Dunno. Perhaps DBT remembers.I wonder if Moses was on that 39-40 team?
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Tad has to go
- Thread starter Buffs99
- Start date
He ****ing better since it's him.
I get frustrated with Tad but exactly who is CU going to hire who would do better.
This is not a school that is going to get involved in tens of thousands of dollars of shoe money going to players. We aren't going to be a Zona or Oregon who buy players.
A bunch of pre-1970 success is about as relevant and expecting Harvard to compete for the playoff in football based on their national championships in the 40's and before.
This is not a school that is going to get involved in tens of thousands of dollars of shoe money going to players. We aren't going to be a Zona or Oregon who buy players.
A bunch of pre-1970 success is about as relevant and expecting Harvard to compete for the playoff in football based on their national championships in the 40's and before.
Trogdor
Soy Boy
Who did Oregon buy?
Tad does a great job with the talent he has. He is also provides a presence that is rare to find at that level. Can you imagine Tad at UCLA, and what he could do with eight 5 star players on the roster? Unfortunately, he has struggled getting elite talent to Boulder. He gets the occasional player like Josh Scott, Dinwiddie and Bey, but his rosters are not deep with PAC12 starting talent.
OSU is a good team this year, I don't see that as a bad loss, just a frustrating loss to lose it down the stretch. The PAC 12 will be competitive this year and the Buffs will probably lose 4-5 games in conference. They are still a sweet 16 contender.
OSU is a good team this year, I don't see that as a bad loss, just a frustrating loss to lose it down the stretch. The PAC 12 will be competitive this year and the Buffs will probably lose 4-5 games in conference. They are still a sweet 16 contender.
In another thread, you say this home loss to Ore St is shameful and unacceptable. I also believe you said the loss to Northern Iowa was unacceptable. That makes sense since CU is much more talented than either, and both games were at home.
However, how do square shameful and unacceptable home losses with the desire to keep Tad Boyle? I guess unacceptable losses are ok with you?
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GOBUFFS232
Member
Y’all have me rolling on the floor laughing. Lmao.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY gets more pissed off at the buffalos when they lose games like these(Oregon St), especially at home. I also find it disturbing how often this team plays down to the level of their competition, it’s completely ridiculous. Having said that, Tad Boyle is not to blame for all of these misfortunes. Think about it, these kids are never in the top 100 recruitment classes, these kids could care less about being a Colorado buffalo, and this is deeply rooted within the university, not the coaching.
Tad has done an incredible job building the foundation of the buffalos to have winning seasons, solid conference records, and trips to the tournament. Keep in mind, this is not the norm for buffalo basketball historically either. Every top 100 recruit in the country would rather attend UCLA, ARIZONA, OREGON, USC or even WASHINGTON over Colorado If they HAD to chose a pac-12 team, because historically they are better teams and if the players are really good, it sets them up to play better when they get to the big leagues. Again, keep in mind, this is just in the pac 12 alone. Imagine competing with the powerhouses. Georgetown, Villanova, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan etc etc etc. These established programs attract every “good” Division one athlete in the country. Tad can’t just magically bring these recruits in and create essentially a fantasy basketball team of 5 star recruits. Give the guy a break! He is the best coach Colorado basketball has seen, and he also has his head screwed on straight. After these losses he knows exactly what happened, and most of the time it comes down to the players execution rather than the coaches ignorance. Tad can tell these kids to do what they need to do to win, but it’s up to them to actually do it. They even said after the Oregon state press conference that they had practiced and worked through the 1-3-1 multiple times— Tad had them prepared. You have ****ty ball handlers making bad decisions and you have Tyler Bey making decisions that a colorblind mouse could even correct without even knowing the teams. Grow up and realize these are 18-22 year old kids, not NBA players. It’s college basketball at a high level, anything can happen and it’s the players screwing up most of the time, not the coach.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY gets more pissed off at the buffalos when they lose games like these(Oregon St), especially at home. I also find it disturbing how often this team plays down to the level of their competition, it’s completely ridiculous. Having said that, Tad Boyle is not to blame for all of these misfortunes. Think about it, these kids are never in the top 100 recruitment classes, these kids could care less about being a Colorado buffalo, and this is deeply rooted within the university, not the coaching.
