We need CSU to step up.

[Buffnik]

If CSU were invited to the Big 12, Texas would probably give them the same conference distribution as they currently get in the MWC.

But seriously folks, last in revenue and donations in the MWC. Facilities are a joke. Attendance is a joke. CSU really needs to step down a division before it needs a jump to a BCS conference.

If we didn't do the RMS with them every year, could they survive financially as a D1-A program?

I suppose their only option would be to accept a slate of non-conference road games at powerhouses in order to get the paydays.

 

[sackman]

If we didn't do the RMS with them every year, could they survive financially as a D1-A program?

I suppose their only option would be to accept a slate of non-conference road games at powerhouses in order to get the paydays.

I think the RMS is a crutch they would do well to discard, actually. They've depended on that revenue for too long. If they had to actually work at selling tickets, building a solid donor base, alumni relations, marketing, PR and fundraising, they'd be in much better shape in the long run.

 

[CUFan]

If we didn't do the RMS with them every year, could they survive financially as a D1-A program?

I suppose their only option would be to accept a slate of non-conference road games at powerhouses in order to get the paydays.

I am not a CSU hater and I would love to see them succeed, but they have a lot to do to get their act together. They need some leadership there to energize the alumni, get some donations, build some facilities, etc. While they need success on the field, they need the other things more.

 

[MtnBuff]

I think the RMS is a crutch they would do well to discard, actually. They've depended on that revenue for too long. If they had to actually work at selling tickets, building a solid donor base, alumni relations, marketing, PR and fundraising, they'd be in much better shape in the long run.

Problem with that theory is that they have tried, it hasn't worked. They spent time ranked during the Sonny era, averaged 28k, have done marketing campaigns, have sought major donors and got a big one from Stryker. End result a team that won 2 games last year and the year before and has a sinking attendance, now under 24k per home game.

No question they have a core of fans who are dedicated and rabid, unfortunately that core is way to small to justify a BCS level program in this era and the rest of their Alumni and the people in the surrounding area simply don't care.

I would like to see CSU be successful, I did grad school there and know and work with a lot of CSU grads. The trouble is that as the schools in the AQ conferences continue to generate significantly higher revenues based on their value in selling tickets and more importantly TV ratings schools like CSU could make major improvements and still fall further behind. The current PAC TV deal guarantees each school over $20 million a year and with the PAC12 Network and other add-ons it could go past $30million. CSU got less than $2 million last year from the MWC, double it and it still is pocket change. Increase their home attendance by 20% and you still are under 27k, again not even competitive.

I know that they don't want to hear it but I think the time is coming soon when CSU has to bite the bullet and look at a level of football where they can be competitive with the resources they have, FCS.

 

[Buffalo Brad]

The opportunity is there and now it appears that CSU will have more time to prepare. If they want to stay relevant on any level, they would be best served by putting a committee together to lay out the steps to put together a bid. Once the Big 12-2 makes the next change, it will probably be the Ewes last chance. If they do not get proactive here, they will be relegated to dropping a level and trying to field FCS teams moving forward. It really is their last best chance.

 

[GregInArlington]

Can we really call the Big 12-2-X a power conference any more?

What is the only conference with 3 teams ranked in the pre-season top 10?

The answer may suprise you.

 

[Duff Man]

I still find it pretty sad that CSU has an indoor facility infinitely better than ours.

 

[Buffnik]

I still find it pretty sad that CSU has an indoor facility infinitely better than ours.

Yeah, but they bought it on layaway.

 

[CsquaredCC]

It's looking less likely that we'll need CSU - or anybody else for that matter - to step up and make a case to move to the Big 12. Hopefully, this serves as a wake-up call for the goats. Get your sh*t together up there. The clock is running. If you have even the slightest desire to be relevant, get your ass in gear.

