Menu
What's new
By:
Filters
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

The anger is building

Duff Man said:
Embree has the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree in coaching.
Click to expand...


I would give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has about 16 hours of post-graduate study. He has been a "passing game coordinator" before, whatever the hell that means.

No way he has a "PhD" in coaching.
 
BuffNut99 said:
The Admin only spent about $124K on 420 (CU Student Govt pitched in $154K), and it was seen as a success (as evidenced by low turnout). Embree's current buyout is $750K. Other variables: PAC 12 money is in the bag regardless of results, and this staff is inexpensive.
Click to expand...

This is the key here. They made the decision to go with an inexperienced, yet also inexpensive, HC and assistants two years ago. I believe that the pressure to hire Embo was too strong to give serious consideration to higher profile candidates, but it also came at a time that CU could not afford to go after those higher profile candidates. Hawk and GB were still on the books, the AD was broke and BIG12 monies gone-PAC12 revenue yet to come.

Now we drown in our sorrows as CU attmepts to pad the coffers with PAC12 money for a few seasons. It won't be until then that the AD (whoever that is) will have the green light to hire a new HC.
 
BuffNut99 said:
Realize that:


  1. the football program has been a $$$ sinkhole in the last decade (AD had to take loan from campus, Big 12 money went down each year, Simpson et. al legal settlements, other sports cut) plus the football team is/was viewed as a PR headache ("scandal," Boulder anti-football crowd, anti-CU local media)
  2. we've had to buyout two consecutive coaches to the tune of $3M+
  3. CU now receives less than 3% of its budget from the state (and that number is falling) but must remain in beggar mode and ask the state, which is broke, for more; campus buildings are falling apart; lots of other new projects needed on campus
  4. state employees have not gotten raises or bonuses for 4+ years because the state is broke (so buyouts have been a slap in the face to them)

So, given all of that, pumping ANY money into the football program, especially to buyout yet another coach, is seen as ludicrous to those (who are the majority) who don't care about how the football team performs.

I'm not saying I agree with the logic, but you can plainly see why we are are where we're at right now. Money and politics.
Click to expand...

All valid points, but I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of state schools are struggling to some degree right now. Yet, we're the only one that has allowed politics to drive us to this level of ineptitude.
 
BuffNut99 said:
Correct -$500K this year (was $750K last year). Point still remains, that's alot of cheese in Benson's head.
Click to expand...

Yet you don't think MB isn't showing him actual revenue losses for this year, and projected losses for next year in Football Revenue that will dwarf those numbers? This is a simple money decision and retaining Embree will COST the University millions.
 
We don't stand a chance to change this program long-term until the State allows for more multi-year (coaching) contracts, the University relaxes admission standards or allows more waivers for athletes. As others have stated - its all politics!!
 
buffedup said:
Yet you don't think MB isn't showing him actual revenue losses for this year, and projected losses for next year in Football Revenue that will dwarf those numbers? This is a simple money decision and retaining Embree will COST the University millions.
Click to expand...
Imagine that MB had that discussion with Benson, then try and guess what Benson's response would be (throwing your sound logic out of the window).
 
buffedup said:
Yet you don't think MB isn't showing him actual revenue losses for this year, and projected losses for next year in Football Revenue that will dwarf those numbers? This is a simple money decision and retaining Embree will COST the University millions.
Click to expand...

This
 
BuffNut99 said:
Imagine that MB had that discussion with Benson, then try and guess what Benson's response would be (throwing your sound logic out of the window).
Click to expand...

You tell me. Benson, while seemingly ambivalent at best towards athletics, is still widely considered a savvy numbers guy and businessman. His job is to make money for the University. Why would he ignore a money loser in just this situation?
 
buffedup said:
Yet you don't think MB isn't showing him actual revenue losses for this year, and projected losses for next year in Football Revenue that will dwarf those numbers? This is a simple money decision and retaining Embree will COST the University millions.
Click to expand...

If 10 of the roughly 35 available suites dont renew that is the 500K right there.
 
buffedup said:
You tell me. Benson, while seemingly ambivalent at best towards athletics, is still widely considered a savvy numbers guy and businessman. His job is to make money for the University. Why would he ignore a money loser in just this situation?
Click to expand...

Here is a numbers view, absent any passion towards football's value as a cultural institution.

Best case scenario is that CU football is a break-even enterprise. Revenues are matched by expense. Any surplus is re-invested in new facilities, more academic support services, additional scholarships, more sports. Football is an arms race in which the networks win and players with concussions lose.

The worst case situation is that the CUAD is a money loser. Expenses are larger than revenue. Events like contract buy-outs, conference reallignments, lawsuits, NCAA violations, and overpriced facilities investments can turn a $45M revenue stream into a $10M drain on the University's cash flow statement.

Why would a business man invest in an enterprise that is, at best, adding no money to your bottom line? At its worst, the program is draining cash that could be used for other purposes, such as Nobel prize caliber research and medical advancements.

If CU still gets out of state students willing to pay out of state tuition, even amidst seven seasons without a bowl game...