Tad has done an incredible job building the foundation of the buffalos to have winning seasons, solid conference records, and trips to the tournament. Keep in mind, this is not the norm for buffalo basketball historically either. Every top 100 recruit in the country would rather attend UCLA, ARIZONA, OREGON, USC or even WASHINGTON over Colorado If they HAD to chose a pac-12 team, because historically they are better teams and if the players are really good, it sets them up to play better when they get to the big leagues. Again, keep in mind, this is just in the pac 12 alone. Imagine competing with the powerhouses. Georgetown, Villanova, Virginia, Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Michigan etc etc etc. These established programs attract every “good” Division one athlete in the country. Tad can’t just magically bring these recruits in and create essentially a fantasy basketball team of 5 star recruits. Give the guy a break! He is the best coach Colorado basketball has seen, and he also has his head screwed on straight. After these losses he knows exactly what happened, and most of the time it comes down to the players execution rather than the coaches ignorance. Tad can tell these kids to do what they need to do to win, but it’s up to them to actually do it. They even said after the Oregon state press conference that they had practiced and worked through the 1-3-1 multiple times— Tad had them prepared. You have ****ty ball handlers making bad decisions and you have Tyler Bey making decisions that a colorblind mouse could even correct without even knowing the teams. Grow up and realize these are 18-22 year old kids, not NBA players. It’s college basketball at a high level, anything can happen and it’s the players screwing up most of the time, not the coach.
GOBUFFS232
Member
Do you even watch these games? Do you think Tad is out there on the floor turning the ball over when they have a 10 point lead and helping the other team win??? What fantasy world do you live in? Tad Boyle is the only reason you even are talking about Cu basketball right now, due to how ****ty they have been before he got there. Without Tad this team and your dream season wouldn’t even exist. Tad sets these kids up for success, and they continue to turn the ball over, and miss layups. Is that the coaches fault directly? Or what about foul trouble? What about Deshawn Shwart shooting TWO three pointers after TWO offensive rebounds when they are down by 3 with 2 mins to play... Did Tad yell from the sideline “HEY SHWART, MAKE A STUPID DECISION RIGHT NOW”? No, he didn’t. These players shoot themselves in the legs every game they lose cause they play down to the other teams level. Tad can’t fix that. Call em the plaxico buresses of college basketball, bringing a gun into a club with the safety off. These kids need to play smarter and it’s not a reflection on Tad in my opinion
“We just didn’t execute,” Wright said. “We practiced against all their defenses and we knew that (zone) was going to come at some point. We just didn’t execute down the stretch. Coach (Mike) Rohn was telling us the whole half when we had a 10-point lead it would come at some point. We just didn’t execute. Failed to execute down the stretch.” That doesn't sound like Tad's fault to me.
As I’ve maintained, the only thing I care about is making the NCAA Tournament. Doing well in Pac-12 play is therefore vital. Given the weakness of the Pac-12, making the NCAA Tournament should be something Colorado accomplishes at least two out of every three years.
I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to litigate the performance of Tad Boyle after every win or loss. The coach has a standard. He has to meet that standard.
BTW, if sportsbooks have you as a consensus favorite (or even a pick’em) winning that game not an upset. Handicappers in these books who put up actual money know best about situations. Altman in Boulder is very problematic for Oregon. Northern Iowa and Oregon State beating Colorado in Boulder were upsets. Colorado beating Oregon in Boulder as a favorite was a quality win, but not an upset. If Colorado beats Oregon in Eugene the same way they did in Boulder, THAT would be an upset.
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At this standard, you’d have to fire every basketball coach in the country.
I saw some tweets about the stats on the letdown thing. Under Tad, we had been 6-2 before yesterday in home games against unranked teams that followed a win over a ranked team. Last loss like that was 2012-13 season. I think they just stick out a lot since they’re so frustrating.
Anyway, as pissed as I still am, perspective on the UNI & OSU losses is that they were both probably tourney teams that were absolute trap games. I’m mad that we fell in the traps and those losses definitely hurt, but they’re not “bad” losses in the grand scheme of things. Big time missed opportunities, though, since we’d be ranked in the top 10 if we had just not folded in crunch time to give those games away.
LifeofaBuff
Well-Known Member
Oregon State is a tournament team? I think that statement needs to be looked at.
OSU sits at 56 in NET rankings today, which places them on the bubble, or more likely the outside looking in on the tournament. Before they beat CU they were 78. OSU will finish behind Oregon, Arizona (Who looks surprisingly strong) and Washington (whose 2 lottery level players are starting to gel) in conference play for sure. If the PAC12 gets 4 reps in the tournament then it has been a good year for the PAC. The PAC could very well get 5 this year and there is a long shot that they get 6 reps. The teams currently vying for spots 4 and 5 are Stanford, Colorado, OSU, Utah, Arizona State and USC. I don't see OSU coming out of that group. Utah and Stanford look good right now. ASU and Colorado are Jekyll and Hyde type teams and OSU looks ok but is the least talented of the five squads. All of this is to say, OSU isn't a tournament team, not in this conference.
I could see CU losing at OSU not being considered a bad loss, but this game was at home and thus, it was a bad loss.
4thGenBuff
Well-Known Member
I find this image you are posting hilarious because it makes the point of how much better Tad teams have been since those prior. I get frustrated like everyone else but CU Basketball for years was nothing to me but a cheap date. I sat in many half empty stadiums cheering on the team. I could get a GA ticket and show up late and sit in the first 3 rows (Also normally get a free t-shirt or something).
