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The future of CU football

Buffsrock85 said:
We’ve had the discussion before. I’ve always disagreed about MM as I disagreed with everyone here about Herm Edwards at ASU. Data is fine and I’m sure 3 star takent is good enough for .500. Are we talking about going 7-10 wins a season or are we talking about going 12-0 and being one of the 4 best teams in the country? Everyone here can agree we’re not even remotely close to the top 10 in talent level. There are maybe 10 teams a year (Alabama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia) that can win a championship and it’s the same teams every year anymore. 10 teams might be generous here. The next 10-15 are your elites, (LSU, Auburn, Washington, USC, Oregon) teams that can compete for their league championship and end up in a high level bowl or push into an occasional playoff with the right experience. Teams you wouldn’t be shocked to see there but teams that tend to lack the all around size and depth the top schools have. After that there’s about 20ish teams (where CU currently is) that fluctuate between division championships, .500 and maybe a deep run into playoff contention. Everyone who is recruiting after 45-50 are teams that are the bottom of their leagues in the power 5 followed by most of the MWC and other leagues.

Anyways yeah we can agree we need to recruit better if our goal is to be in the top 10. Ridiculously better if we ever want to sniff another championship. But I don’t agree with you that our current level of recruiting isn’t good enough to be in the top 10-40 teams every single year. Everyone pounds the recruting drum every year and every year it improves a little bit for 3-4 straight years now. The lowest rated players goes up, the highest rated players goes up, the average has gone up. Even the level of recruits has gone up so much since 2014. Kyle ford wouldn’t have even answered the phone in 2014. Most of these recruits wouldn’t have.
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I think we are talking about making a bowl every year, playing in a NY6 bowl in the next two years and playing for the conference championship in the next two years. That’s the level of success/achievement that is documented if I recall the Strat Plan correctly.

That requires a different trajectory in recruiting or coaching or both.
 
hawg1 said:
I think we are talking about making a bowl every year, playing in a NY6 bowl in the next two years and playing for the conference championship in the next two years. That’s the level of success/achievement that is documented if I recall the Strat Plan correctly.

That requires a different trajectory in recruiting or coaching or both.
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Our recruiting trajectory is just fine. The acceleration is a valid complaint.
 
hawg1 said:
I think we are talking about making a bowl every year, playing in a NY6 bowl in the next two years and playing for the conference championship in the next two years. That’s the level of success/achievement that is documented if I recall the Strat Plan correctly.

That requires a different trajectory in recruiting or coaching or both.
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Gotcha, I see where you’re coming from. Well I guess we’ll see. I think we’re assembling the playmakers to accomplish that but failing miserably in our OL/DL recruting. I think MM isn’t going anywhere and RG and CU have no intention of firing him anytime soon. Remember winning cures all and winning brings recruits. The team isn’t getting less talented year over year. But yes I agree they’ll have to jump into the top 30 in recruiting year after year if they want to accomplish that. They’re just a few highly rated recruits from that right now. I’m just happy we don’t suck, I’m having fun right now.
 
Sure hope our next Prez will be committed to athletic success or, at worst, remains neutral and leaves that up to the AD. And keep the whacky regent or two in check.
 
I expect a bowl in 8-9 years out of 10 with the occasional season like 2001 or 2016 at this point. Too much?
 
If we have another really good year the narrative will be 17 was an outlier and I’d expect to see classes like 17 from now on.
 
Bowl each year.

Conference Championship within 2 years.

NY6 Bowl within 2 years.

It is spelled out in the AThletic Department Strategic Plan.
 
My politics are well known. This isn’t about politics, I promise.

However.... Something I find interesting is the correlation (especially the last 10 years) between “red state-ness” and being really good at HS/college football.
 
manhattanbuf said:
My politics are well known. This isn’t about politics, I promise.

However.... Something I find interesting is the correlation (especially the last 10 years) between “red state-ness” and being really good at HS/college football.
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Nebraska and Kansas are Red states.
Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, California, Washington are all historically Blue. Florida votesd Blue in 2012.
Kind of a stretch.
 
CUAviator said:
Nebraska and Kansas are Red states.
Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, California, Washington are all historically Blue. Florida votesd Blue in 2012.
Kind of a stretch.
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Nebraska is down at the moment. They won’t be forever. Kansas just plain sucks, but does have one school who’s been decent more than not.

I’d argue Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylavania are now more purple than blue. Before labor unions were gutted, they were generally true blue states. These days, the alignment with trump is very visible in many parts of all three states.

Florida isn’t traditionally blue one great prez notwithstanding. It’s been a while since FL has had consistently democratic turnout for most elections. CA seems to be an exception. California’s population helps. I think Texas counteracts pretty well.

Then, of course, you have the entire deep south and bible belt. There’s more talent in those states than most states combined.
 
manhattanbuf said:
Nebraska is down at the moment. They won’t be forever. Kansas just plain sucks, but does have one school who’s been decent more than not.

I’d argue Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylavania are now more purple than blue. Before labor unions were gutted, they were generally true blue states. These days, the alignment with trump is very visible in many parts of all three states.

Florida isn’t traditionally blue one great prez notwithstanding. It’s been a while since FL has had consistently democratic turnout for most elections. CA seems to be an exception. California’s population helps. I think Texas counteracts pretty well.

