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What Does College Football Have To Do With College?--NY Times article ft. Colorado

Saying college sports are stupid is the same as the people claiming that degrees in Art, History, Music, Philosophy, etc are worthless. We’re all just a bunch of soulless robots that should attend class, go work for our Capitalist overlords and then die.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Just because you suck at football doesn’t mean you can’t sit here and criticize Shedeur for holding the ball too long or Pat Shurmur’s playcalling.

Your personal relationship with the author is affecting your reaction to nik’s criticism here.
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I enjoyed the article. I think the article was positive towards CU, critical towards where CFB is going. It isn't a lack of appreciation for nik's opinion, or anybody else's for that matter, I just disagree that it was poorly done.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
I don’t find anything in either of these posts very compelling as to why college sports are stupid. I mean, I get that the rules of football and other sports are kind of silly and if that was what you actually meant, then OK.

If college sports are stupid because they’re not directly educating people in academia, then the entire social experience of college is stupid too.
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I don't feel like explaining why in detail. It's mostly self-inflicted buzzkill
 
Buffnik said:
That's the thing. Headline and setup was all about Prime being exhibit A for how universities sell their soul over something that isn't even part of the mission. Then there's a bunch of stuff that shows how much engagement it creates, but nothing about how it drives applications and donations to significantly enhance the mission success (or really even ties in that the great time everyone had actually has a lot of value). Then, he closes with an Onion reference and link at the end - so the "conclusion" is that reiteration of the opening that the football program is barely connected to the university. Nothing about the team setting a GPA record or its community volunteer work.

What I see is a guy who had a premise for the article, wrote an intro and conclusion based on preconception, and sandwiched in between it actual experience which should have led to a different conclusion or at least an acknowledgement that there's a legitimate counter opinion which has validity.

In short, I read it as "Prime negativity is great click bait but in actuality what I experienced was a great trip that called to mind fond memories, let me reconnect with friends and mentors, delivered a fantastic time, and showed how amazing a football game is for a university community (but you still should have a problem with it)".
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The author didn’t interview a single Black person in an article about what Prime brings to the University.
 
Medford M. said:
It's a uniquely American thing. Millions of dollars are throw around at amateur athletes, and the guys who coach those athletes, are, many times the highest paid state employee.
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Have you seen how young children are taken from their family's to become part of a club's development program in Europe?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
I don’t find anything in either of these posts very compelling as to why college sports are stupid. I mean, I get that the rules of football and other sports are kind of silly and if that was what you actually meant, then OK.

If college sports are stupid because they’re not directly educating people in academia, then the entire social experience of college is stupid too.
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I think European countries would argue the "social experience" of college isn't really a thing.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
There is more to “the University mission” than academia, just like there’s more to a college education than getting a business/engineering/economics/hard sciences degree.
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Your second statement is true, but I question your understanding of academia given the entire context of this conversation. Burrito is also correct that you are making giant leaps of logic throughout the discussion.

There's part of "college" that really is nothing more than being young and not living with your parents anymore. People who don't go to college experience similar social growth when they are that same age. That's not "college," it's "being human in an advanced society." As @Medford M. points out, other societies don't view those social experiences and that part of growing up as a necessarily "college experience," but rather it's just a "life experience."

It's interesting to me that you are the one who assumed when I wrote "further science and our understanding of the world" that you assumed I only mean "business/engineering/economic/hard sciences." I think that says a lot more about you than it says about the argument at hand - it's also why I started this post chiding you about your understanding of academia.

I didn't think I needed to be explicit that expanding our understanding of the world includes "liberal arts" things like art, history, music, etc - but apparently I did.

Things can be silly. Things can be fun. Things can be stupid, and silly, and fun.

And... they can be stupid, silly, fun and important.

I get the argument that participation in sports teaches a lot of valuable life skills. But we all don't participate, and I have yet to learn a really valuable life skill by watching and cheering other people while they play a game.

But I can enjoy being part of a crowd, and I can enjoy connecting and bonding with friends and strangers.

There is no really good reason why that needs to be so closely tied to being a "college" experience.

In some ways, I could even argue that it's detrimental to the university mission. (Argument below: note, I'm not sure how much of this I buy, but it's definitely something to think about):

Put a bunch of twenty year olds in a mid or large size city. That city will create entertainment options for those kids, even if the university does not (note: this happens everywhere else in the world).

