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What happened?

So this is interesting. This is Scott's stats versus CSU over his career here:

2014: 0-7, 2 points, 8 boards,2 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal, 0 turnovers, 2 fouls
2013: 2-4, 6 points, 7 boards, 0 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals, 1 turnover, 4 fouls
2012: 2-8, 4 points, 3 boards, 0 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 1 turnover, 4 fouls

So for some reason, this is starting to be his worst game of the season, he is well below his averages in points and shooting %, has less rebounds and more fouls.
 
BuffG said:
+4 with Ski in the game barely says anything. .
Click to expand...
[MENTION=9402]BuffG[/MENTION]

Apologies I went back to the data and realized I had an error in there, figuring out the sub patterns from play-by-play is tough, Ski was actually +6 for the game, fwiw the most recent data I could find has CU's home-court advantage at 7.2 points.
 
tante said:
So this is interesting. This is Scott's stats versus CSU over his career here:

2014: 0-7, 2 points, 8 boards,2 assists, 0 blocks, 1 steal, 0 turnovers, 2 fouls
2013: 2-4, 6 points, 7 boards, 0 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals, 1 turnover, 4 fouls
2012: 2-8, 4 points, 3 boards, 0 assists, 1 block, 1 steal, 1 turnover, 4 fouls

So for some reason, this is starting to be his worst game of the season, he is well below his averages in points and shooting %, has less rebounds and more fouls.
Click to expand...

Eustachey is a damn good coach give him time to scheme a guy out of a game who doesn't dominate the ball and he will.
 
absinthe said:
Apologies I went back to the data and realized I had a math error in there, figuring out the sub patterns from play-by-play is touch, SKi was +6 for the game, fwiw the most recent data I could find has CU's home-court advantage at 7.2 points.
Click to expand...

Roland Rating is a stat that basically takes a players on-court +/- and subtracts the off court +/-. So, for example, if the Buffs are +2 with Ski on the floor and +2 with Ski off, his RR would be 0 for that game. Here's everyone's RR for the CSU game.

Askia Booker +8 (+3/-5)
Tre'Shaun Fletcher -10 (-6/+4)
Wesley Gordon +2 (0/-2)
Jaron Hopkins -12 (-7/+5)
Xavier Johnson +8 (+3/-5)
Tory Miller +2 (0/-2)
Josh Scott +4 (+1/-3)
Eli Stalzer -2 (-2/0)
Xavier Talton +4 (+1/-3)
Dustin Thomas -4 (-3/+1)
 
Goose said:
Roland Rating is a stat that basically takes a players on-court +/- and subtracts the off court +/-. So, for example, if the Buffs are +2 with Ski on the floor and +2 with Ski off, his RR would be 0 for that game. Here's everyone's RR for the CSU game.

Askia Booker +8 (+3/-5)
Tre'Shaun Fletcher -10 (-6/+4)
Wesley Gordon +2 (0/-2)
Jaron Hopkins -12 (-7/+5)
Xavier Johnson +8 (+3/-5)
Tory Miller +2 (0/-2)
Josh Scott +4 (+1/-3)
Eli Stalzer -2 (-2/0)
Xavier Talton +4 (+1/-3)
Dustin Thomas -4 (-3/+1)
Click to expand...

Thanks, Goose I was doing this work from the CU play-by-play which was a total bitch, can you link where on the site you pulled that from? Also do you know where to pull more recent HomeCourt advantage stats? I could only find good ones for 2012
 
I guess I will put this response in this thread - there seems to about 20 threads on this game.

After the game I was disappointed but thought it was a pretty exciting contest. I guess I was not too shocked by the loss because I thought it was 50-50 that CU would win and it was only that high because it was on our home court.

When I got on this board I was totally shocked with the overwhelming negative reaction from CU fans. I thought I had totally missed keys in this game. I did something I very seldom do with basketball- I went and watched the game on the DVR and looked for some of the things other fans were talking about. In the end I was more convinced in my initial thoughts on the game.