It even leaves off Tad's first year which many people forget about in 2010 where he took a team to the NIT semis. That team absolutely should have gone to the NCAA. That 2010 team was really robbed.
Patton had 12 years and had 2 NCAA appearances 3 NIT appearances
Boyle has had 9 years and has 4 NCAA appearances 3 NIT appearances - basically all but 2 years in Boyle's era have the teams been in on post season play. Boyle also has a conference title which no other coach has until you get back to Sox to find.
Patton is really the only coach that has any kind of comparable success here and Tad blows his record out of the water.
I know people like to take Sox's success and compare it to Boyle but slow your roll. You are missing the fact that Sox had 20 SEASONS! and over that time had 3 NCAA appearances less than Boyle has had in 9! It is hard for me to say that Boyle is better than Sox because I saw none of the Sox teams we are going back before 1980 here Dudes! That said Boyle by his record has clearly been more consistent.
Bottom line is I am now about 40 years old and have been a CU Buffs fan for a bulk of that time and I really can only recall snippets of times where CU had special basketball teams like Boyle consistently has. Special years were the 90s with Billups, the 1 year with Harrison / Pelle. I would say we had some other noteworthy players like Roby but those years ended up in the NIT and Buffs fans were HAPPY to be in the NIT. Wrap your brains around that.
With Boyle we are guaranteed to have a good team, with a descent chance of a post season. As a CU fan that was never a thing we had in the past and I personally am grateful for that. I won't give Boyle the coach for life tag but so long as he maintains this level I am more than content.
The biggest negative of Boyle is he has played with a great CU fan base.
The one knock against Boyle vs other coaches is that CU's Basketball fanbase has become much better under Boyle. Part of that is the success of Boyle's teams, part of that is CUnit, part of that is the lack of success of football. What ever the factor, the Keg being full has made CU into a harder place to play than it was during much of the era's of other coaches. Kansas fans I know were some what shocked at how hard it was for them to takeover the Keg (last year) as in the past they were able to fill it up without issue. The last game here they actually had to spend money on expensive tickets and even then the Keg was not as blue as they had done in previous years. Basically how much stronger the CU basketball fan base had become was noticeably different to them. That fact somewhat shocked the Jayhawk fans and I have no doubt will make them more reluctant to agree to another trip to Boulder.
That said I think you also have to give credit to Boyle for nurturing and growing that fan base and doing it with consistent play. If you want to really see a shocking statistic compare ticket sales of Coors over the past 40 years. That is really the metric that the AD cares about and I have no doubt Tad Boyle owns it.
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When it was THE BIG tournament
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
I agree with and appreciate your entire post, with the one objection noted - it’s really misleading to say Tad/the Buffs won a conference title when it was the conference tournament. Winning 4 (or 3) games straight is a significant accomplishment, but having the best record in an 18-game season is what gives you the conference title.
Yeah, ummmm. No. Winning the tournament gives you the title. They don’t crown the national championship by which team wins the most games in a year. Having the best record over 18 conference games gets you the best seed in the tournament. That’s how it has always worked.
L Buff
Commissar of the Albuffs Collective Left
WarBuff
Club Member
Please see this site and understand that there is a difference between Regular Season Champion and Tournament Champion, and the PAC12 recognizes both
https://pac-12.com/content/mens-basketball-pac-12-championships
https://pac-12.com/content/mens-basketball-pac-12-championships
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
Well, I was interested in this, so I looked it up a little. Apparently the Big 8 tournament didn't start until 1970, which was after Sox won his 3 conference titles. He may never have won a tournament, but it's not fair to say that he never won a title due to that. There was no tournament to win for most of his coaching career. I was actually surprised in my quick research that most conference tournaments have been around for a LONG time. The ACC often talks about regular season and conference titles, even though conference has more prestige, so I thought maybe the ACC tournament was newer, like the Big 10 tournament (inaugural was 1998). ACC, PAC7/8/10 and other conferences have all been around awhile.
I think the discussion between Sox and Tad is a good one to be had, as both are great and an argument can be made for either, at this time. I do think when his career at CU is eventually done, Tad will be the greatest coach we've had, and there won't be a question about it.
I think the discussion between Sox and Tad is a good one to be had, as both are great and an argument can be made for either, at this time. I do think when his career at CU is eventually done, Tad will be the greatest coach we've had, and there won't be a question about it.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
That list is really interesting. So you posted as I was typing mine, and in the Pac 12 basketball tournament wiki page, there's a paragraph about divisional champs and a series between the divisional champs. I figured this would be the Pac 8 tournament, but I guess not based on that list you found.