Now, when those 20 year olds go to the concerts, or sporting events, or whatever - instead of being surrounded with 90% of the kids going to the same school from similar social and economic backgrounds, they'll be there with all the kids from different backgrounds - you know, all the kids who don't go to college. Now, we're really talking about creating connections and bonds that bridge real differences.

When I talk to people who attended "uni" in other parts of the world, they'll talk about how while they were there they went to the local soccer club's games, or got into the <insert some genre of music> scene - and it's amazing how many times they'll talk about becoming regulars at some local watering hole where fans of that music/team whatever generally hang out, places where they ended up socially interacting with plumbers, trash haulers, mechanics, hair dressers, cleaning folks, etc. They were the same age, enjoyed the same music/team, and they spent this time in their life hanging out together. Then I compare that to the "college experience" of many American students, and well...
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
There is more to “the University mission” than academia, just like there’s more to a college education than getting a business/engineering/economics/hard sciences degree.
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That's how you think because that's how things are here. It's not really that way anywhere else.

The social experience is still there with or without sports.
 
Medford M. said:
That's how you think because that's how things are here. It's not really that way anywhere else.

The social experience is still there with or without sports.
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Uhhhhh well yeah. Why would I think about it like it’s Europe or India or China? We’re the third largest country in the world, we have our own culture, traditions and norms. Why do you keep comparing what we do here with what happens everywhere else? Why are college sports stupid just because other countries don’t have them?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Uhhhhh well yeah. Why would I think about it like it’s Europe or India or China? We’re the third largest country in the world, we have our own culture, traditions and norms. Why do you keep comparing what we do here with what happens everywhere else? Why are college sports stupid just because other countries don’t have them?
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I think they do, having seen the Harry Potter movies.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Why are college sports stupid just because other countries don’t have them?
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Literally no one in this thread has made that argument. Your pretending that they have is nothing but a red herring to mask your own leaps of logic.
 
skibum said:
Literally no one in this thread has made that argument. Your pretending that they have is nothing but a red herring to mask your own leaps of logic.
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Literally every post by Medford in this thread, after his statement that college sports are dumb, is using the experience, culture and norms of other countries to prop up his argument. Half of your own argument was about other countries and how they bond and interact in social settings without sports being associated with the “uni”. So in the context of this discussion, the two people engaging have literally used what happens in other countries as a way to back up their position that college sports are fundamentally stupid. That’s not a leap of logic no matter how many time you say it.
Medford M. said:
It's a uniquely American thing. Millions of dollars are throw around at amateur athletes, and the guys who coach those athletes, are, many times the highest paid state employee.

It's just wildly backwards for what colleges are for...but like I said...uniquely American...meaning uniquely capitalistic. Plus it's frankly a poor way to develop talent for the pro leagues.

As Nik said...all entertainment is stupid at it's core.
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Medford M. said:
I think European countries would argue the "social experience" of college isn't really a thing.
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Medford M. said:
That's how you think because that's how things are here. It's not really that way anywhere else.

The social experience is still there with or without sports.
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The Alabaster Yak said:
Literally every post by Medford in this thread, after his statement that college sports are dumb, is using the experience, culture and norms of other countries to prop up his argument. Half of your own argument was about other countries and how they bond and interact in social settings without sports being associated with the “uni”. So in the context of this discussion, the two people engaging have literally used what happens in other countries as a way to back up their position that college sports are fundamentally stupid. That’s not a leap of logic no matter how many time you say it.
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You have to understand...IMO...all the things about the US that make it unique, are the things that make it bad/worse than other places.
 
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The Alabaster Yak said:
Literally every post by Medford in this thread, after his statement that college sports are dumb, is using the experience, culture and norms of other countries to prop up his argument. Half of your own argument was about other countries and how they bond and interact in social settings without sports being associated with the “uni”. So in the context of this discussion, the two people engaging have literally used what happens in other countries as a way to back up their position that college sports are fundamentally stupid. That’s not a leap of logic no matter how many time you say it.
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High school sports serve a purpose. Pro sports serve a purpose.