1. Ski was not the problem and anyone who thinks he was is crazy. He had a pretty good game and without him we are not in this game at all.
2. CSU had a good game plan against Scott, I think if there is any criticism it would be in this area. Scott took only 2 shots in the second half - Daniels was the toughest defender on Scott and had 3 fouls early in the second half and had to go to the bench but CU looked like they gave up in the second half on using Scott in the offense- only 2 shots in the second half. That would be my major beef - try to establish Scott especially when Daniels went to the bench. People focus on the 0-7 shooting but Scott only got to the FT line once. A big part of CU's game is to get to the line more than our opponents.
3. CU scrapped until the end and almost pulled it out. CSU had a lot to do with the outcome, they are a well-coached team with high basketball IQ. We are not going to see that many teams that disciplined on defense (most players don't like defense). CSU took away the low post in the half-court offense and we did not have an answer, hopefully next time we will.
4. Collier would make a difference, CU does not have a true point guard - but neither does CSU.
5. The game was very well officiated, they called it a little tight but I thought they called it the same both ways. If CU has a complaint it is because they did not get as big of home court premium as you do sometimes (something I hate about BB). Did they miss things - of course. It happens.
6. Overall CU has to grow more as a team but we knew that going into the game. Bench play has to get better. Never have been a fan of Boyle's offense and he has to improve that - going to Karl is an acknowledgement but I am not sure he is the guy I would go to.

Overall I thought it was a good game. I think a lot of fans are outraged because it was CSU but they are a good team and have a shot at the NCAA tourney...CU has more athletes but CSU has more BB players - Avila and Daniels impressed me a lot. There is a lot of Basketball left and this game does not define this team.
 
azbuff said:
You don't need to claim it when your attitude reflects it. Good luck this season. I look forward to your inevitable collapse in the Sweet 16. Be better at trolling.
Click to expand...

That's the difference between you and me I don't wish bad things on Colorado. I think the Wyoming game got in your players heads and caused a little downward spiral. There are three ranked PAC 12 teams so that might help your Buffalo's in conference play. By the way how did you become a Colorado fan after going to the UofA?
 
BlackNGold said:
I guess I will put this response in this thread - there seems to about 20 threads on this game.

After the game I was disappointed but thought it was a pretty exciting contest. I guess I was not too shocked by the loss because I thought it was 50-50 that CU would win and it was only that high because it was on our home court.

When I got on this board I was totally shocked with the overwhelming negative reaction from CU fans. I thought I had totally missed keys in this game. I did something I very seldom do with basketball- I went and watched the game on the DVR and looked for some of the things other fans were talking about. In the end I was more convinced in my initial thoughts on the game.

1. Ski was not the problem and anyone who thinks he was is crazy. He had a pretty good game and without him we are not in this game at all.
2. CSU had a good game plan against Scott, I think if there is any criticism it would be in this area. Scott took only 2 shots in the second half - Daniels was the toughest defender on Scott and had 3 fouls early in the second half and had to go to the bench but CU looked like they gave up in the second half on using Scott in the offense- only 2 shots in the second half. That would be my major beef - try to establish Scott especially when Daniels went to the bench. People focus on the 0-7 shooting but Scott only got to the FT line once. A big part of CU's game is to get to the line more than our opponents.
3. CU scrapped until the end and almost pulled it out. CSU had a lot to do with the outcome, they are a well-coached team with high basketball IQ. We are not going to see that many teams that disciplined on defense (most players don't like defense). CSU took away the low post in the half-court offense and we did not have an answer, hopefully next time we will.
4. Collier would make a difference, CU does not have a true point guard - but neither does CSU.
5. The game was very well officiated, they called it a little tight but I thought they called it the same both ways. If CU has a complaint it is because they did not get as big of home court premium as you do sometimes (something I hate about BB). Did they miss things - of course. It happens.
6. Overall CU has to grow more as a team but we knew that going into the game. Bench play has to get better. Never have been a fan of Boyle's offense and he has to improve that - going to Karl is an acknowledgement but I am not sure he is the guy I would go to.

