the way it's alway been.
P.S. People called for Mike M. to be pulled and Tayor Brayton to go in...it never happend because none of us knew what the coach knew.
And no one knows now what is going on now.
I personally don't like Hawkins's b.s....I always like a straight shooter like GB even if his' not popular. But that's just me.
Does that mean Hawkins (I have never referrred to him in the luv fest "Hawk") mean he should be fired?....No. I have never said it, never called for it, etc.
But fans have questions and they will keep asking them and looking for solutions until things turn around.
That's the way it's alway been.
P.S. People called for Mike M. to be pulled and Tayor Brayton to go in...it never happend because none of us knew what the coach knew.
And no one knows now what is going on now.
I personally don't like Hawkins's b.s....I always like a straight shooter like GB even if his' not popular. But that's just me.
2HellNback
Well-Known Member
Good points, but I think the biggest factor is when a coach starts to lose his team. In all reality what the members of allbuffs.com think is irrelevant. But when the players stop smelling what the Hawk is cookin...
I have to agree with you that the stuff meant to be heard gets out.
This is my second year in a row of going through this. I watched DD go through it last year with Washington. The team quit on TW plain and simple. The parallels between the two teams are so similar that I have to tell him to shut up because I can't believe we Buffs fans are going through it. I was so damn smug last year thinking Buffs were good to go and would never reach those lows. I was wrong.
As a fan, I don't mind hearing these stories. Yes they are absolutely "rumors" and maybe we should take them with a grain of salt. However having watched my husband emotionally deal with an 0-12 team and seeing the parallels between the two, I have to think these alleged rumors are important. If the players are truly giving up on coach, something needs to be done plain and simple. As fans and boosters (no matter how low level), we can at least make our complaints known and do something about it when and if needed.
It is definitely needed now.