UH seems to be the latest crybaby school from Texas begging the legislature for help

[onealcd]

I would like tcu as the partner with Texas. They give you access to the Dallas area and their fans are cool from what I have seen. Good school too.

 

[Buffnik]

I wonder how SMU's religious affiliation would play, plus their corrupt past. Is North Texas a good enough school?

North Texas wouldn't be on the table. Denton is small and the program/university don't meet Pac-12 standards. SMU doesn't meet standards as a research institute, I think.

 

[Mr. Babar]

The P5 is in an arms race right now with the playoff generating so much revenue. I think the Pac12 needs to look at getting into the CST time zone and into Texas. The Big Ten is at 14, the SEC is at 14, and the ACC is at 14. If the Big 12 adds four more teams to get to 14 it does put the Pac12 at a relative disadvantage. Especially if the do end up adding a Houston to the mix. Last thing the Pac12 needs to paint themselves into a corner and only have CSU, UNLV, etc as options that are already in the footprint.

 

[Buff_since76]

I wonder how SMU's religious affiliation would play, plus their corrupt past. Is North Texas a good enough school?

as an SMU grad, the religious affiliation is in name only.

 

[Deleted member 807]

as an SMU grad, the religious affiliation is in name only.

True. It's primarily a law school and a business school.

Academically it could hold its own against other P12 schools.

Just like Utah, ASU, Wazzou and Oregon State, SMU is not a member of AAU Research Universities.

 

[TDbuff]

as an SMU grad, the religious affiliation is in name only.

Figured so, just taking into account what the rest of the religion sensitive Pac 12 might say about it. Although the beef with BYU that gets brought up all the time isn't their religion so much as they're difficult to deal with because of it.

 

[sackman]

We need to stop talking about P12 expansion. It's a bad idea.

 

[sackman]

The P5 is in an arms race right now with the playoff generating so much revenue. I think the Pac12 needs to look at getting into the CST time zone and into Texas. The Big Ten is at 14, the SEC is at 14, and the ACC is at 14. If the Big 12 adds four more teams to get to 14 it does put the Pac12 at a relative disadvantage. Especially if the do end up adding a Houston to the mix. Last thing the Pac12 needs to paint themselves into a corner and only have CSU, UNLV, etc as options that are already in the footprint.

There is no reason for the P12 to expand. Other conferences do not dictate what we do.

 

[Duff Man]

There is no reason for the P12 to expand. Other conferences do not dictate what we do.

Money. Money. Money.

 

[sackman]

Money. Money. Money.

We don't get more money just because we have more teams. The only schools that would bring more money are schools we wouldn't want to have in the conference to begin with. We are better off solidifying our brand and making it more valuable. Schools like Houston, SMU, CSU, etc don't solidify the brand, they dilute it. Same for UT, frankly.

 

[Duff Man]

I know you and others believe it, but Texas would be too good to pass up. Dilute the brand? Come on.

 

[sackman]

I know you and others believe it, but Texas would be too good to pass up. Dilute the brand? Come on.

Maybe you're right. I mean, nothing screams "West Coast College Football" like Texas.

 

[Buffnik]

Maybe you're right. I mean, nothing screams "West Coast College Football" like Texas.

Is there more equity in that brand than in owning the western US college football landscape from the Southwest to the Pacific?

Nope.

The brand is bigger and stronger with Texas.

That is, if it's about money and being the best on the field. If it's about something else, then keep it as the Mountain and Pacific time zones and see if SDSU, BSU, UNLV and UNM ever warrant consideration for conference expansion.

 

[sackman]

Is there more equity in that brand than in owning the western US college football landscape from the Southwest to the Pacific?

Nope.

The brand is bigger and stronger with Texas.

That is, if it's about money and being the best on the field. If it's about something else, then keep it as the Mountain and Pacific time zones and see if SDSU, BSU, UNLV and UNM ever warrant consideration for conference expansion.

We will have to agree to disagree, because I'm pretty certain we will never actually find out for sure one way or the other.

 

[Duff Man]

Maybe you're right. I mean, nothing screams "West Coast College Football" like Texas.

You can argue Texas is a poor conference partner and other things, but getting a foothold into the central time zone with one of the brand names in college football would be a boon money-wise and reputation wise for the conference.

 

[CUFan]

I'd like to have a few teams farther east than us. I feel like we're on an island of one in the PAC. Maybe Houston, Oklahoma and State plus Kansas? An equal member Texas would be fine as well. That would mute the BS from them. TT and Baylor would be nothing but dilutive. Would rather have Houston or TCU first.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Buffnik]

Some of it is that it's a timing thing. Timing isn't right. Politically, it's difficult.

If it ever becomes right, the best for a Pac-16 would be UT, OU, KU & a +1. I think UH is the best of the +1 options due to the size of the city of Houston and the whole "Conference of Champions" brand.

 

[lvbuff]

I don't know much except that I remember when we were having Pac-12 expansion discussions I looked them up after hearing that Larry Scott visited. What I remember is that they're Tier 1 for research, which is pretty much going to be a Pac-12 requirement for any new members. It was also a recent development that put them on the track for AAU membership.

UH won't even apply much less attain AAU membership. It just won't happen.

