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What's your pain threshold?

Tell me one area where the reputation of CU has made a significant step forward under Dr. Phil, show me some significant area of national recognition for CU that wouldn't exist if not for his leadership. Show me how CU is better off for having him at the helm of the Boulder campus. I don't see any. I see a school who's academic reputation is the same or declining compared to our peers, who's research reputation is stagnant or declining, who's quality of student body the same.
This 100x. Like it or not, the simple fact is that CU's academic rankings have been sliding his entire tenure (giving the devil his due, 2013 is the first year with an improvement, after slipping four years in a row).

But, honoring Sacky's plea to keep this on topic: I've already checked out. I couldn't have even told you what time the game kicked off last Saturday. I've attended at least one game a year for a long time, and my fall schedule revolved around CU football - much to my wife's annoyance. Now, not so much. If I remember to set the DVR for the game, I remember. If I don't, I don't. If my wife wants to make activity plans for fall weekends, she can pretty much count on me being available.

I haven't been to one of the DC watch parties in over 2 years, and the last full game I watched live was, um, I actually don't remember; maybe one of the games during water bottle's first season? I've watched parts of games live since then, but I haven't dedicated an uninterrupted 3-4 hours to CU football for over two years now. Instead I've made sure to DVR games that I think we have a chance in, and based on comments I read on allbuffs I either watch it or delete it...
 
Articles like the one about how far away we are in our facilities upgrades make me want to pull away from the program much more than the beatdowns on the field.

Getting our asses kicked right now, considering the last two coaching staffs, makes sense to me. I knew that this wouldn't be a 'flip the switch' sort of deal. But when I see that we can't even raise the money to get started on upgrading our hopelessly far behind facilties, it makes me just feel hopeless.

CU has only seen short stretches of complete mediocrity, much less the ineptitude we've seen lately - I fear now that this might be the new normal.
 
The Kansas game was turning point for me as far as anger and pain together. That was it. Since then, the anger began to wane; more quickly than the pain. The anger, I suppose, meant that I cared and had a vested internal interest in the program and the direction it was going, outcomes of games, etc... throwing ****, beating the dog. I think at that moment in time, a whisp of reality and true disappointment rapidly engulfed my foolish childhood notions of what CU football is/was to me and how it really innocently occupied my time when I was an impressionable adolescent sports fan/participant (even though they sucked then, as a kid growing up in the mountains, I was excited to first learn that there was a team called the "buffaloes", they played football, and they were from Colorado!)

Like many of you have said, there are other things to do on weekends when the Buffs are playing that appear to be more important now than they would have been when they were winning. In addition, for many of us who have moved away from Colorado, I think that it makes it even more difficult to follow/maintain interest in the Buffs right now; even though there are many ways to get "full coverage" from afar by the click of a mouse etc... The smells, the flatirons, Folsom, Ralphie, fans... For me the pain has endured, but has slowly turned to apathy, although never leave. The Buffs are part of who I am really and because of that, I am sad frankly. Its like an hour glass, at first you really cant see the level of the sand slowly creeping down, but the longer you keep it on end, the faster it appears to drop to the bottom and then poof, no more pain. That's what its been like for me and hopefully there will be a day when we can turn the hourglass over and begin again.
 
Tell me one area where the reputation of CU has made a significant step forward under Dr. Phil, show me some significant area of national recognition for CU that wouldn't exist if not for his leadership. Show me how CU is better off for having him at the helm of the Boulder campus. I don't see any. I see a school who's academic reputation is the same or declining compared to our peers, who's research reputation is stagnant or declining, who's quality of student body the same.
What can't be underestimated is the impact of the decline in state dollars coming to CU over the last decade. Once over 10% of the budget (>$2B) came from the state legislature, now it's under 3% and falling. Not many other state schools have had to grapple with this challenge. CU has navigated these waters relatively well, even having a surplus a few years ago. Right or wrong, this is the state of ongoing emergency where CU's head has been in for a long time, and right or wrong, I think that Dr. Phil gets alot of credit for the Boulder campus remaining in an overall state of growth and prosperity (mostly thanks to a higher % of out-of-state and international students).