If CU gets federal grants that makes up over a quarter of your revenue in a bidding process that excludes football performance...

If instate tuition is subsidized by the state and other funding sources and there is no elasticity in applications due to football...

...Then what basis does Benson have to take on the success of the football program as a pet interest? This is just one athletic program on one of his four campuses. (Benson's pet interest is the Med Center, which now generates more grant money than Boulder's campus)

The main area of leverage is round the role of private donations. When the football team underperforms, how much do donations drop off? And can those donations from football fans be replaced by donations from friends of the university who are not motivated by athletic success? If fundraising doesn't suffer amidst a decade of bad football, then is their really a good rate of return on football?

PS. I do not take this view. I believe the cultural value of the CU boulder athletic department is priceless. My giving is tied to athletic's role in keeping the university visibile. I'm rationalizing and projecting this arguement that might be close to where Benson is based on his behavior.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
dply said:
I'm angry because this experiment has ruined my favorite sport for me. I can't even watch the good games like A&M and Alabama because it pisses me off so much.

I used to park my ass in front of the tv from 10am-midnight on Saturdays just watching CFB.
Click to expand...

This. I suspect we were separated at birth.
 
dio said:
For most of the season I sensed extreme apathy coming from the fanbase...... but within the past 2 weeks I'm starting to sense the anger coming back. I wonder if there will be enough of that emotion to sway any decisions that are (or most likely aren't) made in the next month.
Click to expand...
No.
 
dply said:
I'm angry because this experiment has ruined my favorite sport for me. I can't even watch the good games like A&M and Alabama because it pisses me off so much.

I used to park my ass in front of the tv from 10am-midnight on Saturdays just watching CFB.
Click to expand...


Burrito Palazzo said:
This. I suspect we were separated at birth.
Click to expand...

You think that's bad? I can't even eat burritos any more. I get pissed when I see them on the menu.
 
To say that the CU football problem is an example of what happens when the government manages things is one of the most moronic comments I have seen here. Sure the government is not good at managing a lot of things. But it is also good. Check out the safety record of the FAA. I am sick and tired of the knee jerk notion about government. In fact as is often discussed on this forum, money is a big player. Check out the deterioration of state funding of the University of Colorado in recent decades. And for the other state schools as well. Then compare the percentage of funding here to, say, Virginia or Iowa.
 
kalbuff said:
To say that the CU football problem is an example of what happens when the government manages things is one of the most moronic comments I have seen here. Sure the government is not good at managing a lot of things. But it is also good. Check out the safety record of the FAA. I am sick and tired of the knee jerk notion about government. In fact as is often discussed on this forum, money is a big player. Check out the deterioration of state funding of the University of Colorado in recent decades. And for the other state schools as well. Then compare the percentage of funding here to, say, Virginia or Iowa.
Click to expand...

That's fair. The more accurate and fair way of stating the problem would be that "this is what happens when politics governs decision-making". Departments like the FAA are allowed to do their job without political meddling (except for that air traffic control strike in the 80s). Compare this with the inefficiency of the TSA where political grandstanding governs decisions. CU needs to commit to letting our AD run the department within the guidelines proscribed and stop the political meddling. If the AD doesn't get the job done, replace him or her.
 
kalbuff said:
To say that the CU football problem is an example of what happens when the government manages things is one of the most moronic comments I have seen here. Sure the government is not good at managing a lot of things. But it is also good. Check out the safety record of the FAA. I am sick and tired of the knee jerk notion about government. In fact as is often discussed on this forum, money is a big player. Check out the deterioration of state funding of the University of Colorado in recent decades. And for the other state schools as well. Then compare the percentage of funding here to, say, Virginia or Iowa.
Click to expand...

Go back and read my post again. It says "what can happen" when the government runs things.

I do not claim that every department, from the FAA to the IRS to the USMC is run like CU.

The problems that CU's football program faces are a direct result of the beaurocratic leadership structure and state mandated rules under which it opperates. There is a lack of accountability between Embree and Bohn and DiStephano and Benson. When it comes to the football program, CU is disfunctional.

Private schools like USC, Stanford and Notre Dame and any public institution outside of the reach of TABOR do not have the same constraints as CU.

Don't you wish social security, the FDA and Medicaid ran as smoothly as the FAA? Would you want the FAA to be managed like CU?

Just sayin'
 
Fair responses. My son and I graduated from CU Law. The new school is magnificent but was built largely with private matching money. When you are hurting for money something like athletics is the first to suffer. This happens at all levels of education. I believe money is at the heart of this current debacle.
 
kalbuff said:
Fair responses. My son and I graduated from CU Law. The new school is magnificent but was built largely with private matching money. When you are hurting for money something like athletics is the first to suffer. This happens at all levels of education. I believe money is at the heart of this current debacle.
Click to expand...

Were you a Cal undergrad or is the "Kal" representative of something else?
 
This thread just depresses me. I had a feeling nothing would change even if Bohn is canned, but this just reaffirms my worst fears. *sigh*
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top