College sports really don't need to exist, except to serve as a feeder system to the professionals because we've built the system that way. They're a waste of resources.

You gotta understand I'm no fun. I didn't attend games when I was IN college. I've never attended a game or concert that someone else didn't pay for.

I don't even necessarily see sports as "entertainment".
 
Medford M. said:
High school sports serve a purpose. Pro sports serve a purpose.

College sports really don't need to exist, except to serve as a feeder system to the professionals because we've built the system that way. They're a waste of resources.

You gotta understand I'm no fun. I didn't attend games when I was IN college. I've never attended a game or concert that someone else didn't pay for.

I don't even necessarily see sports as "entertainment".
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Yet you’re enough of a fan of college football to be fairly knowledgeable about the game, frequent a college sports blog where you only talk about college football, and have a username that takes after an above average but not overly memorable former CU player?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
There is more to “the University mission” than academia, just like there’s more to a college education than getting a business/engineering/economics/hard sciences degree.
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I have more energy for you this morning. Incoherent rant inbound...

I hope you're ready for doom and gloom. I make Darth and Les look like the ****ing pikers they are.

College football is the canary in the coal mine for American Society.

I didn't understand that it already was in process when I was younger, and with all that's happening currently, the trajectory is a farm league that is moving away from the university in every way but logo. The imaginary values I thought the university imbued and by extension the football team do not exist.

It's becoming less and less interesting to me. I don't watch the NFL cause I don't care about players or outcomes. It's already happening with the transfer rules in college. Who's on the roster? What did they cost? Who cares? Meh.

Pre-Prime, my fandom was at an all time low. Post Prime, I expect it to be less again. I'm a fan by habit more than anything else at this point.

I used to consider a Saturday a win if I could watch football all day and all night. Now I consider it a waste of time.

Based on your vigorous effort, I suspect these kinds of thoughts are creeping in to your consciousness and sitting in the deep dark corners of your brain. It gets worse as you get a few more 35s under your belt.

As for university mission and college experience, I question the mission. A very small percentage of American youth experience college the way we did. Many are getting Associates degrees and attending bigger schools for 1-2 years. Many are older students returning to school, many are earning online degrees. You're chasing an illusion.

Sko Buffs!
 
all the talk of the university's mission led me to look up CU's mission statement. it's a reach to convince myself that football directly supports that.

CU Boulder’s vision is grounded in its statutory mission as a national public research university. In Colorado statute, the university is defined as the “comprehensive graduate research university with selective admissions standards . . . offer(ing) a comprehensive array of undergraduate, master and doctoral degree programs” of what is now designated the University of Colorado System.

CU Boulder recognizes the exceptional opportunities associated with its role as a research university, and values the unique strength and character research achievements bring to undergraduate education. It is keenly aware of its responsibility for educating the next generation of citizens and leaders, and for fostering the spirit of discovery through research. Indeed, CU Boulder believes that its students, both graduate and undergraduate, benefit from the comprehensive mix of programs and research excellence that characterize a flagship university. Thus, CU Boulder’s statutory mission is relevant today and will remain relevant tomorrow.
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The Alabaster Yak said:
The Alabaster Yak said:
Care to retract your previous statement, @skibum?
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Nope.

Still don't think you actually understand what either of us is arguing (and, to be clear, we're arguing different things), rather you read part of it and then jump to a conclusion that is fundamentally different than what either of us is writing.

If you left it there, it'd be fine, but then you argue against a conclusion which has not been drawn, and proceed to criticize us for the leap in logic that you made.

Either way, it's clear to me that you're arguing this from a standpoint of emotion (nttawt - seriously, it's a valid basis for argument), but it's blinding you to the logic of the counterpoint.
 
I read the article when it was linked in one of the other threads, and I didn't feel either insulted or vilified by it. I do agree with Buffnik's point that it "high pointed" at least in the title (which the journalist never gets to choose, that's editors up the chain)......the Prime hate zeitgeist a bit.

We are the flash right now.

So be it, and the business of (almost) all media is selling audiences to advertisers.....hardly a novel point these days, given conference re-alignment.

Blanket statement, I generally read anything in the NYT that 1. has to do with the western US (the Provinces, flyover country) and 2. College sport (Plebeian bread and circus) with a grain of salt.

Again, so be it.
 
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