Now overlap this situation with the co$tly failures within the AD, and you know why we are broke and unable to write big checks to get out fast. We need big time private money, period.

As to the topic, my pain threshold is tested weekly, but I'm still here and going to games and never missing a minute of my Buffs, so it will never be too painful to withstand the beatings while I wait for our eventual success.
 
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Here we are, in year eight of God Awful football. There really isn't any relief in sight. The best we can hope for, IMO, is to be somewhat competitive by 2015.

I have to be honest and say my tolerance is starting to run out. I don't know if I can put up with another two or three years of terrible football. There are other things I could be doing. Supporting the Buffs football team is a time consuming and expensive labor of love. I am starting to feel like my energy might be better spent on other endeavors.

obviously, we are all gluttons for punishment or we wouldn't be here. What is your limit? At what point do you say "enough"? For me, I think I have come to the conclusion that I'm just waiting for an excuse to quit going. Getting hassled by the CU PD at the tailgate could very well be the last straw for me. I don't even know for sure that will happen, but I've run through the scenario in my head several times. Stuff like that doesn't happen at places that place value in their football program. I'm just waiting for the next example.

I think you question (at least the way I took it) was aimed at those fans who go to the games. After considering it further I wanted to expand on a few things.

So some of the reasons that are impacting my decision.

  • Poor product on the field. No further discussion needed.
  • Game day experience has lost a lot of excitement
    [*=2]Smaller crowds
    [*=2]Being Hassled during the tailgates.
    [*=2]Nobody really expects to win.
    [*=2]Concessions suck.

  • Game times (this may does not impact others but it does me). One of the consequences of the PAC12 is crummy game times. I miss the 1 PM kickoffs where I could be home in the evening to do something else. A 3:30 game time shoots the whole day.

Overall I am just tired and have come to the conclusion that I will enjoy having the time available for other things.

I will always be a CU fan but I am moving to be a casual fan.
 
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I watched the entire game - not turning it until the clock ran out - Saturday. I am planning on taking my 10-month old to the game this Saturday. I will never stop being a more-than-casual CU fan. I am sad but I will never give up on the program.
 
Articles like the one about how far away we are in our facilities upgrades make me want to pull away from the program much more than the beatdowns on the field.

Getting our asses kicked right now, considering the last two coaching staffs, makes sense to me. I knew that this wouldn't be a 'flip the switch' sort of deal. But when I see that we can't even raise the money to get started on upgrading our hopelessly far behind facilties, it makes me just feel hopeless.

CU has only seen short stretches of complete mediocrity, much less the ineptitude we've seen lately - I fear now that this might be the new normal.
Couldn't agree more. The lack of ability to raise funds and abject neglect by the admin over the last 20 years is more depressing than the routine clock-cleanings. I too fear this is the new normal.
 
What can't be underestimated is the impact of the decline in state dollars coming to CU over the last decade. Once over 10% of the budget (>$2B) came from the state legislature, now it's under 3% and falling. Not many other state schools have had to grapple with this challenge. CU has navigated these waters relatively well, even having a surplus a few years ago. Right or wrong, this is the state of ongoing emergency where CU's head has been in for a long time, and right or wrong, I think that Dr. Phil gets alot of credit for the Boulder campus remaining in an overall state of growth and prosperity (mostly thanks to a higher % of out-of-state and international students).

Now overlap this situation with the co$tly failures within the AD, and you know why we are broke and unable to write big checks to get out fast. We need big time private money, period.

As to the topic, my pain threshold is tested weekly, but I'm still here and going to games and never missing a minute of my Buffs, so it will never be too painful to withstand the beatings while I wait for our eventual success.

