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What Does College Football Have To Do With College?--NY Times article ft. Colorado

Ringer

Well-Known Member
You gotta read this one, written by a Buffs alum who is a sportswriter. Among other things, it gives an accurate and nostalgic feel for the excitement of game day at Folsom. The pictures and videos alone are worth the click. The NY Times article is paywalled, but I found a gift link in reddit. You're welcome.


Outstanding. Written by my friend John. Spoke to him the Friday before the Bailer game and the rat fink did not even mention me in the article.
 
I thought it was presented as "this is what's wrong with college football" by someone who states that he doesn't even believe that universities should have athletics.

I found it to be patronizing about how we care way too much and put way too much emphasis on a thing that's not the actual mission of the university. Then, in actuality, that premise gets turned on its head by everyone having an amazing time, strong emotional connections built by and between students, alums, community and CU but somehow that doesn't change the premise that college football is wrong.
 
I thought it was presented as "this is what's wrong with college football" by someone who states that he doesn't even believe that universities should have athletics.

I found it to be patronizing about how we care way too much and put way too much emphasis on a thing that's not the actual mission of the university. Then, in actuality, that premise gets turned on its head by everyone having an amazing time, strong emotional connections built by and between students, alums, community and CU but somehow that doesn't change the premise that college football is wrong.
Agree with Nik. I did not like the article. Its a way for us to identify and feel a sense of pride in our school, and remember some fun times we had and the relationships we made during a great period of time in our life.

The people that don’t get that should
just go to a small liberal arts college with no sports program and leave the rest of us alone.
 
I thought it was presented as "this is what's wrong with college football" by someone who states that he doesn't even believe that universities should have athletics.

I found it to be patronizing about how we care way too much and put way too much emphasis on a thing that's not the actual mission of the university. Then, in actuality, that premise gets turned on its head by everyone having an amazing time, strong emotional connections built by and between students, alums, community and CU but somehow that doesn't change the premise that college football is wrong.
I thought it gave a balanced approach. In the opening paragraphs he noted that at the end of the Baylor game his cynicism sort of washed away and he felt closer to answering the question. At the end, he mentioned meeting up with family and friends at Balch Fieldhouse, where he used to take refuge with his dad in the 70s during cold games. I think that Colorado comes out looking good in this national article, especially with the pics and videos.
 
I thought it gave a balanced approach. In the opening paragraphs he noted that at the end of the Baylor game his cynicism sort of washed away and he felt closer to answering the question. At the end, he mentioned meeting up with family and friends at Balch Fieldhouse, where he used to take refuge with his dad in the 70s during cold games. I think that Colorado comes out looking good in this national article, especially with the pics and videos.
That's the thing. Headline and setup was all about Prime being exhibit A for how universities sell their soul over something that isn't even part of the mission. Then there's a bunch of stuff that shows how much engagement it creates, but nothing about how it drives applications and donations to significantly enhance the mission success (or really even ties in that the great time everyone had actually has a lot of value). Then, he closes with an Onion reference and link at the end - so the "conclusion" is that reiteration of the opening that the football program is barely connected to the university. Nothing about the team setting a GPA record or its community volunteer work.

What I see is a guy who had a premise for the article, wrote an intro and conclusion based on preconception, and sandwiched in between it actual experience which should have led to a different conclusion or at least an acknowledgement that there's a legitimate counter opinion which has validity.

In short, I read it as "Prime negativity is great click bait but in actuality what I experienced was a great trip that called to mind fond memories, let me reconnect with friends and mentors, delivered a fantastic time, and showed how amazing a football game is for a university community (but you still should have a problem with it)".
 
That's the thing. Headline and setup was all about Prime being exhibit A for how universities sell their soul over something that isn't even part of the mission. Then there's a bunch of stuff that shows how much engagement it creates, but nothing about how it drives applications and donations to significantly enhance the mission success (or really even ties in that the great time everyone had actually has a lot of value). Then, he closes with an Onion reference and link at the end - so the "conclusion" is that reiteration of the opening that the football program is barely connected to the university. Nothing about the team setting a GPA record or its community volunteer work.

What I see is a guy who had a premise for the article, wrote an intro and conclusion based on preconception, and sandwiched in between it actual experience which should have led to a different conclusion or at least an acknowledgement that there's a legitimate counter opinion which has validity.

In short, I read it as "Prime negativity is great click bait but in actuality what I experienced was a great trip that called to mind fond memories, let me reconnect with friends and mentors, delivered a fantastic time, and showed how amazing a football game is for a university community (but you still should have a problem with it)".
You would think having a Buff writing positive pieces about CU would be a good thing.....
 