You all know my arguments at this point. CSU is in a perfect spot. An hour from a major metro area, large alumni base, desireable location. CSU has invested nearly $100 Million in campus upgrades with more to come. I think CSU realizes the clock is running. The most interesting comment from the attached article is that CSU is planning to increase enrollment significantly over the next few years. Rumors are CSU is targeting somewhere in the 35,000 range for on-campus enrollment. There are also preliminary discussions of a stadium expansion somewhere in the 45,000 capcacity range. However, with limited support from alumni and no large television payouts its difficult to make the needed investment. If the A&M is out of the Big12, CSU will be in the conversation as a potential replacement, but only if the league expands to 12 or more. I think the people making the decisions realize this could be CSU's one and only opportunity. Things will have to break the right way in terms of realignment, but I think there is an outside shot CSU becomes a part of the Big12 and would probably see and increase in revenue in the range of 5 times what the University is seeing now on an annual basis.

http://coloradoan.com/article/20110815/NEWS01/108150319/1002/CUSTOMERSERVICE02

 

[CsquaredCC]

Yeah, but they bought it on layaway.

You guys trash CSU when it doesn't invest in facilities and then trash it when it makes a significant investment. The practice facility was a nice start and desperately needed. However, when your television contract pays you somewhere in the range of $1.5 Million a year, what can you expect?

 

[NashBuff]

Does anyone think CSU's basketball arena is adequate? I know the football stadium can be easily expanded to even bigger than Folsom Field but the Big 12 takes their basketball seriously too so I think CSU needs a new arena in order to have a shot at the Big 12 invite.

 

[CsquaredCC]

Does anyone think CSU's basketball arena is adequate? I know the football stadium can be easily expanded to even bigger than Folsom Field but the Big 12 takes their basketball seriously too so I think CSU needs a new arena in order to have a shot at the Big 12 invite.

If CSU were to get a BCS conference invite, I think Moby Arena's time would be limited. However, you wouldn't see significant change on that front for nearly a decade if I had to guess.

 

[leftybuff]

You guys trash CSU when it doesn't invest in facilities and then trash it when it makes a significant investment. The practice facility was a nice start and desperately needed. However, when your television contract pays you somewhere in the range of $1.5 Million a year, what can you expect?

Shrubs...

 

[MtnBuff]

You all know my arguments at this point. CSU is in a perfect spot. An hour from a major metro area, large alumni base, desireable location. CSU has invested nearly $100 Million in campus upgrades with more to come. I think CSU realizes the clock is running. The most interesting comment from the attached article is that CSU is planning to increase enrollment significantly over the next few years. Rumors are CSU is targeting somewhere in the 35,000 range for on-campus enrollment. There are also preliminary discussions of a stadium expansion somewhere in the 45,000 capcacity range. However, with limited support from alumni and no large television payouts its difficult to make the needed investment. If the A&M is out of the Big12, CSU will be in the conversation as a potential replacement, but only if the league expands to 12 or more. I think the people making the decisions realize this could be CSU's one and only opportunity. Things will have to break the right way in terms of realignment, but I think there is an outside shot CSU becomes a part of the Big12 and would probably see and increase in revenue in the range of 5 times what the University is seeing now on an annual basis.

http://coloradoan.com/article/20110815/NEWS01/108150319/1002/CUSTOMERSERVICE02

Just a question. How do you justify a stadium expansion to 45k when you don't even come close to filling the 35k you have. Even if you move enrollment up to 35,000, which I doubt will happen that adds what, based on current participation another 5,000 students per game at most. CSU couldn't sell out Hughes for a game against top 10 Cal, the average has been dropping.

I don't see any way that the Big XII or any other AQ conference even gives CSU a look. They would be a net drain on the finances of any conference they join which is why they are in a conference now that pays 1.5 million a year not 10 or more million.

 

[dio]

The only way CSU gets a look is if someone convinces the B12 or another BCS conference that the Rammies can bring the Denver TV market

 

[Darth Snow]

I've been waiting for your appearance here CsquaredCC. Why expand hughes? Tear that mother****er down! Replant the shrubs!