I credit Bruce Benson for navigating the issue of declining state funding. His strategy involved focusing on federal money in the form of research grants. The fed dollars have gone a long way towards building the medical campus, JILA, and other bioscience, physics and engineering structures on all campus locations. And everybody knows that government grant writing does not have a premium on athletic performance. The government grant terms are not going to allow for dollars earmarked to send a probe to Mars be used for athletic facilities investments.

The issue is Federal money is not necessarily any more reliable in the long run as state money. The recent sequestration and government shutdown around the debt ceiling is a pretty good signal that those universities who are reliant upon government dollars ought to think about diversifying their revenue sources into the private sector.. Going after research grants by the likes of ConocoPhillips and BP become more important to CU to sustain the research that is critical to CU's academic reputation. CU also has to exploit more funding opportunities from small business and alumni to diversify and hedge risks around tightening government revenue streams.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that CU's leadership has known for years that the government and tuition are the two most important things to make payroll. For as long as that was the case, the leadership of CU had business reasons to de-emphasize football. During the first six years 2005-2011 of the Benson administration, there was not the same short-term economic incentive to go all in on the football arms race.

But, like Rip Van Winkle, Bruce Benson finally woke up to the reality that the athletic department really is the front porch of the university when it comes to individual and small business fundraising. I assert that it is out of economic necessity that Benson and his lapdog DiStefano finally came around to the importance of CU athletics to the overall health of CU. The admin are not all of a sudden interested in the success of CU football because they are fans of football. No, they came around to this recent change of heart because there is an increasing need to capture donations tied to the purse strings of fans who are athletically oriented. I suspect that if government funding was looking like a reliable long term gravy train, then BB and PS would have been content to let the CUAD drift longer than they already did.

This is a long winded way of saying that the new-found desire to pay market rate salaries for MacIntyre and George is a simple business decision, and not some longstanding heartfelt love of building a football team that really must compete for a conference championship in the Rose Bowl. I don't believe that either BB or PS really love football anymore now than they did in 2009, when Dan Hawkins was extended for year 5.

I also fear that if DiStefano were left to his own judgement, he would be prone to use the current AD debt, the escalating costs associated with salary, the declining revenue tied to falling attendance, and the lack of DirecTV revenue flowing through the P12 Network as a business decision. Heaven forbid, if George can't dig the AD out of debt and MacIntyre fails to dig CU out of the P12 cellar, then would he consider going the University of Chicago route and move to close things down? Since his state of the campus speeches emphasize fiscal discipline above athletic success, I suspect he might be the kind of leader who actually might take rock bottom and turn it into a dinosaur like 420 and Mall Crawl.


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a guy at work who follows a team that has been relevant more recently than the Buffs put it pretty succintly: "your hardcore fans are graying and you aren't replacing them with new, younger ones."

that left a mark.
 
More than a decade of adding very few young fans, and subtracting others at the same time. Very bad situation.


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Fortunately we have basketball which is something students feel attached to so hopefully when football is back the pride will transfer to both, and not just basketball.
 
What can't be underestimated is the impact of the decline in state dollars coming to CU over the last decade. Once over 10% of the budget (>$2B) came from the state legislature, now it's under 3% and falling. Not many other state schools have had to grapple with this challenge. CU has navigated these waters relatively well, even having a surplus a few years ago. Right or wrong, this is the state of ongoing emergency where CU's head has been in for a long time, and right or wrong, I think that Dr. Phil gets alot of credit for the Boulder campus remaining in an overall state of growth and prosperity (mostly thanks to a higher % of out-of-state and international students).

Not to get too off topic, but I had professors who would express the opinion that CU should go private in order to avert the funding crisis. How do you think this would change fundraising efforts and the AD in general? With all of the out-of-state and international students CU already attracts, it would seem like an easy transition.
 
Ok, the more I think about this topic, the more question I have with the PAIN. I think what causes more pain or at least as much pain then the regular beat downs is this. I am so tired of not hearing or seeing anything from our AD and school in general. It is like football is nothing to them. We are suppose to be good soldiers, show up to the game and be happy about it all. I see no vision, no goal and no respect for those of us that have been here for the "long haul". The administration is a ghost, you don't see them or hear from them. There needs to be a goal. We will win a conference championship and build to that. CU does nothing.
 