I thought it was presented as "this is what's wrong with college football" by someone who states that he doesn't even believe that universities should have athletics.

I found it to be patronizing about how we care way too much and put way too much emphasis on a thing that's not the actual mission of the university. Then, in actuality, that premise gets turned on its head by everyone having an amazing time, strong emotional connections built by and between students, alums, community and CU but somehow that doesn't change the premise that college football is wrong.
College sports are stupid as ****, when you really boil it down.
 
You would think having a Buff writing positive pieces about CU would be a good thing.....
You had to be invested enough to read a bit to get to the positive.

Put it this way: imagine it's not about CU and was about pro wrestling. Headline and intro were about how it's horrible for society, has misplaced values, and is something the author hasn't liked or approved of since he grew up. Then he goes to a WWE event, has a wonderful time, sees other people of different ages and socioeconomic profiles having a great time, learns that these events have millions of dollars in economic benefit to a host community... and doesn't alter his opinion. I wouldn't read that article and say it was a positive piece and my reasoning would be that the positivity from the actual observations was sandwiched between negativity which will be what most people will see.
 
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This certainly wasn’t a hit piece. It also isn’t very newsworthy or groundbreaking in its message.
 
Dude had a huge platform with a long form article in NYT and fumbled the bag in my opinion. Could have brought up the points mentioned about increased enrollment #’s overall plus people of color which in turn increases the quality of the potential student you can admit etc which drives up selectivity and rankings etc… the most annoying part was the line about how they can get prime gear refilled in 2 days but takes a teacher several
weeks to get extra desks….one produces revenue one doesn’t
 
This certainly wasn’t a hit piece. It also isn’t very newsworthy or groundbreaking in its message.
It was actually kind of a weird article. It's like it was pitched and promoted a certain way which wasn't supported and didn't materialize, but then it was run as if it was still that instead of the 80% which really supported a "Deion Sanders and college football: what's with all the hype?" headline with a reworked opening and closing.
 
Dude had a huge platform with a long form article in NYT and fumbled the bag in my opinion. Could have brought up the points mentioned about increased enrollment #’s overall plus people of color which in turn increases the quality of the potential student you can admit etc which drives up selectivity and rankings etc… the most annoying part was the line about how they can get prime gear refilled in 2 days but takes a teacher several
weeks to get extra desks….one produces revenue one doesn’t
Funny thing about the "Prime gear vs desks" thing is that they are unrelated. Different departments, personnel and budgets. And, as you said, one's a commercial enterprise of keeping a store stocked to avoid backorder. If it had been a case where the bookstore didn't restock course materials in a timely manner but did so for Prime brand gear, it would have been apples to apples and a meaningful criticism. Having a football program or not has nothing to do with the purchase of new desks (other than it having some impact on making it so desks are filled and university revenues and budgets are increased).
 
Funny thing about the "Prime gear vs desks" thing is that they are unrelated. Different departments, personnel and budgets. And, as you said, one's a commercial enterprise of keeping a store stocked to avoid backorder. If it had been a case where the bookstore didn't restock course materials in a timely manner but did so for Prime brand gear, it would have been apples to apples and a meaningful criticism. Having a football program or not has nothing to do with the purchase of new desks (other than it having some impact on making it so desks are filled and university revenues and budgets are increased).
The surgeon isn’t available for six weeks, but there is always fresh fruit daily in the hospital cafeteria. If the writer had gone to the CU business school, he might not have fallen into that trap.
 
You had to be invested enough to read a bit to get to the positive.

Put it this way: imagine it's not about CU and was about pro wrestling. Headline and intro were about how it's horrible for society, has misplaced values, and is something the author hasn't liked or approved of since he grew up. Then he goes to a WWE event, has a wonderful time, sees other people of different ages and socioeconomic profiles having a great time, learns that these events have millions of dollars in economic benefit to a host community... and doesn't alter his opinion. I wouldn't read that article and say it was a positive piece and my reasoning would be that the positivity from the actual observations was sandwiched between negativity which will be what most people will see.
I didn't know you could not be concerned about where CFB is going and still be a CU fan. I guess you learn something every day. I thought it was a good article. He was a local Buff fan, grew up and drifted away, but still sees the beauty and connection to CU through football even though CFB has become a money pit.

Maybe, just maybe, the NYT audience is broader than Prime fans, and he wrote the article for those folks too.