 

[lvbuff]

North Texas wouldn't be on the table. Denton is small and the program/university don't meet Pac-12 standards. SMU doesn't meet standards as a research institute, I think.

SMU for a small private is highly regarded as a research institution. The law school and business school are nationally ranked.

 

[Deleted member 807]

UH won't even apply much less attain AAU membership. It just won't happen.

This is why Rice is the better Houston option. Rice is an AAU research institution.

 

[sackman]

:lol:

Rice. Yeah We're going to add Rice because of all the TV sets they bring.

 

[sackman]

Why do we put ourselves through this over and over again? The Pac 12 doesn't need to expand. Doesn't want to expand. Isn't going to expand. OU and UT are the only schools that would deliver TV sets and the P12 wants absolutely nothing to do with them. Frankly, UT and OU don't want anything to do with the P12, either. Because as much as we don't think they fit into our culture, they feel just as strongly that they don't fit into ours. So even if it was something we wanted, it's not going to happen. Everybody else from SMU to Houston to SDSU just doesn't bring anything to the table. We don't need to be in the Central Time Zone. There are four other major conferences in the Central Time Zone that we'd be competing against. We control the westernmost two time zones (Alaska and Hawaii notwithstanding).

The problem with having these types of conversations is that it leads to all kinds of ridiculous speculation. We don't need more teams. We need to improve the strength of our current teams. The P12 is already a national powerhouse. No need to dilute the brand.

Let it go, people. It's not even an interesting conversation anymore.

 

[Buffnik]

:lol:

Rice. Yeah We're going to add Rice because of all the TV sets they bring.

Rice is nowhere near any legitimate discussion of P5 conference expansion. I'm surprised that they've even chosen to maintain FBS status for athletics. Rice has D2 or D3 enrollment numbers.

 

[Deleted member 807]

:lol:

Rice. Yeah We're going to add Rice because of all the TV sets they bring.

Rice is nowhere near any legitimate discussion of P5 conference expansion. I'm surprised that they've even chosen to maintain FBS status for athletics. Rice has D2 or D3 enrollment numbers.

Rice is the perfect foil for all this talk about adding a Texas school to the Pac 12.

They have legit AAU / Academic credentials.
Their enrollment isn't that different than Stanford, so Nik's argument isn't consistent.
They don't carry the religious baggage of a BYU (or TCU or SMU or Baylor)
Rice provides an opportunity for P12 schools to go to Houston for recruiting purposes.
They have a huge on campus stadium, the old BlueBonnet Bowl.
They provide inroads into to the central time zone.
They don't run a conference, like UT would be prone to do. Rice's lack of entitlement is charming.
They are located in a town that UT thinks they own, but in reality, every UofH, A&M, and Rice grad hates Longhorn arrogance. Houston is ripe for the picking
It would piss off UT to no end if P12 took Rice.
It's not realistic, therefore a perfectly benign response to the whole P12 expansion talk.

This is a much better solution to the "Shut your whore mouth" approach to looking at Texas for expansion.

 

[sackman]

Rice's enrollment is about half that of Stanford. Roughly 6500 to 12,000.

If all you're doing is throwing out a school to be a counterweight to UT, fine. It doesn't matter, because the P12 isn't taking any of them.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Rice's enrollment is about half that of Stanford. Roughly 6500 to 12,000.

If all you're doing is throwing out a school to be a counterweight to UT, fine. It doesn't matter, because the P12 isn't taking any of them.

Stanford enrollment:

Undergraduates	6,980[SUP][7][/SUP]
Postgraduates	8,897[SUP][7][/SUP]

Rice is within 3,000 undergrads of Stanford. Practically a rounding error.:thumbsup:

Undergraduates	3,920[SUP][4][/SUP] (fall 2013)
Postgraduates	2,567[SUP][4][/SUP] (fall 2012)

The battle of the geek marching bands would be epic!

 

[MtnBuff]

Somehow the name Rice and Stanford don't come up in many conversations, excepting those started by those affiliated with Rice.

Athletically rice isn't P5. Academically Rice may be very good but they don't add to a conference image because people don't think about them in the same terms.

Never heard a kid say "I want to go to Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, or Rice."

 

[Deleted member 807]

Somehow the name Rice and Stanford don't come up in many conversations, excepting those started by those affiliated with Rice.

Athletically rice isn't P5. Academically Rice may be very good but they don't add to a conference image because people don't think about them in the same terms.

Never heard a kid say "I want to go to Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, or Rice."

Your east coast/west coast bias is showing through.

It would send a pretty strong signal to the nation, however, if the P12 did invite Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Rice to join the conference, though.

 

[sackman]

Rice is an elite academic institution. It's right up there with Stanford, Princeton, etc. Truly elite.

 

[Deleted member 807]

Rice is an elite academic institution. It's right up there with Stanford, Princeton, etc. Truly elite.

It's the best university in all of Houston.

I'm not making this argument to promote Rice.
I'm proposing a simple solution that puts CU in Houston on a periodic basis. This is a GREAT recruiting environment. Getting a conference win and some Houston recruits without the Longhorn BS is a good thing.

People in Houston would watch more Pac12 games if they had a reason to do so. There are UCLA, USC, and various Pac12 transplants in Houston. Houston is home to Spiff and various CU educated aerospace types. This isn't about Rice. This is about increasing CU's exposure in a major western TV market.