From the wiki: "
The predecessor conference of the Pac-12, the Pacific Coast Conference, began playing basketball in the 1915–16 season. The PCC was split into North and South Divisions for basketball beginning with the 1922–23 season. The winners of the two divisions would play a best of three series of games to determine the PCC basketball champion. If two division teams tied, they would have a one-game playoff to produce the division representative. Starting with the first edition of the event now known as the NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Tournament in 1939, the winner of the PCC divisional playoff was given the automatic berth in the NCAA tournament. Oregon, the 1939 PCC champion, won the championship game in the 1939 NCAA Basketball Tournament.
The last divisional playoff was in the 1954–55 season. After that, there was no divisional play and all teams played each other in a round robin competition. From the 1955–56 season through the 1985–86 season, the regular season conference champion was awarded the NCAA tournament berth from the PCC, later AAWU, Pac-8 and Pac-10."
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
That cannot possibly be how it has “always” worked as there were no PAC12 conference tournaments before the 1980s. The tournament champion became designated as conference champ in order to try to get more conference teams invited to the NCAAs (i.e. the regular season winner, typically the best team in the conference as an obvious invite, plus potentially the post-season tournament winner, should the regular-season champ be knocked off in the tournament). Equally important was the notion that every team has reason to keep playing hard, and fans to attend games of otherwise hopeless teams, as the post-season tournament gave hope for a miraculous rejuvenation.
Yes it is probably correct that conferences define their champion as the one that wins the conference tournament (otherwise the NCAA wouldn’t be obligated to provide that team a slot in the tournament). I like this system and was thrilled as every Buff fan with the outcome of that tournament. I guess it just doesn’t sound impressive to me on Tad’s record that the Buffs were conference champions as that wasn’t how it worked in the 60s & 70s when I started following college b-ball, and ‘conference champion’ seems it should define the best team in the conference, which is highly debatable for that Buff team, although certainly it was a weak PAC12 conference. I don’t think the regular-season champ (Washington) even got an invite.
aghcsm
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the quick-check clarifications.
GuySmiley
Don't Drink the Kool-Aid
Bad Tad loss. These happen. Was at OSU game last year, and watched this game. Teams that are well disciplined, well coached, and can shoot will just be a difficult task for the Buffs. They are better in the 1/2 court. Our guys are talented but play somewhat raw, despite their experience. For these games, CU has to learn how to bear down and win ugly.
I think CU has better luck against more physical and talented teams, rather than disciplined ones.
I think OSU will finish in the Top 1/2 of the Pac12. They will have to hold their home court. OSU's coach is a good one. Same thing with CU, they will need to hold home court with the most talented teams in the PAC12 and steal a 3-4 on the road. I think that they can do it.
I think CU has better luck against more physical and talented teams, rather than disciplined ones.
I think OSU will finish in the Top 1/2 of the Pac12. They will have to hold their home court. OSU's coach is a good one. Same thing with CU, they will need to hold home court with the most talented teams in the PAC12 and steal a 3-4 on the road. I think that they can do it.
It's Buffaloes (note the e) and Schwartz
If you're going to write a book about the team, at least spell the mascot correctly . . .
Hmm let’s see here. We have wins against:
#9 AP Ranked team
#15 AP Ranked team
Losses against:
#3 AP Ranked team
#37 AP Ranked team (rcving votes)
56 Net ranking team
That’s pretty comparable to wins against:
#8 AP Ranked team
#13 AP Ranked team
Losses against:
#11 AP Ranked team
47 Net ranking team
219 Net ranking team
Hell, I’d actually say ours is better. We are better than Kentucky.
#9 AP Ranked team
#15 AP Ranked team
Losses against:
#3 AP Ranked team
#37 AP Ranked team (rcving votes)
56 Net ranking team
That’s pretty comparable to wins against:
#8 AP Ranked team
#13 AP Ranked team
Losses against:
#11 AP Ranked team
47 Net ranking team
219 Net ranking team
Hell, I’d actually say ours is better. We are better than Kentucky.
I hope and pray that every single player plans to return next year and that Kin nor Bey decide to leave for the NBA because next year after this team gets some Tournament Experience can essentially coach itself and not have mistakes they were not ready for. Good to hear that Coach Rohn had them ready for the zone, but the moment that it was not working and the length was more than they could handle, then a better use of timeouts would have been nice to see. As mentioned, next year's team if intact would be able to manage, but Tad has to still coach them until these guys are on an equal footing with more skilled teams. The once in a decade chance to have an uber mature team is the only way that CU can make a major run, if and until Tad can get high 4* recruits every year.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
I think Bey is gone (even if not 1st round) and Kin will be back. But yeah, agree, I would love for both to be back. I think Bey's draft position is pretty varied, and coming back may not hurt it too much, if at all. Just adding Barthelemy to this year's team (ball handling) would be huge, so if we could have a mature squad with tournament experience, we could make some noise.