Kudos, John.
 
I didn't know you could not be concerned about where CFB is going and still be a CU fan. I guess you learn something every day. I thought it was a good article. He was a local Buff fan, grew up and drifted away, but still sees the beauty and connection to CU through football even though CFB has become a money pit.

Maybe, just maybe, the NYT audience is broader than Prime fans, and he wrote the article for those folks too.

Kudos, John.
Or maybe it was a piece with a poorly developed and disconnected narrative that failed to show any evolution of opinion or give any additional food for thought despite an initial premise that didn't hold much water. Glad he had a great time and his company paid for him to have a wonderful trip.
 
Or maybe it was a piece with a poorly developed and disconnected narrative that failed to show any evolution of opinion or give any additional food for thought despite an initial premise that didn't hold much water. Glad he had a great time and his company paid for him to have a wonderful trip.
Wow. I guess at the end of the day he's published in the NYT and you and I are bantering back and forth on a BBS.
 
Wow. I guess at the end of the day he's published in the NYT and you and I are bantering back and forth on a BBS.
Just because you suck at football doesn’t mean you can’t sit here and criticize Shedeur for holding the ball too long or Pat Shurmur’s playcalling.

Your personal relationship with the author is affecting your reaction to nik’s criticism here.
 
Why? @Burrito and @skibum you both liked this post, so I’m curious to hear your thoughts and why you’re in agreement.
It's a uniquely American thing. Millions of dollars are throw around at amateur athletes, and the guys who coach those athletes, are, many times the highest paid state employee.

It's just wildly backwards for what colleges are for...but like I said...uniquely American...meaning uniquely capitalistic. Plus it's frankly a poor way to develop talent for the pro leagues.

As Nik said...all entertainment is stupid at it's core.
 
Why? @Burrito and @skibum you both liked this post, so I’m curious to hear your thoughts and why you’re in agreement.
Is there a sport in the world that is *not* stupid as **** when you get right down to it?

"Let's take a ball, no not a round one, a sort of oblong shaped one, and then divide into teams and one team tries to push the ball into a particular direction, and the other team tries to tackle the guy with ball. And every time he gets tackled, we all stop, and then line up and start over. And then if the team doesn't move the ball far enough in four tries, the other team gets to try going the other way.

and I know, let's create a 75 page rule book to cover every single nuance and contingency just for fun.

Oh, you want Timmy to be able to play, and he lost his hands in the combiner when he was 8 so he can only kick the ball? Sure, we'll add some special rules for your special boy."

"Hey, let's hit a small ball with a stick and try and get the little ball into a hole in the ground. And whoever gets it in the hole hitting the fewest number of times wins. Oh and let's make sure you have to hit the ball over a river or a pond, and maybe some sand."

"I know, let's run over there really fast, and the one who gets their first wins!" "What do we win?" "Well, I dunno... hey let's call it a 'race,' you win the 'race!'" "But why?" "Because they haven't invented the internet yet?"

So we have all these pretty dumb silly sports, and we get serious about them, but... at the end of the day, they are games. They are all silly in their own way.

And then we have these institutions that are intended to educate people and to further science and our understanding of the world. What a great concept, this will really push civilization and society forward.

"Oooooh, oooooh, I know - we should make it core part of those institutions that they compete in all these silly games against each other!"

I mean, yes - it all really is stupid as ****.


But, it's fun as hell and we all love it because inside we'd all really like to just be 7 years old again when the most important thing in the world was our team winning whatever game it was that we happened to be playing at that moment.

It's amazing, wonderful, and dumb as ****.
 
Is there a sport in the world that is *not* stupid as **** when you get right down to it?

"Let's take a ball, no not a round one, a sort of oblong shaped one, and then divide into teams and one team tries to push the ball into a particular direction, and the other team tries to tackle the guy with ball. And every time he gets tackled, we all stop, and then line up and start over. And then if the team doesn't move the ball far enough in four tries, the other team gets to try going the other way.

and I know, let's create a 75 page rule book to cover every single nuance and contingency just for fun.

Oh, you want Timmy to be able to play, and he lost his hands in the combiner when he was 8 so he can only kick the ball? Sure, we'll add some special rules for your special boy."

"Hey, let's hit a small ball with a stick and try and get the little ball into a hole in the ground. And whoever gets it in the hole hitting the fewest number of times wins. Oh and let's make sure you have to hit the ball over a river or a pond, and maybe some sand."