Then, of course, you have the entire deep south and bible belt. There’s more talent in those states than most states combined.
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Valid points. But if you’re going to claim PA, OH, MI to be purple but good; CO is also considered Purple...soooo.
 
CUAviator said:
Valid points. But if you’re going to claim PA, OH, MI to be purple but good; CO is also considered Purple...soooo.
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CO has made vast improvements at the HS level. And, if I chug enough Kool-Aid, I also believe that the University of Colorado will also return to greatness.

It’s just an observation. Perhaps the folks in red states value high school and college football more than blue state folks do so that’s why it’s better?
 
Not Sure said:
I honestly don’t understand where this conversation is going.
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For me, I wonder about the upper limits for Colorado football because football is not religion in the state. There are other places where football has a greater priority from their local communities and states at large.
 
Not Sure said:
I honestly don’t understand where this conversation is going.
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I'm not sure anyone has a strong feeling right now on whether our immediate future is excellence, disappointment or mediocrity.
 
College football success is cyclical. Alabama went through a period of being awful, but they got a generational coach. The U, Texas etc used to be perennial powerhouses and look like they're on the downswing.

Colorado had a severe recruiting scandal and then turned their program over to two absolute dipshits in a row. That set the program back ten years... but they're back.

They won 10 games in 2016 before having a minor hiccup and they look pretty good this season.
 
I think calling it cyclical is an overused expression, however. By and large, about 15-20 programs have vastly more consistent success than anyone else.
 
I doubt we’ll ever see the combination of talent we accumulated like in late 80’s/90’s. We were built like a premium SEC team contending for titles back then, very much like a Bama with Hurts at qb.

We’ll never dominate on the lines like we did back then and that’s what it takes to be great year in and year out. I think Washington and Wisconsin are achievable models of what we could do year in and year out.
 
As someone who grew up in the Barnett era and has no memory of the 90s, I would take that level of success going forward. Mostly solid 7-5/8-4 type seasons with a few down years where they miss a bowl and a few really good years where they're top 10 late in the season.

We can all hope and dream for another run like 89-96 but it would take a pretty special set of circumstances. If the program could return to where it was in the Crowder/Mallory years I think this forum would be thrilled.

Also, as someone with very clear memories of the Hawkins/Embree eras, I live in almost constant fear of one or two bad breaks sending the program back into that kind of pit. This year is so huge in terms of making sure that doesn't happen again.
 
CUAviator said:
Nebraska and Kansas are Red states.
Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, California, Washington are all historically Blue. Florida votesd Blue in 2012.
Kind of a stretch.
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So are Alabama and South Carolina-the states in which the two programs who have dominated this sport for the last few years reside. I think this argument is a stretch anyway you swing it. Here's the better way to look at this-the ACC and SEC are the only two conferences in the power 5 who play 8 conference games. They've also got all but one of the championships dating back to the start of the last major round of realignment (the 2011 season) between the two of them. That isn't a coincidence.
 
bpc5180 said:
I doubt we’ll ever see the combination of talent we accumulated like in late 80’s/90’s. We were built like a premium SEC team contending for titles back then, very much like a Bama with Hurts at qb.

We’ll never dominate on the lines like we did back then and that’s what it takes to be great year in and year out. I think Washington and Wisconsin are achievable models of what we could do year in and year out.
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We play in a conference where speed is just as big as being able to dominate up front. That's why Washington is the "big dog" (pun intended) in the league right now.

StormTrooper said:
As someone who grew up in the Barnett era and has no memory of the 90s, I would take that level of success going forward. Mostly solid 7-5/8-4 type seasons with a few down years where they miss a bowl and a few really good years where they're top 10 late in the season.

We can all hope and dream for another run like 89-96 but it would take a pretty special set of circumstances. If the program could return to where it was in the Crowder/Mallory years I think this forum would be thrilled.

Also, as someone with very clear memories of the Hawkins/Embree eras, I live in almost constant fear of one or two bad breaks sending the program back into that kind of pit. This year is so huge in terms of making sure that doesn't happen again.
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Here's the argument for dumping MM if this year is 5-7 or worse.
 
ahoelsken said:
So are Alabama and South Carolina-the states in which the two programs who have dominated this sport for the last few years reside. I think this argument is a stretch anyway you swing it. Here's the better way to look at this-the ACC and SEC are the only two conferences in the power 5 who play 8 conference games. They've also got all but one of the championships dating back to the start of the last major round of realignment (the 2011 season) between the two of them. That isn't a coincidence.
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Better argument, which I agree.
 
MacIntyre took us to the conference championship game where we were one win away from a conference championship. I'd say a Pac-12 championship and a Rose Bowl berth is MacIntyre's ceiling at the moment.
 
Jalapeno said:
MacIntyre took us to the conference championship game where we were one win away from a conference championship. I'd say a Pac-12 championship and a Rose Bowl berth is MacIntyre's ceiling at the moment.
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Oh, okay. Based on what exactly? Please someone give me some conclusive evidence that shows that MM’s “ceiling” is a conference championship. You have no idea, you have no tangible way to prove this point. What if he had Alabama’s players? Georgia’s? Washington’s? Oklahoma? What happens now? He still can’t win? Or are we basing this “ceiling” off CU’s players and our level of recruiting? Because let’s be honest here people, you could bring in Nick Saban and the 2018 Buffaloes aren’t going to be leaps and bounds better under him.
 
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