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What is Greg Brown doing on defense? Worst I've ever seen...

My expectations for this team and the number of wins has been incorrect. Have I gone overboard with blaming greg brown? Maybe, and firing him after 1 year wouldn't make sense but I still don't think he is the guy we'll see. I doubt I'm the first or last to over-react after another bad loss on the road.

People say a lot of stuff in frustration, you have been a loyal and dedicated Buff fan long enough to have a right to be frustrated with what is going on.

I think what we are going to get in Brown is what we knew we had from the start. He is never going to be your leader as a recruiter, doesn't have the personality and isn't the salesman who connects with kids in a way that makes them identify with a school before they ever get there, we have some other guys on the roster who have that job.

What we do get is a highly respected position coach. He did develop two guys from middle of the road recruits to NFL draft choices, he coached in the NFL getting a ring and would be an NFL coach now if he wanted to be. Is he a DC, we don't know, he hasn't done it before but I'm guessing that once he has some players he will be.

If he doesn't make significant steps forward next year and in the following years then yes fire him.

As frustrated as we are I'd expect that the coaches to a man are feeling sick to their stomachs over this year. If not then they should be fired now.
 
THANK YOU! ... ...people of course can be (and should be based on performance) critical of the team and staff, but these reactions have been much too exaggerated. Practically everyone on these boards knew that syko and jimmy would lose it, but come on...some of you are surprising. Yes, the years of futility have become frustrating, but don't lose it...
I agree I am as frustrated as everyone but seriously guys how are you gonna blame a DC that lost 7 of his top 8 CB coming into the season. For all those complaining about Brown please tell me what you would be doing? You can't blitz and leave 4th/5th string players on the corner alone without getting killed. If you don't blitz you get picked apart by the next #1 pick and another potential first round pick from UW. If you run a zone Andrew Luck or Price will destroy you 10 yards at a time. So basically we have established you can't run a true zone and you can't run a true man D........ So yesterday they ran a shallow zone with man corners and 2 deep safeties.... AKA a combo of man and zone. And shockingly enough we still got burned. This has nothing to do with the DC or Cabral or Embo.... this has to do with the fact we have lost 7/8 of the 4 deep roster at CB and lack talent on the D Line to get pressure without blitzing. Things will get better guys.... just keep supporting the players and coaches and give them some time to fix the unreal mess Dan Talkins left in boulder.
 
People say a lot of stuff in frustration, you have been a loyal and dedicated Buff fan long enough to have a right to be frustrated with what is going on.

I think what we are going to get in Brown is what we knew we had from the start. He is never going to be your leader as a recruiter, doesn't have the personality and isn't the salesman who connects with kids in a way that makes them identify with a school before they ever get there, we have some other guys on the roster who have that job.

What we do get is a highly respected position coach. He did develop two guys from middle of the road recruits to NFL draft choices, he coached in the NFL getting a ring and would be an NFL coach now if he wanted to be. Is he a DC, we don't know, he hasn't done it before but I'm guessing that once he has some players he will be.

If he doesn't make significant steps forward next year and in the following years then yes fire him.

As frustrated as we are I'd expect that the coaches to a man are feeling sick to their stomachs over this year. If not then they should be fired now.

I agree, and you can see the frustration. You know they are working hard and the attitude and mind set on winning will change with each day.
 
Schemes do not cover up lack of talent. CU lacks talent for several reasons - One being they did not recruit well and the second being they did not develop the players once they got here. I see the amount of arm tackling going on and I want to puke - seldom do I see a shoulder put into a runner on a tackle and this has been going on for several years.

As far as coach Brown goes, I believe it is unfair to judge him on this season. The people who say he was bad at Arizona are crazy - they were Ranked #33 in total Defense last year and look at them this ( not in the top 100). As far as recruiting Brown is a solid recruiter - not on the same level as EB but not chopped liver.

We knew the defense was going to be a problem this year and with injuries and suspensions it is worst than we thought.
 
I'm hardly a Greg Brown fan right now, but it's hard to judge based on this season alone. Our defensive backfield is literally high school level. And not even Texas 5A high school, it's like New Mexico level. Jason Espinoza and Terrell Smith are getting serious minutes at corner. Those two don't have any business lining up across from a WR, especially not WRs like UW has. Some of that is talent that Greg Brown recruited, or rather, didn't, but a lot of that is on a ridiculous amount of injuries.

I understand that his recruiting sucked ass for a few years there, but people seem to like Washington so far at safety. Henderson is obviously pretty solid and before he went down, Harrington was apparently better than Henderson. Bell was also apparently looking pretty good, so.. while he has recruited the likes of Moten and Terrell Smith among others, he has recruited a few decent ones. Again, don't get me wrong, I think he should definitely get a shorter leash than other staff members because of this, but one year under these circumstances is seeming a little tough. And did I really spot Jimmy talking **** on his year at Arizona because Oregon dropped 500 yards and 48 points on his defense? C'mon now. That was literally a below average game for Oregon last year.