Overall I thought it was a good game. I think a lot of fans are outraged because it was CSU but they are a good team and have a shot at the NCAA tourney...CU has more athletes but CSU has more BB players - Avila and Daniels impressed me a lot. There is a lot of Basketball left and this game does not define this team.
Click to expand...

I think the 'outrage' is at CU's ongoing listless, sloppy, lackluster play moreso than CSU. I missed the GA game so can't comment on that one. CSU's #4 Guard drove to bucket and got fouled a lot, which our guards do not seem to be able to do. Also, the inability to get crisp, timely passes into the post (when Scott isn't 20' from the hoop) is maddening. What about this team's recent play gives you hope for winning games against decent compeetition, which CSU is?
 
89BUFF89 said:
I think the 'outrage' is at CU's ongoing listless, sloppy, lackluster play moreso than CSU. I missed the GA game so can't comment on that one. CSU's #4 Guard drove to bucket and got fouled a lot, which our guards do not seem to be able to do. Also, the inability to get crisp, timely passes into the post (when Scott isn't 20' from the hoop) is maddening. What about this team's recent play gives you hope for winning games against decent compeetition, which CSU is?
Click to expand...

I think this is right. It also feels like things that are easy for other teams (like getting to the bucket) are hard for us. Combine that with a bunch of folks looking forward to basketball season since September and the frustration is understandable.
 
AzCat83 said:
By the way how did you become a Colorado fan after going to the UofA?
Click to expand...

Boulder > Tucson

Unless you like a high pawn store to bank ratio. Tucson is a down market Palm Springs, without Vegas's reckless abandonment.

Unless you live on a fixed income and are obsessed with bird watching, volunteering within the aviation memorabilia industry, and bathing in white guilt over the plight of Native Americans.

Not one damn river bed holds water in that dusty town.

Tucson is death's waiting room, and U of A athletics is what is playing on the TV.
 
sweaty teets said:
Tucson ain't that bad. The surrounding area is beautiful.
Click to expand...

True. Most Pac 12 destinations are WAY better than what you find in other conferences. The variety of the PAC12 is amazing, too.

I do like Tucson better than Phoenix and Corvallis.
 
Without Dinwiddie, this is a very average basketball team. That was obvious last year once he went down. Some of the Allbuffers need to get their heads out of the clouds and just let things develop. Tad is a good coach but he needs some players. :huh:
 
I wouldn't call this team average. They are better than that. They are definitely underachieving, though. Particular the Sophomores who look like total garbage. This team is more than good enough to beat Georgia at Georgia and CSU at home. I don't worry about Ski, Josh, and XJ. They'll be who they are and they'll be fine. My real concern is this Sophomore class becoming a total bust. Gordon looks to be the farthest along. The other three - Tre, DT, and Jaron continue to be unimpressive and in too many cases, detrimental.

PAHIBuff said:
Without Dinwiddie, this is a very average basketball team. That was obvious last year once he went down. Some of the Allbuffers need to get their heads out of the clouds and just let things develop. Tad is a good coach but he needs some players. :huh:
Click to expand...
 
Da Lama said:
I wouldn't call this team average. They are better than that. They are definitely underachieving, though. Particular the Sophomores who look like total garbage. This team is more than good enough to beat Georgia at Georgia and CSU at home. I don't worry about Ski, Josh, and XJ. They'll be who they are and they'll be fine. My real concern is this Sophomore class becoming a total bust. Gordon looks to be the farthest along. The other three - Tre, DT, and Jaron continue to be unimpressive and in too many cases, detrimental.
Click to expand...

I share your concerns. I'm not all that worried about Fletcher, I think he is putting it all together still and that injury just delayed his development. Jaron you see flashes from so it still may click. DT is a bigger question mark for me right now.
 
I don't understand the Dustin hate. He is doing what they expect him to do and honestly making less mistakes than Jhop and Fletch as of the CSU game (where Fletch was terrible).

I think our expectations are just to high for some of them.
 
AzCat83 said:
By the way how did you become a Colorado fan after going to the UofA?
Click to expand...