Ok, the more I think about this topic, the more question I have with the PAIN. I think what causes more pain or at least as much pain then the regular beat downs is this. I am so tired of not hearing or seeing anything from our AD and school in general. It is like football is nothing to them. We are suppose to be good soldiers, show up to the game and be happy about it all. I see no vision, no goal and no respect for those of us that have been here for the "long haul". The administration is a ghost, you don't see them or hear from them. There needs to be a goal. We will win a conference championship and build to that. CU does nothing.

I agree with this...I often wonder does anyone care up there.
 
Ok, the more I think about this topic, the more question I have with the PAIN. I think what causes more pain or at least as much pain then the regular beat downs is this. I am so tired of not hearing or seeing anything from our AD and school in general. It is like football is nothing to them. We are suppose to be good soldiers, show up to the game and be happy about it all. I see no vision, no goal and no respect for those of us that have been here for the "long haul". The administration is a ghost, you don't see them or hear from them. There needs to be a goal. We will win a conference championship and build to that. CU does nothing.
exactly.
 
Not to get too off topic, but I had professors who would express the opinion that CU should go private in order to avert the funding crisis. How do you think this would change fundraising efforts and the AD in general? With all of the out-of-state and international students CU already attracts, it would seem like an easy transition.

Except for the fact that the State of Colorado owns all the land, all of the buildings, all of the fixtures within the buildings, etc. and employs all of the employees, professors, etc.




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Except for the fact that the State of Colorado owns all the land, all of the buildings, all of the fixtures within the buildings, etc. and employs all of the employees, professors, etc.




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don't we have like a 1,000 year lease for $1 or something like they did at Fitz?
 
I am so upset about how we have fallen so far, for so long, with no one taking any responsibility. For so long the facilities stagnated even while the team was doing okay, now we are both far behind and bad, and it is embarrassing.

To me, the fundraising problem won't be fixed until people (more than one) at the top say "How the hell did we, the University of Colorado, let ourselves go from national champions and one-time top notch facilities, and regular league champion contenders, then plummet to league bottom feeders in both performance and facilities. Well, it was on my watch so I'm responsible." Then either resign or say "I'm mad it happened while I'm in charge and I'm not quitting until I get it fixed".

Why would you donate when no one has taken any responsibility for letting this long, long fall happen in the first place?

I am in this camp. This is about failed leadership. The "scandal" and the state-funding stuff didn't help but ultimately this falls squarely on the shoulders of the administration. I agree that they should take responsibility. It's great that President Benson is putting his money where his mouth is and I believe Rick George is the right guy. What they really need right now is to tell DiStephano to stay away from football altogether, Benson needs to advocate for debt forgiveness to the Athletic Department and they need to unvail the shiny plan to build Pac-12 competitive facilities along with a fundraising drive that is appropriately resourced. They really need a $50MM + donor or donors to kick this off. Until these things happen we will continue to beat our heads against the wall. Also, we need to get some full-grown men up front.
 
Well until last season, I missed zero home games since 2006. Last year I chose to miss one or two. Can't remember how many, which ones, or why. Doesn't matter I guess.

This year I have skipped one. Might do another, who knows. I still care, but am not devoted like I've been my entire life before this.
 
Ok, the more I think about this topic, the more question I have with the PAIN. I think what causes more pain or at least as much pain then the regular beat downs is this. I am so tired of not hearing or seeing anything from our AD and school in general. It is like football is nothing to them. We are suppose to be good soldiers, show up to the game and be happy about it all. I see no vision, no goal and no respect for those of us that have been here for the "long haul". The administration is a ghost, you don't see them or hear from them. There needs to be a goal. We will win a conference championship and build to that. CU does nothing.