We also have to understand that these guys (Brown and Cabral) were here long before Hawk ever came along. They were both here during the years we're trying to get back to, so it's not like they are both tainted by Hawk. They know the kind of football we're trying to play, we're just ****ed because it can't be done with Hawk's players. That kind of leads me to questioning why Brown thought we could run a 3-4 hybrid or whatever it is we're running with a couple of 230 pound DEs. You guys want to know why we couldn't stop the run vs UW? Look no further than that imo.

Either way, I don't see Embree firing his guys one year into this thing, so I see no reason to get my hopes up for said event. Hopefully Embree isn't as hard headed as Hawk and will fire his buddies if it becomes necessary, but I don't think we're there yet.
 
I'm not calling for anyone to be fired, but that was the most pathetic defensive performance I have seen since a D2 team played Mizzery. We obviously don't have the talent, but our guys also look completely clueless out there.

I am sick of losing, but worse I am sick of getting pummeled by average teams. I understand the frustration expressed here by Syko and others.

This program needs an enema! We need something major from the AD in support of football. These coaches aren't going to be able to do it alone. Follow the basketball model.
 
At this point, scheme-wise, I think CU should “sell out” to stop the pass. Make ‘em beat you on the ground. At least the other team will likely be forced to run more plays and really earn their touchdowns. Death by pitch and catch is horrible. It’s too easy for the other team. They don’t even have to break a sweat.
 
That maybe the worst idea I have ever heard. Do you know how many NFL linebackers he has produced? How many other teams have a position coach with his loyalty and devotion to a program? How many schools have a position coach that have coached multiple Butkus winners and finalists? How many LB coaches in the NCAA can show up to recruit a kid wearing an NFL championship ring? How many Island kids come here because of him? Do you think there is a reason EVERY SINGLE HC for the past 2 decades has never even thought about bringing in another LB coach? Come on I know the season is rough but we expected this might take a couple years but blaming Cabral is ridiculous in my opinion


Nice to see that Cabral has a lifetime appointment as linebackers coach cause he coached some great players in the 90's...


Last I looked we have an awful talent base on the team and Cabral was part of the program the last 5 years.
 
I want to hate brown for his D... but I can't right now due to injuries. That said, this mulligan is the end of the excuse road from him. He better put a better D on the field next year, or I will want his head on a platter.
 
I want to hate brown for his D... but I can't right now due to injuries. That said, this mulligan is the end of the excuse road from him. He better put a better D on the field next year, or I will want his head on a platter.


every program has injuries. the guys we lost were not All Pac 12 type players.
 
This board cracks me up. Did anyone seriously have us winning a single game in this four game stretch (Stanford, @UW, Oregon, @ASU)? What were we expecting? We're way too optimistic through spring ball and fall camp and way too frantically distraught after losses we should see coming. We have got to remember not to get too high or too low.
 
My question is, what has brown done for you? Please don't tell me jimmy smith and jalil brown. I see no reason why a 3rd string wr is covering the best wr on ashington's team none. Scott's liquid gold could cover better than our db's. We either want to do it right or just keep blaming depth. Well, you think recruits and especially "The new staff's recruits" are going to be lining up to come play for this team? People keep saying wait til embree gets his recruits in. Talent isn't coming when they keep seeing this team get blasted each week.

It's not just the secondary, it's the way our LB'S are always out of position. Just look at major, he should be making plays all over the field, instead he's 3 yds behind the de just standing there. Why can't brown come up with a way to get a 3rd down stop?

We all Knew this wasn't going to be a stellar year but please, 1-6?

I only saw parts of the first half, so correct me if I'm wrong, but Espinoza exclusively lined up against an inside receiver while Smith and Hendo covered the outside receivers. I assume the reason for this is that Espinoza is a WR who doesn't know how to play CB yet and playing on the inside is the easiest to learn quickly. Every play I saw had Smith playing left corner, possibly for similar reasons. So UW was able to effectively choose which CB covered which WRs because most (all?) of our CBs only know how to play one corner spot. My guess is that Brown knew that Espinoza was a mismatch no matter what WR he covered, so you'd prefer to at least have him in a position on the field he marginally knows how to play, rather than having him in an even weaker position with perhaps a more favorable match up with the WR.

Most of this is moot anyway, they were in zone for much of the day that I saw. So saying Espy was covering any of their WRs isn't exactly an accurate statement.
 
every program has injuries. the guys we lost were not All Pac 12 type players.

Exactly. And there was no depth behind them. We started with a mix of experienced guys who don't have talent along with inexperienced guys who may have talent.