 

[sackman]

Just a question. How do you justify a stadium expansion to 45k when you don't even come close to filling the 35k you have. Even if you move enrollment up to 35,000, which I doubt will happen that adds what, based on current participation another 5,000 students per game at most. CSU couldn't sell out Hughes for a game against top 10 Cal, the average has been dropping.

I don't see any way that the Big XII or any other AQ conference even gives CSU a look. They would be a net drain on the finances of any conference they join which is why they are in a conference now that pays 1.5 million a year not 10 or more million.

I think you're being a little short sighted. As an example, I give you Utah. 20 years ago, Utah was in the exact same spot CSU is in today. They made a serious commitment to athletics, and got a little lucky with the Olympics building them some new facilities. Now they're in the Pac 12. As they stand today, CSU doesn't offer much to a BCS conference other than some alumni and the promise of a lot of TVs in the Denver market. If (and I agree it's a huge IF) they can make the same kind of commitment that Utah made 20 years ago, there is the potential for them to move up in the world. The problem is that I just don't get the impression that their leadership is willing to do what it takes.

 

[sackman]

I've been waiting for your appearance here CsquaredCC. Why expand hughes? Tear that mother****er down! Replant the shrubs!

I know folks at CSU don't want to hear this, but it's the right thing to do. Build a new stadium on campus. The location and amenities of Hughes will continue to be a drain on that athletic department for as long as they continue to play games there. Nobody is interested in seeing a game there.

 

[Junction]

I've been waiting for your appearance here CsquaredCC. Why expand hughes? Tear that mother****er down! Replant the shrubs!

I respect the original intent here, but seriously, it probably is a big part of solving their fan support issue.

If they get 35k students on campus, they would be able to sell out a 45k stadium, or at least come close to it, I think. But only if that stadium is on campus. A big part of their fan support problem is that students really don't want to trek out into the country to go to games, either because they don't have their own transportation and don't want to pack onto buses to go to a game, or because they're just lazy like a lot of college students. Dumping more money into Hughes is never going to solve that. A stadium on campus or adjacent would cost a hell of a lot more, but would have a lot of benefits.

Sadly, the one thing it can't solve is that they are still CSEwe...

 

[GregInArlington]

Just a question. How do you justify a stadium expansion to 45k when you don't even come close to filling the 35k you have. Even if you move enrollment up to 35,000, which I doubt will happen that adds what, based on current participation another 5,000 students per game at most. CSU couldn't sell out Hughes for a game against top 10 Cal, the average has been dropping.

I don't see any way that the Big XII or any other AQ conference even gives CSU a look. They would be a net drain on the finances of any conference they join which is why they are in a conference now that pays 1.5 million a year not 10 or more million.

If you build it, they will come.

 

[CsquaredCC]

Just a question. How do you justify a stadium expansion to 45k when you don't even come close to filling the 35k you have. Even if you move enrollment up to 35,000, which I doubt will happen that adds what, based on current participation another 5,000 students per game at most. CSU couldn't sell out Hughes for a game against top 10 Cal, the average has been dropping.

I don't see any way that the Big XII or any other AQ conference even gives CSU a look. They would be a net drain on the finances of any conference they join which is why they are in a conference now that pays 1.5 million a year not 10 or more million.

I think you can also make a decent argument that Big 12 teams will increase attendance somewhere in the 2-5 thousand range for a particular game just given how well those programs travel. I know you constantly harp on the 2007 Cal game, but you have to keep that game in context. CSU was coming off a season in which it lost 7 straight games to end the season the year before and was on an 8 game losing streak following a tough overtime loss to CU in Boulder. In contrast CSU had 33,500 for a top 25 Minnesota team in 2004 and in a stadium that seated 30,000 at the time. Last season, even with a bad season, CSU put 31,000 in the seats for UNLV and I think UNLV traveled with literally 100-200 people.

If you look at an increased student population of 5,000 per game, a nominal increase in attendance of the alumni just given better competition in the range of 2-5K per game, and Big 12 teams that travel with 2-5k. I think a 45,000 expansion would be appropriate and CSU could realistically average somewhere in the 40,000 range.