They have replaced BOTH the head coach and athletic director within a year, given Mike Mac a contract that includes an out if progress isn't made on facilities, and informed the new AD that his top priority is to fund raise and re-establish a relationship with major donors. Also, it appears admissions is loosening its stance on JC transfers to help get some immediate help in here. This is pretty darn good progress from where we were at this point last year. The wheels are in motion to get this program going in the right direction, it just takes time. Remain clam and back away from the ledge.
 
They have replaced BOTH the head coach and athletic director within a year, given Mike Mac a contract that includes an out if progress isn't made on facilities, and informed the new AD that his top priority is to fund raise and re-establish a relationship with major donors. Also, it appears admissions is loosening its stance on JC transfers to help get some immediate help in here. This is pretty darn good progress from where we were at this point last year. The wheels are in motion to get this program going in the right direction, it just takes time. Remain clam and back away from the ledge.
Shhhh the past is the only thing that matters. The evidence from the admin recently means nothing!
 
a guy at work who follows a team that has been relevant more recently than the Buffs put it pretty succintly: "your hardcore fans are graying and you aren't replacing them with new, younger ones."

that left a mark.


I understand what he's saying but if you win, people pay attention. I see more Oregon stuff in Colorado right now than I do CSU & you cannot tell me there's more Duck grads here than Rams... casual fans will jump on the bandwagon so fast when we start winning again. Plus, even with Folsom's faults, Boulder is a pretty awesome place to see a college football game.
 
Talked to a friend yesterday about this, kind of. I knew it was going to be a rough season last off season, that we would only win 3 or 4, and that would be a relative successs. I knew I needed to have patience and to avoid pointing fingers or getting frustrated. But when you are watching each game and watching the season week to week, it is almost impossible to retain that wisdom from the summer.

Logically, we know that the team lacks talent at every position. logically, we know it cannot and will not turn around in one season. Logically, we know the coaches are doing a good job but can only do so much. But passionately, we don't accept those excuses and just want to have a good team NOW.

Unfortunately, we also need to know logically that next year is going to be rough. look at the schedule. We play the teams we are closer to talent wise away and we play teams that are still going to be out of reach at home. It is going to be another long season, and even though I logically know that it is what it is, I will probably get getting pissed and point my finger at this play call or that player, etc.

If you want to stay sane, ignore Buff football until 2015. Hopefully with a facilities announcement, some solid recruits, and jucos helping for a couple years we can at least compete for a bowl game.
 
CU just needs to prime the pump and throw some cash at key recruits. Wake up! Forget spending hundreds of millions on facilities when you can buy someone a car. Paying recruits is chump change. Even Oregon does it blatantly, even with all of their resources. Get a 5* left tackle, a 5* dual threat QB, and a 4-5* defensive end and you are in business. Get the momentum going and the thing feeds on itself. Lock down the state recruiting and before you know it, you're in legit bowl playing on TV.
 
CU just needs to prime the pump and throw some cash at key recruits. Wake up! Forget spending hundreds of millions on facilities when you can buy someone a car. Paying recruits is chump change. Even Oregon does it blatantly, even with all of their resources. Get a 5* left tackle, a 5* dual threat QB, and a 4-5* defensive end and you are in business. Get the momentum going and the thing feeds on itself. Lock down the state recruiting and before you know it, you're in legit bowl playing on TV.

Going after 5* guys with SEC offers? They're already getting car offers. We'd have to do better than that.
 
Going after 5* guys with SEC offers? They're already getting car offers. We'd have to do better than that.
Well, some of those schools already have the pump primed. Plenty of guys line up to play at Bama now. Ticket to the NFL. Plenty of talent out there to be had for a few bucks. Boulder location is gravy. Waco?
 
I didn't draw it up this way, but I think last year was my breaking point. I've attended virtually all CU home games from 2002-2012, and it stopped being fun last year. I went to the CSU game this year, and am probably not going to see a game at Folsom this year. For the first time in as long as I can remember, I didn't even know who we were playing until gameday when we played ASU earlier this year. I am the poster boy for apathy. It's just too painful.
 
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