Regardless...

At cornerback, we lost 6 of the 7 best that we had (Harrington, Bell, Orms, Sandersfeld, Olatoye, Vigo). If Alabama lost 6 of its 7 best corners, do you think its pass defense would get worse? Based on your posts, you don't. You would think the struggles were the fault of the coordinator's schemes.
 
Exactly. And there was no depth behind them. We started with a mix of experienced guys who don't have talent along with inexperienced guys who may have talent.

Regardless...

At cornerback, we lost 6 of the 7 best that we had (Harrington, Bell, Orms, Sandersfeld, Olatoye, Vigo). If Alabama lost 6 of its 7 best corners, do you think its pass defense would get worse? Based on your posts, you don't. You would think the struggles were the fault of the coordinator's schemes.


You act like the first DB on the team is much better than the 7th. I don't see any difference. And who's fault is that we don't have a talented players in the secondary?

The defense was been terrible for years with or without injuries. All I see is the same damn coaches on that side of the ball. If they can't recruit, can't make ordinary players look good in their schemes then how exactly are we going to get better as a program?
 
You act like the first DB on the team is much better than the 7th. I don't see any difference. And who's fault is that we don't have a talented players in the secondary?

The defense was been terrible for years with or without injuries. All I see is the same damn coaches on that side of the ball. If they can't recruit, can't make ordinary players look good in their schemes then how exactly are we going to get better as a program?

How could you? The 1st 3 CBs all went down early! And don't tell me you aren't seeing a big difference between CB #4 (Henderson) and the guys after him. So, if CB #4 is waayyyy better than CBs 5-7... Guess maybe you COULD, perhaps, infer that CB #1 was better?
 
How could you? The 1st 3 CBs all went down early! And don't tell me you aren't seeing a big difference between CB #4 (Henderson) and the guys after him. So, if CB #4 is waayyyy better than CBs 5-7... Guess maybe you COULD, perhaps, infer that CB #1 was better?

Quoted for trooth.
 
How could you? The 1st 3 CBs all went down early! And don't tell me you aren't seeing a big difference between CB #4 (Henderson) and the guys after him. So, if CB #4 is waayyyy better than CBs 5-7... Guess maybe you COULD, perhaps, infer that CB #1 was better?

I suppose it is possible that our first few CBs are not any better than Jason Espinoza, but there is no way I can be that cynical. Espinoza is a good Buff who is trying to make the best of a really bad situation, but I am sure even he would admit most of the injured/suspended CBs are better than him, some of them much better.
 
You act like the first DB on the team is much better than the 7th. I don't see any difference. And who's fault is that we don't have a talented players in the secondary?

The defense was been terrible for years with or without injuries. All I see is the same damn coaches on that side of the ball. If they can't recruit, can't make ordinary players look good in their schemes then how exactly are we going to get better as a program?

I firmly believe that we would have had a pretty good defense last year if Brown had been the DC. With Jimmy and Jalil on the outside, a healthy Perkins and a pre-injury Major, we should have been a really good pass defense (mediocre against the run). This year, I think it was hopeless.

Do I blame Brown for the recruiting? Yes.

In 2006 when we were selling a new staff, he pulled in Jimmy Smith, Chap Brown and Jalil Brown. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Jonathan Hawkins was a holdover recruit from Barnett that year.) No complaints here. If only every year could be like that.

In 2007, we should have had a pretty good class based on the way the rest of recruiting was going. We landed Anthony Perkins, Anthony Wright and Lamont Smith (who never qualified). Perkins was a solid recruit, but that was not a good class. Wasn't Wright a really good athlete who had injuries, though? Maybe this one could have been good.

In 2008, I don't think you can put blame on Dan Hawkins for recruiting because it was a very highly ranked class and the rebuilding project was looking like it was on the right track. Only getting Vince Ewing, Steven Hicks, Patrick Mahnke and Paul Vigo that year is shameful. Circle 2008 as the biggest reason our secondary's in this mess.

In 2009, I think that this is where you need to have Hawkins shoulder some of the blame. We signed Olatoye and Orms as DBs. Better talent evaluation than 2008, but still "meh".

In 2010, Jered Bell committed in November so he was a Brown guy. Terrel Smith was a late signee, so Ambrose would get the credit there. Pugh transferred to Ash, too. Really tough year to recruit to CU since Hawkins was a lame duck. Getting Bell was a pretty good snag, considering.

In 2011, we signed Clark, Harrington, Harlos, Henderson and Washington. Too early to tell, but it sounds like this is at least a class that will be able to compete with the athletes in the Pac-12. I like the early returns on Henderson, too. He's done a nice job as a true frosh.