 

[CsquaredCC]

I've been waiting for your appearance here CsquaredCC. Why expand hughes? Tear that mother****er down! Replant the shrubs!

I would love nothing more than a new $200,000 Million 45,000 seat stadium located down by the "Brewers Row" area of Old Town, where people could walk down to the games after tailgating and drinking downtown. Do that, and attendance problems would start to become a non-factor. Not going to happen though.

 

[sackman]

Move the Vet school out to Hughes. Put the Stadium just North of where the Vet School is now. Build a 50,000 seat stadium. That's what big-time schools do. If you wanna be big time, that's your option. Stop playing around with Hughes. It's a small time facility that screams "small time" to anybody who sees it.

 

[sackman]

I would love nothing more than a new $200,000 Million 45,000 seat stadium located down by the "Brewers Row" area of Old Town, where people could walk down to the games after tailgating and drinking downtown. Do that, and attendance problems would start to become a non-factor. Not going to happen though.

Old town =/= campus. PUT THE DAMN STADIUM ON CAMPUS.

 

[CsquaredCC]

Old town =/= campus. PUT THE DAMN STADIUM ON CAMPUS.

Sackman you won't get any arguments from me! I would love nothing more than an on-campus venue. However, that will never happen unless the State of Colorado offers some assistance and steps up with a $100,000 + million dollar bonding initiative. Similar to what the Univesity of Washington is doing with its facilities. However, I just don't see that happening.

 

[Darth Snow]

Old town =/= campus. PUT THE DAMN STADIUM ON CAMPUS.

Agreed. This is college ball.

 

[sackman]

Sackman you won't get any arguments from me! I would love nothing more than an on-campus venue. However, that will never happen unless the State of Colorado offers some assistance and steps up with a $100,000 + million dollar bonding initiative. Similar to what the Univesity of Washington is doing with its facilities. However, I just don't see that happening.

This is what capital campaigns are for. You're thinking small, dude. I actually see a ton of potential at CSU, but the place is overrun by small minded people who think that if they can just persuade a BCS conference to admit them, they'll be in fat city. It doesn't work that way. Sure, the capital campaign might take 10 years, but if you're doing it, that shows you've made some kind of commitment. CSU needs to change their thinking in a big way. CU is not the enemy. CU is just another school. We don't have any more advantages than CSU has other than we have made some good decisions over the years that CSU hasn't.

 

[CsquaredCC]

This is what capital campaigns are for. You're thinking small, dude. I actually see a ton of potential at CSU, but the place is overrun by small minded people who think that if they can just persuade a BCS conference to admit them, they'll be in fat city. It doesn't work that way. Sure, the capital campaign might take 10 years, but if you're doing it, that shows you've made some kind of commitment. CSU needs to change their thinking in a big way. CU is not the enemy. CU is just another school. We don't have any more advantages than CSU has other than we have made some good decisions over the years that CSU hasn't.

I completely agree with you. I am not one of those guys who thinks CU has in any way attempted to keep CSU down. The leadership of the University frustrates me to no end. Fort Collins is one of the best places in the country to live and the city and University fit a BCS profile perfectly given its location to the metro. The capitol campaigns that have been initiated have been focused almost entirely on campus in recent years in an attempt to expand enrollement significantly. If CSU were smart, you are exactly right, it would announce plans for a 45-50K on-campus venue, complete with schematics and capital campaign plan to make it a reality. It blows my mind that apparently some in the University and the State don't see the unbelievable and untapped potential CSU has going for it.

 

[Junction]

Sackman you won't get any arguments from me! I would love nothing more than an on-campus venue. However, that will never happen unless the State of Colorado offers some assistance and steps up with a $100,000 + million dollar bonding initiative. Similar to what the Univesity of Washington is doing with its facilities. However, I just don't see that happening.

I'm not sure it would really require a $100 billion bonding initiative. But I guess you might as well shoot for the moon..... :smile2:

 

[Quattro]

**** csu.