"I know, let's run over there really fast, and the one who gets their first wins!" "What do we win?" "Well, I dunno... hey let's call it a 'race,' you win the 'race!'" "But why?" "Because they haven't invented the internet yet?"

So we have all these pretty dumb silly sports, and we get serious about them, but... at the end of the day, they are games. They are all silly in their own way.

And then we have these institutions that are intended to educate people and to further science and our understanding of the world. What a great concept, this will really push civilization and society forward.

"Oooooh, oooooh, I know - we should make it core part of those institutions that they compete in all these silly games against each other!"

I mean, yes - it all really is stupid as ****.


But, it's fun as hell and we all love it because inside we'd all really like to just be 7 years old again when the most important thing in the world was our team winning whatever game it was that we happened to be playing at that moment.

It's amazing, wonderful, and dumb as ****.
Basically...
1728353432620.png
 
It's a uniquely American thing. Millions of dollars are throw around at amateur athletes, and the guys who coach those athletes, are, many times the highest paid state employee.

It's just wildly backwards for what colleges are for...but like I said...uniquely American...meaning uniquely capitalistic. Plus it's frankly a poor way to develop talent for the pro leagues.

As Nik said...all entertainment is stupid at it's core.
You're saying the way the sport is handled from a business and economic standpoint is stupid. That doesn't mean the sport itself is stupid.

And @skibum saying it's stupid by boiling it down to taking a ball and pushing it in a direction is just a weird take.

Ok? If all entertainment is stupid, then why does it bring in so much money and happiness? With that attitude, everything we do as humans is stupid.
 
You're saying the way the sport is handled from a business and economic standpoint is stupid. That doesn't mean the sport itself is stupid.

And @skibum saying it's stupid by boiling it down to taking a ball and pushing it in a direction is just a weird take.

Ok? If all entertainment is stupid, then why does it bring in so much money and happiness? With that attitude, everything we do as humans is stupid.
Your conclusion checks out. Good job.
 
It's a uniquely American thing. Millions of dollars are throw around at amateur athletes, and the guys who coach those athletes, are, many times the highest paid state employee.

It's just wildly backwards for what colleges are for...but like I said...uniquely American...meaning uniquely capitalistic. Plus it's frankly a poor way to develop talent for the pro leagues.

As Nik said...all entertainment is stupid at it's core.

Is there a sport in the world that is *not* stupid as **** when you get right down to it?

"Let's take a ball, no not a round one, a sort of oblong shaped one, and then divide into teams and one team tries to push the ball into a particular direction, and the other team tries to tackle the guy with ball. And every time he gets tackled, we all stop, and then line up and start over. And then if the team doesn't move the ball far enough in four tries, the other team gets to try going the other way.

and I know, let's create a 75 page rule book to cover every single nuance and contingency just for fun.

Oh, you want Timmy to be able to play, and he lost his hands in the combiner when he was 8 so he can only kick the ball? Sure, we'll add some special rules for your special boy."

"Hey, let's hit a small ball with a stick and try and get the little ball into a hole in the ground. And whoever gets it in the hole hitting the fewest number of times wins. Oh and let's make sure you have to hit the ball over a river or a pond, and maybe some sand."

"I know, let's run over there really fast, and the one who gets their first wins!" "What do we win?" "Well, I dunno... hey let's call it a 'race,' you win the 'race!'" "But why?" "Because they haven't invented the internet yet?"

So we have all these pretty dumb silly sports, and we get serious about them, but... at the end of the day, they are games. They are all silly in their own way.

And then we have these institutions that are intended to educate people and to further science and our understanding of the world. What a great concept, this will really push civilization and society forward.

"Oooooh, oooooh, I know - we should make it core part of those institutions that they compete in all these silly games against each other!"

I mean, yes - it all really is stupid as ****.


But, it's fun as hell and we all love it because inside we'd all really like to just be 7 years old again when the most important thing in the world was our team winning whatever game it was that we happened to be playing at that moment.

It's amazing, wonderful, and dumb as ****.
I don’t find anything in either of these posts very compelling as to why college sports are stupid. I mean, I get that the rules of football and other sports are kind of silly and if that was what you actually meant, then OK.

If college sports are stupid because they’re not directly educating people in academia, then the entire social experience of college is stupid too.
 
I don’t find anything in either of these posts very compelling as to why college sports are stupid. I mean, I get that the rules of football and other sports are kind of silly and if that was what you actually meant, then OK.

If college sports are stupid because they’re not directly educating people in academia, then the entire social experience of college is stupid too.
I Mean Law And Order GIF by SVU
 
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