Going forward, I'm hoping the year under Stoops when Brown was forced to put more effort into recruiting became a habit. Especially with Embree having the same level of emphasis on recruiting, it should help. Brown will never be a great recruiter, but he is a good teacher. If we've got athletes with the right attitudes, he will develop them. I think the way that Polk has gotten so much better as the year has progressed is a testament to Brown (along with an unheralded true freshman being dependable at cornerback).

I do think there was a big difference between the top few guys and the 8th guy at corner. Give me a healthy Bell at one corner and a healthy Orms at nickel with Harrington and Sandersfeld backing them up at those spots. I guarantee that we'd be a much better secondary. Not good, because we'd still be way too young. But we'd be able to compete.
 
I firmly believe that we would have had a pretty good defense last year if Brown had been the DC. With Jimmy and Jalil on the outside, a healthy Perkins and a pre-injury Major, we should have been a really good pass defense (mediocre against the run). This year, I think it was hopeless.

Do I blame Brown for the recruiting? Yes.

In 2006 when we were selling a new staff, he pulled in Jimmy Smith, Chap Brown and Jalil Brown. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Jonathan Hawkins was a holdover recruit from Barnett that year.) No complaints here. If only every year could be like that.

In 2007, we should have had a pretty good class based on the way the rest of recruiting was going. We landed Anthony Perkins, Anthony Wright and Lamont Smith (who never qualified). Perkins was a solid recruit, but that was not a good class. Wasn't Wright a really good athlete who had injuries, though? Maybe this one could have been good.

In 2008, I don't think you can put blame on Dan Hawkins for recruiting because it was a very highly ranked class and the rebuilding project was looking like it was on the right track. Only getting Vince Ewing, Steven Hicks, Patrick Mahnke and Paul Vigo that year is shameful. Circle 2008 as the biggest reason our secondary's in this mess.

In 2009, I think that this is where you need to have Hawkins shoulder some of the blame. We signed Olatoye and Orms as DBs. Better talent evaluation than 2008, but still "meh".

In 2010, Jered Bell committed in November so he was a Brown guy. Terrel Smith was a late signee, so Ambrose would get the credit there. Pugh transferred to Ash, too. Really tough year to recruit to CU since Hawkins was a lame duck. Getting Bell was a pretty good snag, considering.

In 2011, we signed Clark, Harrington, Harlos, Henderson and Washington. Too early to tell, but it sounds like this is at least a class that will be able to compete with the athletes in the Pac-12. I like the early returns on Henderson, too. He's done a nice job as a true frosh.

Going forward, I'm hoping the year under Stoops when Brown was forced to put more effort into recruiting became a habit. Especially with Embree having the same level of emphasis on recruiting, it should help. Brown will never be a great recruiter, but he is a good teacher. If we've got athletes with the right attitudes, he will develop them. I think the way that Polk has gotten so much better as the year has progressed is a testament to Brown (along with an unheralded true freshman being dependable at cornerback).

I do think there was a big difference between the top few guys and the 8th guy at corner. Give me a healthy Bell at one corner and a healthy Orms at nickel with Harrington and Sandersfeld backing them up at those spots. I guarantee that we'd be a much better secondary. Not good, because we'd still be way too young. But we'd be able to compete.
Polk's improvement from total waste to occasional playmaker is pretty astounding. I was calling for his head after game 2.
 
He lit one of the UW receivers up this weekend and caused an incompletion - which I hadn't seen from him
 
Polk's improvement from total waste to occasional playmaker is pretty astounding. I was calling for his head after game 2.

Polk is getting better. Just wish we had more players at safety in general. Those guys are all mostly healthy and the depth is still scary.
 
If you would have told me before the season that nagging injuries to Brian Lockridge would change our starting lineup on defense...

(top that)
 
He lit one of the UW receivers up this weekend and caused an incompletion - which I hadn't seen from him

He lit up one of the Wazzou guys to stop a huge reception as well. He's progressing, but given the talent in the secondary it's forcing him to grow up faster. Still needs to be able to read the play better, but he's tenacious. He also needs to wrap up and not always go for the big hit.
 
One other thing I notices against Washington that tells a little about both Polk and Espy. I saw Espy on a very regular basis checking with Polk before plays. This tells me that Espy still doesn't have a grasp on the defenses which is no surprise (except to JimmyBuff who thinks he should be at all-pro level) and also that we are seeing a leadership role out of Polk. Not only is his play getting much better but he is also taking on other responsibilities.
 
I still want to see more out of Polk. He has the talent, but he is out of position too often.
 
He lit one of the UW receivers up this weekend and caused an incompletion - which I hadn't seen from him


I remember that play. My 13-year old son and I were laughing because he actually hit someone like that while they were within the boundaries of the playing field! Hope springs eternal!!!
 
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