Born and raised in Colorado, I grew up bleeding black and gold and almost annually having my heart ripped out the day after Thanksgiving by the Nubs. Plus, you have to go to undergrad before law school and I applied to one school and one school only - Boulder. The only reason I went to UA for law school was to get away from a bad ex that was sticking around Boulder. I thought it would have the added side benefit of experiencing a "basketball" school, but the program was probably at its lowest point in 30 years almost from the second I stepped on campus. Maybe I should think about returning to get my LLM.
 
azbuff said:
Born and raised in Colorado, I grew up bleeding black and gold and almost annually having my heart ripped out the day after Thanksgiving by the Nubs. Plus, you have to go to undergrad before law school and I applied to one school and one school only - Boulder. The only reason I went to UA for law school was to get away from a bad ex that was sticking around Boulder. I thought it would have the added side benefit of experiencing a "basketball" school, but the program was probably at its lowest point in 30 years almost from the second I stepped on campus. Maybe I should think about returning to get my LLM.
Click to expand...


That was right at the end of Olson, most say 2005 was the end for him. Very glad we have Miller!
 
can we stop responding to these Arizona idots? I don't give a **** about what they did or didn't do almost a decade ago in basketball.
 
absinthe said:
@BuffG

Apologies I went back to the data and realized I had an error in there, figuring out the sub patterns from play-by-play is tough, Ski was actually +6 for the game, fwiw the most recent data I could find has CU's home-court advantage at 7.2 points.
Click to expand...

@absinthe a 2 point differential in +/- says as little as your original assertion.

Goose said:
Roland Rating is a stat that basically takes a players on-court +/- and subtracts the off court +/-. So, for example, if the Buffs are +2 with Ski on the floor and +2 with Ski off, his RR would be 0 for that game. Here's everyone's RR for the CSU game.

Askia Booker +8 (+3/-5)
Tre'Shaun Fletcher -10 (-6/+4)
Wesley Gordon +2 (0/-2)
Jaron Hopkins -12 (-7/+5)
Xavier Johnson +8 (+3/-5)
Tory Miller +2 (0/-2)
Josh Scott +4 (+1/-3)
Eli Stalzer -2 (-2/0)
Xavier Talton +4 (+1/-3)
Dustin Thomas -4 (-3/+1)
Click to expand...

Ken Pomeroy on +/- "In summary, plus-mius, while neat to look at, is a poor tool in college basketball analysis"

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/a_treatise_on_plus_minus
 
BuffG said:
Ken Pomeroy on +/- "In summary, plus-mius, while neat to look at, is a poor tool in college basketball analysis"

Click to expand...

Certainly KP knows more than I ever will and is right on +/- I was looking for a simple stat on that could be easily digestible without writing a treatise on the game. Ultimately if 1 other player on the roster not named Ski/XJ/or Wes plays just to ski's level (who was the worst of the best) in this game we win it.

As said elsewhere in this thread the loss is/was on the staff and J40 as he admitted sucking.
 
wyobuff said:
This. I could live if it was wazzu or usc even. but CSU?
Click to expand...

This is a silly reaction, I get it, I do because its little brother. But they are well coached, talented, senior laden team. That is off to their best start in school history, will make the dance, and contend for the title in what is a good MWC conference. This isnt football where we are former national champion losing to a non-P5 upstart.
 
No i understand it's a silly reaction. USC/WAZZU would be the type of terrible loss that will tank our fledgling tourney hopes, whereas this loss to csu probably wont look that bad at the end of the season. It's just the attitude that those jerk-offs have after they win.....
 
Eustachy is 59 - and like a Jim Larranaga jumping to Miami 4 years ago at about the same age - would do be an excellent hire for a power conference program in need of a turnaround or just needing a solid coach. Eustachy is a rebuild master, though. I think he enjoys being at CSU and the MWC isn't a bad place to be for hoops, but if the right fit from a bigger program came around, he'd do a damn good job. He'd stabilize and make one of the struggling Pac programs a threat in a hurry. He'd be a great fit at somewhere like ASU or even UNLV, all jokes of his past aside.
 
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